Matthew: Hello cats and kittens and non-binary pals both with and without your mittens. I am Matthew, I’m joined once again by Will and Steve, the comic book experts, the Marvel comic experts specifically, and we were talking about that all time popular, everyone knows their comic books, everyone has all their graphic novels character who has finally come to the MCU screen, Wonder Man. Now if you’re sitting there going, oh my gosh, I’m so glad we finally have a Wonder Man TV show, I hope both of you find each other. If you’re sitting there going, wait a minute, who is Wonder Man and why is there a TV show about him? Check out the episode we put out two days ago.
If you’re thinking, oh my gosh, Wonder Man, I didn’t really know what was going on or I knew a little bit what was going on, but this was an interesting show and now I want to talk about it. Now you found the right place. This is the podcast for you. Or if you didn’t watch the show and for some reason you don’t want to watch the show but you want to know about it, this is also the podcast for you. So honestly, I think this is one of the best things Marvel has made in a long time. I would hit pause, watch it, and then of course come back. But that’s just me. Steve, Will, what do you all think? What do you think of the show overall?
Will: I had a good time. I liked it. Steve and I did a quick note check with each other on how we felt about it overall. And I think mostly positive. I feel like the first half I liked better than the second half. I think the second half got a little muddy a little bit here and there. And then the kind of semi-timeskip at the end was a funny narrative decision. But no, I had a good time. I love this down-to-earth, grounded character study that the MCU is able to do with their Disney Plus shows.
Steve: Yeah. I thought Simon was an excellent character. And I thought that, and Trevor Slattery, Ben Kingsley, steals every scene that he’s in. And so I think the show really shined every moment that the two of them were on the screen together. There was other stuff that was up and down for me about the show. But when you’ve got a show where you just want to watch the two characters interact, then you’ve got something that I’m going to enjoy.
Matthew: Yeah, I think that’s really well put. And I definitely think this felt like it had the lowest stakes of almost anything we’ve seen from the MCU a long time. And that both, I really appreciated that because it didn’t feel like it was okay.
Once again, the whole world is under threat. But also, I never felt like the stakes weren’t incredibly high for the characters who I was invested in. And to me, that’s a really important part of storytelling that, yeah, I mean, there’s a comic book, superhero stories. Sometimes the whole world should get threat. Sometimes the whole city should get threat.
Sometimes there should be some big massive threat. But when you have to keep going to that well again and again, it dries out. And I really like seeing it. They could go to this very different perspective and it’d still be a great story. Absolutely. Before we jump too much further, can one of you give a brief focus on brief summary of the story? What happens in these eight episodes?
Steve: Yeah, I’m better at brief than Wilson. So let me give this one a try. So Simon Williams is, he’s a struggling actor who really hasn’t ever landed any role of consequence. He also has superpowers, which he needs to keep secret because of a large history of liability. And this is kind of like building off of what we’ve seen in Marvel about superpowers are as they enter daily life, they create conflicts with the world that we know.
And so Simon, he gets contacted by, or he meets, he thinks that it’s a coincidence. Trevor Slattery, who MCU fans may know as the Mandarin, but is really just an actor. He gets acting lessons from them. They’re going out for the same role, or sorry, for roles in the same movie, which is an adaptation of Wonder Man, which was a movie that he loved as a kid. And this show, meanwhile, Trevor Slattery is keeping tabs on him for damage control.
And so it is about Wonder Man, about Simon’s journey, self-discovery and learning to become a good actor, trying to land this role, ultimately getting it, and sort of the way that that changes his life and his relationship with Trevor as it evolves throughout the story. Yeah.
Matthew: Yeah, I think that’s a good summary. And there is a little bit of a MCU-style story about superheroes, and that these people from damage control, which is something we’ve learned about already in the MCU, are coming after him. But really it’s much more about this personal story, and when the biggest way that him having superpowers manifests, him having superpowers manifests, is this secret that he feels like he has to keep.
And in that way, I feel like, well, yes, superpowers don’t exist in our own world. You know, make him gay, make him trans, make him like, there are so many things that I think throughout history, actors have had to keep secret, to some extent or another.
Steve: I definitely thought that the scene that he meets up with his ex-girlfriend in the bar, and she’s like, I know your secret, it’s okay. I thought, and then they talk around at the whole time, I definitely thought that at the end of the scene, she was going to be like, I know you’re gay. Yeah.
Matthew: Yeah, well, it was that scene, and then also there’s a great scene with him and Travis, Trevor, I mean, was Trevor’s talking about like, yeah, you have to keep it secret and that sucks, but use that, use that power. And it, I felt, yeah, they never quite make it explicit, although later, later, Trevor definitely does see exactly what it is. But in both cases, I felt like this is very intentionally being written as this could be the metaphor, although it’s superpowers in this case, but it could be these other things that have happened in real life for sure.
Yeah, absolutely. And let’s talk for a minute about why it is that superpowers specifically have to be kept secret in Hollywood. Because obviously this is a world where the Avengers exist, Captain America, you know, as we see at one point, because they see it, like, what’s the name of the musical that’s so big, Rogers, you know, Rogers is a big musical. Yeah. But we have a rule that people can’t be super, have superpowers if they are in Hollywood. Why is that? The doorman clause.
Steve: Yes, it’s a liability concern, which as somebody who’s written the comic book about insurance agents, I love. Yeah.
Will: Yeah. Holy cow, I did not see that one coming. And the fact that they did a whole episode kind of dedicated to where that’s coming from. So because in episode three, they do a name drop of like DeMar Dormand Davis.
Matthew: Now that’s not a name that’s ever been said in Marvel Comics, is it?
Will: Oh, yeah. Oh, no, it’s a character.
Matthew: Is he? Okay, so tell me about that.
Will: So he’s in the comics, he’s a mutant, but he’s part of the Great Lakes Avengers, which are kind of just like this joke Avengers team. Yeah. Consistency of people with powers that aren’t that great or are knockoff versions of established strong character. Like, there’s a flat man. No, no, flat man.
Steve: Yeah, yeah. Who is a knockoff of Mr. Fantastic. If you remember from the She-Hulk show, Mr. Immortal, the guy who is also a member of the same team. Also Squirrel Girl, who you
Will: blew up and almost got her own show. But yeah. Dormand was on that team in the comics again and mutant. And in this they show that he got like toxic waste from rocks on.
Steve: But yeah, he basically manages to become a dwarf.
Matthew: One at a time, one at a time.
Will: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was just, Dormand is a really originally named guy because he can go up to a wall and basically he can become a portal through that wall. And so you just walk through him and he’s a portable door. He is Dormand. And so here in the fourth episode of Wonder Man, you get to see, you get introduced to D’Amarr Davis, Dormand. He comes across these powers and he gets hired by Josh Gad of all people. That was great. I was thinking of Josh Gad when I’m like, can Josh Gad no longer be cast as a character on the MCU?
Matthew: I did comment to my spouse when we saw, because at the end of the episode he basically tries to use Dormand as a portal. Something goes wrong. Dormand like sneezes at the time or something. And then Josh Gad just gets stuck in there.
Will: Yeah, he’s hung over and gets trapped in this door dimension. Right.
Matthew: And I did comment to my spouse who I was watching with. So does he now check off Josh Gad? He will have to return. And he didn’t. I think he’s going to be returning at some point later in some show. But yeah, I thought it was such a brilliant, first of all, the whole thing is just a very, it’s a joke and it’s played for laughs, but it’s also played seriously. It’s like interesting story of, again, the metaphor, someone who becomes famous in Hollywood because they’re a one trick pony. And then kind of wants to do more. And also just what happens when the novelty that wears off, you know, when he starts having trouble getting more jobs because it’s not cool and interesting anymore. And so it’s a fun little story. But then also it creates this idea of Josh Gad just disappeared.
And now who do you sue about that? Like this is a part, you know, and so the idea that therefore they say across the board, everyone has to sign something saying they don’t have superpowers or else they’re gone. I just thought it was so brilliant.
Steve: Yeah, absolutely. And if Wonder Man is a C-lister in the comics, doorman is a Z-lister, right? Like he is.
Will: Yeah, nobody knows.
Steve: He’s a punchline. He’s comic relief. He, you know, they’ll put him in an issue once every couple of years. But he’s, yeah. So that it’s fun to see, you know, it’s a fun use of just having this massive backlog of stories spanning decades and all of these hundreds of characters that you can pull from is that you can bring out somebody like DeMar Davis. And superpowers and cool. I got somebody. That’s fun.
Matthew: And this does seem the perfect way to do that because I’m guessing for you two, it was exciting to hear that name and be like, oh, I know that character. Whereas for me, I didn’t feel like I was missing anything because I’d never heard of him before. You know, it was a brand. I knew everything I needed to know for this story.
Will: Yeah, totally. Yeah, it’s it’s it’s it is one of my favorite things about being the nerd. That knows all the source material and just like seeing things show up on screen. Yeah, they finally brought that over. Oh, they finally did this. Oh, they’re referencing this storyline. That’s just so much fun.
Matthew: So within this in the comics, the character is an actor, right? That’s something they create for this. DeMar.
Will: No. Yeah. Okay.
Matthew: No, I am curious. I am curious what’s going to happen. This is a rule in Hollywood. We’ve not learned if the international film community has this because we do know of another superhero who is also an actor.
Yeah, can go can go from the tunnels played by command on Johnny. I’m guessing he’s pretty deeply hidden and also Bollywood is really nuts. So it might have not quite same rules and stuff like that. But interesting question to explore.
Will: Well, they said in so any tunnels, he is always just his own son. Like he’s he’s he’s he’s a legacy actor and just nepotism redefined. Right. And he’s he’s like the fourth in his generation or whatever. Yeah. It’s just hilarious that Bollywood was just like, yeah, that makes sense.
Steve: Speaking of command on Johnny. The news just came out that he is going to be starring in the adaptation of one of my favorite comics of all time sex criminals just got ordered for a series. No. Yeah.
Matthew: That does not sound like Stan Lee. So I’m guessing this is not a Marvel show. No, it is not. No. Okay.
Will: Oh my gosh, no way. Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. Yeah. If this ends up coming out, I’m going to be so stoked.
Matthew: I love that actor. So getting back to this though, because obviously, I mean, there’s a lot of shows out there that are doing reviews of this. I think we all enjoyed it.
And I definitely recommend people watch it. But I do want to talk about some of the questions that come up with it. And so let’s start here because the idea of like one of the things I think is often interesting is that when when superhero shows are a metaphor for things in our own world. Often there’s a difference because like, as an example, you know, if being born a mutant is kind of a metaphor for being born, you know, a race that’s being oppressed or gay or anything like that. On the one hand, you’re, you’re talking about groups that are oppressed because of simple bigotry and stupidity. The idea that people of a different race or different sexuality are inherently threatening is nonsense. The idea that people who have superpowers that are often quite lethal are threatening has some more basis in reality. And again, I think most of us are still like that. These are the good reasons to oppress them, but it is, it makes it more of a question in the same way. I think, you know, a good thinking person is going to say rules about you have to be this kind of person or that kind of person. You can’t have this kind of secret to be an actor in Hollywood are nuts.
But they do present the situation where a person had a superpower and it caused a huge problem in Hollywood. What do you think of the rule? Like what, you know, we were talking last time about like, what adjustments do you make or do you not make? Does that does the doorman rule make sense? Does it is it going too far? Should there be nothing like this? What do you all think?
Steve: I mean, I don’t think him having superpowers caused the problem. I think him not knowing how to control or use his superpowers very well caused the problem. And so, yeah, it’s, you know, discrimination, restriction of a type of person or characteristic of a person rather than certain actions or, you know, I could see this being very realistic just because, like you said, Josh Gad disappears and they don’t know who to sue. Somebody has to somebody has to be responsible. Somebody has to be sued. But it’s just it’s so new and
Matthew: it’s so yeah, yeah, yeah, they don’t know what to do about it. And so they go heavy handed and that seems incredibly realistic. And would this hold up in court? No, but everybody too bigoted and scared to really try to test it also. Yeah, yes.
Will: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even you look at all these congressional hearings about like anything based on the internet. And they’re just fumbling over themselves and those questions. Oh, yeah. It’s so it’s so sad to be like, well, these are the people that are making the laws in our country. Cool. So it was a series of tubes.
Matthew: Mm hmm. That was how a senator described the internet.
Steve: Yeah, it’s where you just put stuff. Yeah.
Will: Right. It’s like, dude, like, I so yeah, I imagine. An extreme reaction to that because like, but I also think of, you know, it’s a shame that someone who can float six inches off of the ground as their superpower is going to get the same discrimination in Hollywood is going to get the same discrimination as someone with electric powers that could literally fry somebody on accident. Right. Like, these are not the same, but in the in the eyes of this of this clause, they are right. And that’s the part that sucks that I don’t like.
Matthew: There’s a couple things I want to talk about here, but where you just went, I think it’s actually a really good start because it also gets into the question of what is a superpower as opposed to just what are the outer limits of the human experience because in a purely biological sense, Michael Phelps is an X man. Like Michael Phelps is a genetic mutation of humanity that he has a very, very particular thing that caused his lungs to develop.
And I love his lungs for the way he processes. Everything. Yeah. I mean, it’s also his wingspan arms.
Yeah. But like literally, he processes oxygen in different ways than most humans, which allows him to hold his breath longer than most humans and allows him to stay strong. While almost out of breath, much longer than most humans, which allows him to swim better than most humans. You know, and it is like that is evolution. Like there’s a genetic mutation involved there somewhere. Would he I don’t think anyone would say he has superpowers because we don’t think of that in our world, but like the person who can levitate six inches off the ground or maybe one inch.
Is that kind of the Michael Phelps or is that where do we draw that line? You know, I think that’s that’s one of the first questions is what is a superpower?
Steve: Yeah, yeah, no, these and these are the types of things that if you if it went into this whole legal challenge, like this is what the law is set to to pick apart. I would love to see a she-hulk episode where, you know, they have to argue and set a precedent around this.
Matthew: Oh, that’s great. Is she hook or I don’t really love the new daredevil. But yeah, either one of those lawyers getting involved. Yeah. You’re interesting. And also, Steve, to go back to two things you had said, first of all, the secrecy, I think is such an important part because, again, they’re, you know, super powers don’t really exist. But the idea of people who had to keep parts of themselves secret for a long time, and therefore probably like never actually got to talk to people in community, never got to and and became, you know, it became more dangerous to them or to others, you know, especially I’m thinking of people who might have suspected early on in HIV AIDS that they they were positive. But if you got a pot, if you got yourself tested, there’s now a record that you have it. And then, you know, in the 80s and most of the 90s still, there’s an awful lot of things you you would be immediately barred from if you tested positive for HIV. The number of stories of kids who start to think they might be gay or queer or trans and don’t think they can talk to anybody about it.
And guess what? Now they’re getting groomed by the one person who because they go to the parts of the internet where they can talk to people about it, which I think the whole Anakin Palpatine story is very much a model of, you know. So yeah, I think that that point about the secrecy is so important.
Steve: Yes, absolutely. And it’s also from the genre convention, getting into, you know, the, the parts of the superhero story that we use and we don’t use and how it’s sort of how that genre is evolving. You know, we, from the beginning of the MCU, we really left the idea of the secret identity and the dust, you know, that, that, yeah, Iron Man just right out of the gate just. Press conference. Yeah, I’m Iron Man.
Matthew: Yeah, you can’t watch movies just saying it.
Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we’ve had really, it’s such a genre convention for superheroes that there’s a secret identity and outside of like Spider-Man, it’s been largely absent from the MCU. And now we’re seeing it from the other, other side of things where you, it’s not the superhero who’s keeping their civilian identity secret. It’s the civilian who’s keeping their superpower secret. Right. And I think that’s a really interesting inversion. Yeah.
Matthew: And the other thing I think I picked up on what you were saying before was this whole idea of the legal challenge because they didn’t go into much detail about this, but I noticed that they said that this was something the movie industry did voluntarily, like they did it themselves. And that is again part of a real history. You know, if you think about things like the movie rating system that we still have, the Hayes Code for comic books and stuff like that. A lot of the McCarthy time like censorship limitations. These are a lot of things that maybe in the fifties could have gotten away with because of courts. But like today, and any court that really is looking at the Constitution would never stand up like the, if the government tried to impose this movie rating system, you know, first amendment challenges at the wazoo. What if the movie industry doesn’t voluntarily, then it’s, you know, well, that’s this is a voluntary thing. They don’t have to do this. And I like that they present this doorman rule exactly the same way. Because you’re right. Like you could have super super powered people as a collective class sue and say, Hey, wait, this is not bad. Yeah, totally.
Will: I think of the savings if you had super powered people on your stage crew to like move things. I like to build your sets, right?
Matthew: Or stuntmen. Like if I was an actual stuntman in Hollywood, I might get my union to sue to be like, what do you mean? I have to learn how to wear the fire retardant suit in the exact right way. And now you’re telling me this guy is just actually retarded to fire. That’s not that.
Steve: That is how Simon Williams in the comics got his start as an actor. He was a stuntman first and it was and then he’s like, Oh, you can be an actor and do all your own stunts. Let’s put you, you know, put your face on the camera. I love that.
Will: Imagine hiring a J. You hire one Jamie Madrox and you have an entire stage crew is ready to go. It’s cost savings, man. But with this clause, it’s just not going to happen.
Matthew: Well, and here’s where I do love. Like I wish there was some more exploration of this side of things. And this is a bit cynical, but I don’t disagree with it.
I appreciate that in the boys, they kind of recognize, okay, in legit in kind of like traditional Hollywood, all that’s true, but really, where is it all going to happen in porn? You know, you got a person make five replicas of the same same. Look, they’re going to run a train like that’s just going to be what works, you know. So by the way, you first, this is not a family friendly show as I just just indicated that conversation.
Oh, man. So let’s talk about the character of Trevor a bit because, you know, he starts out in the first episode. We really think he’s here to be a friend and he’s kind of like, you know, turned, you know, turned into leaf and become this new person, which, which we saw in Shang-Chi. Then of course, at the end of episode one, we find out, no, he’s working for damage control. And then later through flashbacks, we find out that he’s doing it kind of under duress and are the threat of going to jail. And eventually, of course, he winds up, you know, turning his back on damage control and going so far as to become the Mandarin again. And go to jail specifically to protect his friend Simon. What did you think of that whole plot line and kind of where his character went?
Will: Spectacular. Yeah, it was, it’s one of those things where it’s like, is he playing me because he’s such a fantastic actor like Ben Kingsley won but also Trevor Slattery. Like, I, I, all the scenes where he would have his normal, his normal talking voice and then, and then like the scene, scene shifts and he drops his voice and he starts doing whatever character he’s going to play for the, for whatever role. And you’re like, oh my God, it’s so much fun to watch him like try for his own role, but at the same time be a mentor to Simon and figure out that balance between the two. And like, one of the scenes that stands out to me the most is at the end when Simon is is confronting him about the double cross basically. And like, I’m so glad it didn’t do your classic like explode each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that’s what the rom-com type stuff. But then with when Trevor was just like, and I was like, well, how are you going to fix it? And Trevor’s just like, I don’t know.
And he’s like slamming his fists out of like old man frustration. Um, that, that I picture that so much when I think of this show of just him, just so frustrated with like, how do I get this kid that I have become such a close mentor to out of the mess that I put him in. Um, and I, I loved that one scene so much. And yeah, he was, he was, he was a wonderful character to watch more so than Simon in, in a lot of scenes.
Steve: I think also you could really argue he’s the real main character of the show because he has, he has the real like set of moral decisions to make. He, he’s the one who is forced with, uh, sort of like the necessity to change. And, uh, and is making the sort of decisions that drive the plot along. He starts off as this, you know, kind of false staff, coward, right? Uh, and it’s just his cowardice is laudable. It’s played for laughs.
It’s very fun. We empathize when he’s, you know, sitting across from damage control and they’re like, you know, we could do this the easy way, or we can do this, you know, you can, you can work with us or you can go to jail or you can do. And he’s like, uh, the other thing, the not jail thing.
I don’t know what it is. Um, it’s just, it’s great. And, and he’s just very compelling, uh, in that role and being able to kind of, um, and yeah, he’s a good actor. He’s, uh, uh, he’s playing an actor who is a good actor. And, um, and, and just being, um, yeah, and having to go through this, I thought that we would see a little more of it in Shang-Chi, but confronting this sort of cowardice and, and being in the role where he does have to make moral choices and does have to stand up and, and, um, that was, that was, uh, that’s fun to watch. Cause he, the, the, the performance, the personality was strong enough that I wanted to see him go through his arc and his transformation.
Matthew: No, I think you’re right. I think even that moment that you said is kind of played for laughs of the, oh, no, choice B, choice B. I will definitely not go to prison.
I think he’s also very, you know, illuminating because what it’s kind of saying also is he, he is completely self-focused in that moment. And the idea of, okay, is there a line that you won’t cross in order to cover your own ass? He doesn’t even want to, he doesn’t want to fear what the line is.
He will happily cross it, you know, and, and, and, and you understand, but like that this is not a person who starts out with a deep moral principle, but by the end he definitely does. And, you know, that’s not a new story. Not, you can say no, no story is new, but like the story of the person who starts out ready to sacrifice our hero for their own gain comes to realize that no, they have, you know, pretended to be their friend, but now has really become their friend or their lover or whatever it is.
And now is willing to sacrifice themselves to protect that person. We’ve seen that a lot, but I felt like this was a really kind of new take on it. You know, in ways you guys are describing, like it’s not, it’s not quite the classic story we know, but it also is just a really good story. And having it here be between good friends and people who are kind of professional in a lot of ways. I mean, I think they form a friendship, but it’s more just that they’re professional colleagues, like these, they haven’t had long talks about their romantic past. They haven’t bonded about other things. They have this single shared experience of fighting their way up in a really hard industry and that’s what bonds them. It was really nice to see that traditional story in this different setting. Yeah.
Will: Yeah. And I loved, uh, as far as like a character’s concerned, the conversation about, Hey man, like acting is a job. You just show up, you just got to do it. And, and, but that, that’s not what Simon wants to hear. And then, uh, Trevor to be like, actually, yeah, it’s not a, it’s a calling. Like true actors, it’s a calling and it’s what they were meant to do. And, and in that scene, it was kind of just one of those like Simon and Trevor are, have that same passion for acting. It’s just that Trevor is wise. He’s, he’s done it. He’s done, he’s, he was Simon 20 years ago. Yeah.
Steve: And he’s gone all the way down. He’s just getting down with them. He’s, he’s gone on his own arc of going all the way down and, and coming all the way back up.
Right. Like he’s, he’s found, he did the, the Mandarin thing. He’s found his sobriety. Um, and so he’s kind of in, in a place where he can be a mentor now, but he still has more to his own arc.
Will: God, yeah, that was, uh, it’s the, it’s the character beats that really make or break a show. And, and, um, this show had it in spades.
Steve: It was speaking of, um, it, it’s, it really is remarkable how much, how self-consciously and how resolutely this is not a superhero show to the point that me and will were talking about, you could, you would expect the Wonder Man show to be the entire sequence that is completely off camera, um, between, you know, the sort of like, uh, main end of the show and the end end of the show. Right. Uh, where.
Will: And comes the terms of this powers. Yeah.
Steve: Like, um, Ben King’s, sorry, Trevor Slattery, you know, takes the fall for him, um, and goes to prison and, um, and Simon, who to this point doesn’t have any control over his powers, um, and hasn’t really had to make many moral decisions of his own, goes through, uh, all of the personal rigor and training in order to learn how to control these powers that he has and use them for the greater good. Um, which is also not something that he has been particularly interested in in the past, overcome his own feelings of betrayal and, um, and do what’s right. And, um, and yeah, that, that, you know, I watched Iron Heart right after and that’s, you know, that’s what that show is. Every show is like, uh, every superhero and like self-consciously superhero show, everything that’s conforming to the genre is like, let’s self-actualize this character through learning how to use and come to terms with their powers. Um, and, and learning how to be a moral person and make hard and be make moral choices. Um, and All of that happens for Simon off camera.
Will: Yeah, he has his big Hollywood release and then they do a time jump and he has realized himself and like, oh, okay.
Matthew: And even then I feel like you know, because yeah, I, I really expected that it was going to be the traditional like somewhere in episodes six, seven or eight, you know, robbers would attack the stage where they’re shooting the show or like some light would fall and almost kill a crewman. Like he would be in a situation where he has to reveal that he has powers in order to save someone and he is willing to do that even though it breaks the secret because really he should just be a hero. But of course we don’t get that.
We get him like Trevor makes the sacrifice play and he could say, no, no, wait, let me show you all I have powers because that’s what I’m supposed to be. He doesn’t do that. I don’t think he’s wrong. I think Trevor volunteers to make the sacrifice. He accepts that. And then even at, and when we see him like the thing that makes Trevor have to do that is he at one point gets so kind of frustrated and scared that his secrets can be revealed that he loses control and causes this explosion.
And no one else is around when he does it. And I think you could say that maybe he would have tried harder not to do it if people were around. But I think part of the implication is that he loses control and if people had been around he might have hurt some people. Like that’s I think part of the whole like there is some danger here involved with him. Totally.
But the fact that he’s able to like okay refocus to not have that problem happen again obviously and even at the end when like the last scene he uses his powers to break Trevor out of prison. To me that isn’t okay. I made my movie. I scratched the acting bug.
I’m now a hero. To me that’s I want you in the sequel so I’m going to break you out of prison. You know Or even just like I owe you a debt so I’m going to do that.
But I feel like you know if He walks out of that and Sam Wilson is watching him and is like cool. So you’re ready to like become a hero now? I don’t think he’s going to be like yeah, I’m a hero now. He’d be like no, I got to go make the sequel. Like I’m gonna You guys you guys go deal with dr. Doom, you know or whatever. This is I’m going to be over here I just had to save my buddy and that’s what he’s willing to do and You’re right because of the model that we set up that feels like an immoral act I don’t think it is not necessarily for him and Mark because he he has found a way that he can give back and that acting is a powerful thing thing for that Totally agree.
Steve: Yeah, not everybody. There are other jobs that people can have in the world and and as we kind of mentioned in the last Last episode if superpowers are a part of you of how you are there’s no moral obligation to be To use your powers in that way. You do have a moral obligation to the world around you I think to be the best person that you can and help other people when you have the opportunity That’s not the only way to do it right
Matthew: yeah, um like I think There was a will smith movie made a long time ago I’ve got a guy with superpowers who’s just a selfish jerk and kind of refuses to help the world in any way What’s your I think it’s called hand cock or hitchcock or hand cock hand cock?
Thank you. Um, and to me it felt like that’s not who he is, you know, like yeah, he’s making wonder man It’s not the most like political impactful thing But I think yeah if he he looks at the world and you know, he doesn’t like they’re being right and wrong and he might say Okay, well these terrible things are happening I’m gonna make a movie to help inspire people to do something about it You know rather than I’m gonna go use my superpowers to go do something about it because yeah the thing is often You know the peter parker idea of with great power come great responsibility I think it’s somewhat based on an idea of you’re the only one Yes, this point there’s a lot of people with great power, you know
Steve: It and it goes back to something that I’ve been thinking, you know, just in my own life as an activist and watching You know the the direction that this country has taken Uh over the course of my lifetime and feeling burnout and feeling frustration And and I just kind of had to remind myself like you don’t have to do it all yourself You just have to do a little more than you thought you could
Matthew: yeah, I think it’s really good to put it That’s good That’s true And I I say that it’s someone who could be out driving around and could be out Literally putting myself in between ice agents and and the people are trying to arrest As decided what I’m going to do is stay at home and look up license plate numbers to help the people who are doing that And also talk about these issues and help people think hey if I liked it in the show Maybe you should you know be doing something about it themselves. Um raise a child. Yeah Yeah, and raise a kid, which is you know, I’m thinking about myself I did introduce him to his first Darth Vader toy so I’m possibly either introducing him to a great set of media or Creating a situation that I’ll have to answer for in court when he goes full sith, but we’ll see All right, so you two are my marvel experts Uh, obviously you’re not specifically mcu in that regard, but like you’ve thought a lot about the mcu and all that Where is this gonna fit? Is this just a one-off story? Is this it does feel like almost everything we’re doing right now is leading up to Dr. Doom and and so it feels like you’re kind of wondering like is everything Putting another piece on the board for that story. Um What do you think is this a one-off or we’re gonna see wonder man
Will: again I think I think Okay, I think we’re as likely to see wonder man again as we are to see like moon night again Which is to say Who the hell knows I mean um We talked about this a little bit in the like first episode uh episode um of just like these mcu projects can are I think they thrive when they are just standalone single character dives You can introduce random side characters and and like do a doorman or or mr. Immortal and stuff like that, but like If they if the character that you show if the title character you show Only ever existed in these one or two seasons best case scenario them line Um, that’s okay. That’s okay with me Do do do I need to have wonder man show up as like a um on your left moment in doomsday?
No Yeah, um, would it be cool to see him on the big screen doing ionic energy stuff with someone else who with like like captain marvel Like boosting getting her power boosted even though she doesn’t need it because she’s way too powerful Anyway, like would that be cool? Yeah, but do I need it? No, do I expect it?
Honestly? No Yeah, um, I I don’t need to see wonder man again the character wonder man Elsewhere in the mcu. I’m totally happy with him just being right here and that’s it totally agree
Matthew: I have a funny thing and then a real thing There’s one way in which I want to see him in the dr. Doom movie I want to see a scene where sam wilson and someone from fantastic for the x-men are having a conversation on the street And they’re talking about okay, who can we recruit?
Who are the people with superpowers and they’re going through the list and they’re like, I don’t know who we can get and and they’re standing right in front of a poster for a Second And it never occurs to them that’s like that’s the extent I want to see him. You know like right.
Will: Yeah. Yeah But you’re right. We’ll see like I wanted I wanted um, Robert I wanted Tony Stark to say no shit Sherlock to strange and that never happened. So yeah, yeah But like it would be it would be super fun and self-referential and I love that. That’s a great idea, right?
Matthew: And like You know, I think it’s very significant that this did not have any kind of post credit scene Because going all the way back to the start of the MCU They gave us these individual character movies But then always the post credits would be going all the way back to fury showing up and saying Tony Let me talk to you about the avenger initiative The post credit scene was how they would say That’s the individual story now. Let’s pull it into the larger one And I thought the fact that they didn’t have that was a pretty good sign of this is going to be allowed to be much more of a standalone thing and I do like the pulling everyone together But I think at this point the universe is big enough that we don’t need everyone And it would just feel like ridiculous to try and put everyone in and To me I would You’re right. I think he went through some self-actualization But if he just showed up at Avengers headquarters and said hey, I’ve got these powers.
I’m here to help It would feel all wrong. I feel like I need a whole second season of him Deciding to become the person who’s then going to go join the X-Men or whatever to then go and help against dr. Dewmer. Yeah secret wars or whatever it is
Will: Embracing your powers and deciding to be a superhero are two very disconnected things. Yeah and yeah that arc of like I Understand my powers now. I understand how I can use them What am I going to do with them that that deserves a four episode arc for sure, right?
Matthew: I Think the other way to be okay with it is if they bring the Eternals in which I didn’t think those were really fun characters Even if I didn’t love their movie Having kingo makes some kind of a reference to like you think I’m the only actor with superpowers.
Will: Um Yeah, that would be fun
Steve: or they collab in a project and then they kind of You
Matthew: know They have that moment like you like you.
Will: Yeah I know something do you know something is it the same something I know?
Matthew: Yeah, they used to put out. I don’t know if you guys remember this but during I think phase one and maybe phase two They used to put out these shorts that were like five to 15 minutes The the one I most remember is leading up to the Thor movie. Um, they had one of um Oh my god, I can’t remember his name. They agents who gets killed in Avengers, but then Of course, you know, they had this one shot of Coulson driving down to phoenix to arizona under mech They had this one shot of Coulson driving down to new mexico to Find Thor and he gets into this gas station that’s being held up and it’s just a fun little scene I I’d love him to show it up and something like that, you know or an up close credits, but
Will: you know what I’d be down That’s cool. I’m down for random Disney plus cameo marvel one shots Yeah I’d be down for that. That sounds fun to me Something happened on the way to Thor’s hammer. I think that’s what it was called. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I missed those one shots the although I got soured on one shots after agent carter Because the agent carter in the agent carter one shot was very different Uh from the agent carter we got during the season pauses the winter the winter breaks for agents of shield Yeah, um but they but they They were and weren’t canon Like and it just it once once that all went down. I was just like man, I don’t want one shot anymore That’s fair.
Matthew: Yeah, I think the kind of like is shield is agents of shield cannon or not is the Netflix mcu.
Will: Yeah, there’s that yeah, that’s right. Yeah, they brought in netflix. I wish they brought in agents I mean agents of shield happened because of the mcu that spawned off directly from the mcu And they did in humans. Well Well better than the mcu in humans Yeah, but you know whatever be would it be
Matthew: I’ll say one last thing about this and kind of let you guys comment and we’ll wrap up You mentioned moon night and that hit me because there I was like no I need more moon night, you know, and I feel like They’re had the problem with all the one-shot series and movies I think has been That’s so often they leave them with a lot of like dangling threads that never go anywhere Like I don’t know if we’re ever going to see moon night again And I want to because I want to know like who you know, there’s so much still to learn I feel like this is the first one that really gave us a full and complete story And I like these actors.
I like these characters. I’d like to see more I’m not left with any like dangling questions that I’m like, please bring them back the way I am with moon night or some of the others
Will: Is that where you guys are right? And also to your point about end credit scenes moon night had a Self-fulfilling end credit scene with the revelation of jake lockley, right the third personality that in conchew has under his Uh, uh contract and so like yeah There it’s written in the way that they did the show it’s written in that you do a second season of steve and and and And mark finding out about jake All in the same body and and figuring out the the air quote balance between those three personalities So yeah, that’s a huge second season of moon night works That’s a clear fact.
Matthew: I couldn’t know I couldn’t be the word of it That’s a huge cliffhanger and I feel like this show Didn’t have any cliffhangers at the end.
Steve: I love that for it. Um Yeah, I think it’s it’s just kind of the strategy has been a little borked From this from the start of disney plus. They haven’t really decided. Okay. We want this to supplement the movies We want this to be improving ground for new ideas. We want continuing stories Uh, it it’s just and then they don’t you know, give anything a second season.
It’s uh It’s it’s just been so scattershot. I don’t trust I don’t trust uh the mcu in any to to really flesh out Any idea that they’ve developed in in the disney plus shows which is unfortunate.
Matthew: Yeah Uh, but makes I think that makes me all the happier that this show happened, you know, because to me You know, I I am still gonna see a dr. Do movie.
I’m excited for more superhero movies but I think superhero fatigue is real and A lot of us have been talking about we want to see more movies where people have superpowers But it’s not a superhero story and this is like if if someone said look at the last two years of mcu What do you want more of I would immediately point to this and say give me more things like
Will: this Absolutely Oh Also I’m looking at like the releases for the disney plus shows Uh eyes of Wakanda um I also recommend for like Extra mcu side kind of stuff. Nice.
Matthew: Um, yeah, that one’s animated. I was excited to see that
Will: It is animated and it’s a it’s a wonderfully interesting watch. I I really like the how they wrapped it up Those four episodes.
Matthew: Yeah, it’s next on my list. I’ll check it out All right. Well, uh, thank you all so much for listening. Um, keep your eyes peeled because we may have an episode on eyes of Wakanda coming soon Certainly, we’re gonna try and be a lot more on top of you know as new content comes out But steven will uh, if you people want to find more of their stuff, you can certainly go to hype as my superpower I know that that is currently like one direction on in indefinite hiatus, but there’s certainly an incredible back catalog of episodes and I know that you guys are huge comic book nerds yourself I I’ve said this before about say it again What you do allows me as someone who is not a comic book nerd To fully enjoy because what I feel like you do is you give a good summary of what the story is and then talk about the story In a way that me who’s never going to read the comic book just because my own my brain my brain works with graphics Uh and and graphic art can just appreciate so please check out all that check out all the episodes Both of them have been on both together and separately On back episodes of this, but also I know each of you is doing some of your own creative stuff So will tell us about um where people can find more you
Will: uh, yeah, I am a Very very small time content creator Under the name of silver dreamer s y l v e r dreamer Um, I stream on twitch. Um, I do a lot of building brick sets and model kits And talk a lot about marble comics I have channel point redeems on sunday’s reread reread comics. It’s Um, it’s a lot of fun. If you want to talk more marvel nerdy stuff To definitely come and hang out there.
Matthew: I I love the stuff you do. I also want to say Uh, I I always like when people take my advice, of course for all things, but you took something I said So much more literally than I meant it and it’s been so great You posted something I think that a lot of people are are wrestling with and you said you’re kind of resting You’re talking thinking about like how do we make content about things that are fun and and maybe a little more Uh, lighthearted than what’s happening in the world Without people thinking we’re just ignoring the important stuff in the world and and what I think I said to you was something like Look, just every now and then remind people like you’re you’re totally on the side of what’s happening to like fuck ice and all that and But you’ve got other things to do And ever since then as far as I can tell at least the ones that have been sent on my for you page Every single one of your tick tock starts with Fuck ice. Okay. Now. Let’s talk about what I want to talk about and I just love that
Will: Yeah, that’s exactly what happens
Steve: Such a good way to do it And steve are you putting anything out online these days or another format for people can find? Uh, nothing Nothing coming soon, but uh, yeah, I write comic books and self publish them and I’ve got a series called The pros it’s about spies who work for an insurance company and uh, if you it’s a workplace comedy slash political thriller Uh, if you think that that’s fun, uh It’s hard to find but get in contact with me and I will send you copies for some
Matthew: money Is there a link that we can use for it that I can put the show notes? No Okay, okay Uh, well if anybody’s out there figuring like they want to find a way to help But don’t really know what they can do. Uh, if you’re a web designer Why don’t you contact steve and help figure out a way to put this up?
Steve: Yeah. Oh, no. No, here’s what you do Here’s what you do. Uh, send me a receipt for money that you’ve donated to Uh resistance against ice, um in minneapolis or anywhere else and I’ll send you comics for free Awesome.
Matthew: I love and there are a couple of groups right here. They’re collecting money. Uh for various things There’s one’s collecting money for bail funds One of the biggest needs is there’s a lot of people who are just afraid to leave their house because if they go out of their house They’re gonna get you know nailed for things Even if they’re citizens or even if they have totally legitimate You know green cards or whatever So there’s some charities that are established specifically to help like get those people food and stuff like that So I will I will post links and I’ll also if you want to just send it directly to me And I’ll send it to steve or to contact see directly. We’ll put all that in the show notes. So yep. Thank you so much And I’m now going to make sure I get a copy of this stuff because I’m really curious about How this stuff interacts with you know, monday and things like insurance So steve has just volunteered to come and talk about that on the podcast sometimes here So, I like telling people what they volunteered for that. They didn’t know about uh, so on behalf of all of us Thank you all so much for listening
Will: We also play a lot of magic well, we’re very involved with magic
