Mandy Kaplan:
Hello everybody and welcome to Make Me a Nerd. I’m Mandy Kaplan, a mainstream mom whose mission it is to explore the world of nerd culture that I’ve been missing out on and afraid of my whole life. If you are new to this podcast, welcome aboard. The basic premise is easy. My whole life, I have said I don’t get things like Dungeons and Dragons or Star Wars or Star Trek. And now that I’m an old lady, my friends and my wonderfully nerdy community of colleagues are saying, hey, get with it. This stuff is awesome. And you know what? I’ve been at this a year and a half, and I agree.
So I have a nerd update before I start my podcast. I did an episode very recently about Prince with one of today’s guests, Kyle Olson, and my producer extraordinaire, Pete Wright. And they told me that Prince was on the Muppets and I should check it out. And I did. I just want people to know, sometimes on the podcast when I say, oh, I’ll watch that, sometimes I really do. And it was so charming. Kyle, I’ll allow you to speak. I see you biting your tongue. Thank you.
Kyle Olson:
Oh man, it’s really hard to hold your breath through all that.
Mandy Kaplan:
But Prince was so childlike and innocent and adorable on the Muppets. And I really enjoyed it. So I thank you for that.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, that makes me very happy. Muppets Tonight is one of those sort of lost pieces of Muppet lore because it’s not easily available anymore. But that was a time when there wasn’t a lot of Muppet stuff out there, and so the fact that I got to have a show and they got to have all these people on, and then Prince being one of them — yeah, it was sort of like those are when a couple of my nerd spheres overlapped. And I was ecstatic.
Mandy Kaplan:
Of course. Let’s bring in one of our all-time favorite guests. She’s back, everybody, from the — oh god — Totally Awesome 80s Movie Podcast.
Krissy Lenz:
Most Excellent.
Mandy Kaplan:
The Most Excellent! Krissy, I’m so sorry.
Krissy Lenz:
That’s okay.
Mandy Kaplan:
I’m the least excellent. And the other podcast, Gank That Drank. She is maybe the most frequent guest on Make Me a Nerd, and my favorite, Krissy Lenz.
Krissy Lenz:
Yes!
Kyle Olson:
Woo! Yeah!
Krissy Lenz:
Yay! I’m so happy to be back. I just love nerding out with you, Mandy.
Mandy Kaplan:
I can’t get enough. And Kyle Olson, Craft and Chaos, correct?
Kyle Olson:
That is correct.
Mandy Kaplan:
The podcast?
Kyle Olson:
I am also here. I listen to the both of you on the shows all the time, and so I’m just happy to — I might just sit quietly because I’m so used to just listening to the two of you go back and forth.
Mandy Kaplan:
That would be delightful. Let’s just make Kyle sit there quietly. That’s hilarious.
Kyle Olson:
Front row seat, I get to be the first audience member. Hooray!
Krissy Lenz:
Yay.
Mandy Kaplan:
So this came about when Krissy was last on my podcast and she mentioned Dr. Horrible. What were we talking about that Dr. Horrible came up?
Krissy Lenz:
Firefly.
Mandy Kaplan:
Firefly, that makes sense. Okay, Joss Whedon, Nathan Fillion, that’s the connection.
Kyle Olson:
Yep. I’m on a Firefly rewatch right now, so yeah.
Krissy Lenz:
Ooh, yay.
Mandy Kaplan:
So good, right? So please everybody go back and listen. That was a Serenity-Firefly episode with Krissy Lenz. And somehow Dr. Horrible came up and I said, you know, I’ve never seen it. And her little eyes lit up, and I knew this had to happen and happen fast. So, Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog — when did this come out?
Kyle Olson:
This was 2008, July of 2008.
Mandy Kaplan:
And how did you guys know about it? Because I remember when it came out, because it was a musical theater thing. People were telling me about it. And this was so long ago, I was like, what do you mean it’s on the computer? For me, it didn’t make sense. It wasn’t in the movie theater and it wasn’t on stage. I didn’t get it. So how did you discover this?
Krissy Lenz:
A friend told me about it and was like, are you watching Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog? And I was like, I don’t know what that means. I recognize all those words individually, but together I’m confused. And it was on Hulu, and that was back in the day where you had to get someone who had Hulu to invite you to Hulu.
Mandy Kaplan:
I don’t even know about these days.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, it was like the proto-era. So my friend Tom Hart invited me to Hulu and linked me to Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog, and I was hooked. I watched them when they dropped and was so, so, so excited because I just fell in love with it immediately.
Mandy Kaplan:
But there are only the three acts, right?
Krissy Lenz:
Yes, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Oh my god. When you said I watched them as they dropped, I was like, there are more episodes and I didn’t see them.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, they did come out episodically. So when they originally came out, they did Act One, Act Two, Act Three as individual sort of episodes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. And when was that, when it came out, Krissy, or was that like a couple of years later?
Kyle Olson:
I think it was later.
Krissy Lenz:
No, it was — oh, I think it was when it was like coming out.
Kyle Olson:
I thought it was iTunes exclusive first and then it made the wave to streaming later, but probably within that year, I’m sure.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, was it? I may be misremembering, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
So, Kyle, I’m sure you were first to it.
Kyle Olson:
Probably, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Like sleeping outside a proverbial store for no reason, just because.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, I did pre-order it and watched it that morning when it — yeah. And before we go too far, I do want to say that if you go back to the episode that you were kind of tap-dancing around — you had a big statement about Joss in there, and I stand by everything that was in there. So I acknowledge that he is a problematic creator. Anything nice we say on here, I take it under the guise of: monsters can also make art. So I come here not to praise, but to bury — or what, vice versa.
But at the time we didn’t know, and so I was deep into the fandom from Buffy. That was where it started. And I was on Whedonesque, I was on The Bronze — I was part of all of those sort of online communities that built this cult around Joss. So everybody was sort of watching and waiting to see what the next thing would be.
Mandy Kaplan:
Wait, can you back up — what were you on, the what and the what and the what?
Kyle Olson:
Sure. Buffy was one of the first online fan communities that came to — I mean, I know Star Trek, but I’m saying once the internet hit. It was the first major thing that everybody of a certain age and a certain disposition sort of flocked to and created this entire thing around — enough so that the industry started moving towards what the fans were doing. It wasn’t just we would get on to complain. There actually was a real — and because it was so new and so open, members of the cast and crew and even Joss Whedon himself would come onto the boards to talk to people, to post stuff.
Mandy Kaplan:
You’re kidding. And what were they called? You named them something.
Kyle Olson:
Well, Whedonesque was one of the major ones, and The Bronze. So Whedonesque is Joss Whedon-esque — Whedonesque.
Mandy Kaplan:
We didn’t ask? Like, “we didn’t ask”? Oh, okay.
Kyle Olson:
They’ve all sadly shut down because the time has passed. But for a while there it was — yeah, just waiting for someone to ask him. He has an AMA, an open AMA, waiting for people to come in.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s just him sitting alone, yeah.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
So for a while there, that was where we all gathered and we all talked to each other and built out this thing. And from that, the Firefly community is a huge community and started the entire movement to try and bring the show back. The reason that the show got made — which I’m sure you discussed a little bit on your episode about that. You say there are clusters of fans, as you’re finding out — there are fans of different things and different emotions and things about fans. Browncoats are some of the best fans out there. Supernatural fans are some of the best fans out there too.
Mandy Kaplan:
Shout out, Krissy.
Kyle Olson:
Right? I mean, there are a couple of toxic fandoms that you have to be very careful when you stumble into, but all of these have been nothing but love. Nothing but like-minded people gathering together to talk about this stuff. They’re like — this is exactly what you’re doing here on the show. So I was sort of deep into that when it was coming out, so that’s why we all sort of knew and we were all waiting for the next thing to come out. And this was the next thing.
Mandy Kaplan:
As a noob — and I promise we’ll get back on our topic, but my Jiminy Glick moment — what are some of these toxic fandoms you speak of?
Kyle Olson:
This is a show about positivity, so we don’t want to go into the dark spaces, but —
Mandy Kaplan:
You’re not gonna name them?
Kyle Olson:
I’m not going to name them, no.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Oh, wow.
Kyle Olson:
But there is a whole meme thing going around now too of, like, if you were in trouble and you saw a person wearing a shirt of a fandom, what fandoms would you go to? Which one do you go to for help? It’s more that man-or-bear thing, except a little more friendly.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, I love that. Look for a nerd.
Mandy Kaplan:
You make so many references and I’m like, the what?
Krissy Lenz:
That’s what you tell your kids.
Kyle Olson:
Look for a nerd, right?
Mandy Kaplan:
The man or bear? I don’t —
Kyle Olson:
Oh, okay, drifting into dark territory here.
Mandy Kaplan:
What world do I live in that I don’t know anything about anything?
Kyle Olson:
I’m sorry, that was a much darker meme.
Mandy Kaplan:
That’s today’s question.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, it’s sort of like, if you’re in trouble, if you see someone wearing a Star Trek shirt, you’re gonna be good. If you see someone wearing a Venom shirt, maybe not. If you see someone wearing a Punisher shirt, you should probably just keep bleeding.
Krissy Lenz:
Stay away, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Thank you for the life lesson. Street smarts. So, Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog came out when Joss Whedon was at the height of his Buffy fame, no?
Kyle Olson:
No, this is actually an interesting time in his life because he was in director jail.
Mandy Kaplan:
After —
Kyle Olson:
Are we all familiar with that term?
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
Okay. So from Serenity — hey, I thought you might, you’re in the business.
Mandy Kaplan:
I know something.
Kyle Olson:
So Serenity had bombed at the box office by Universal Pictures standards, and so he was unhirable. He was in the period where no one was really doing anything. And then the 2007 writers strike hit and then no one was making anything. And that was when he decided to gather together all the people that he knew — all the creatives who were out of work — and make something new and weird without any caveats from any studio or any money coming in from outside where people could influence it. Purely just: this is the creative thing I want to do with my friends during this time when no one could work.
Mandy Kaplan:
And his brother, right? Or — who’s Jed?
Kyle Olson:
His brothers, yeah. Both brothers.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay, brothers. So it opens with Neil Patrick Harris, who we will talk about, but I think you should know I think he’s perfect in every way, shape, and form. And I love him, love him, love him.
Kyle Olson:
No arguments.
Mandy Kaplan:
And he is just talking to his camera, doing a vlog, as we used to call it, right? And he does a monologue about how he wants to be in the Evil League of Evil. Is that what — and my first thought was, well, darn it, I wish this opened with a song. It’s a musical, and it does not open with a song. But he sells that monologue so well. Did he do it in one take? Do we know?
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, I don’t think there’s any cuts in it. He has a reputation for learning stuff very, very quickly. I think when he hosted the Tonys, Lin-Manuel Miranda wrote him a rap during the performance and he had to learn it in the commercial breaks. And so at the end of the show, he did a brand new Lin-Manuel Miranda rap from scratch, from memory.
Mandy Kaplan:
You’re making me love him even more, and I thought that was impossible. He is so charming. He’s such a theater kid. And so it doesn’t surprise me that he would do this in one take. He’s just ranting and raving about how he’s not recognized as evil and he wants to be evil, and I wish that there had been a little more world building. I wish I knew what he was talking about from the top. And that’s why I wanted that song. Like, here’s who we all are, here’s how we live our lives, and now focus in on Dr. Horrible. Am I alone in that?
Krissy Lenz:
Like Belle walking through the town.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Krissy Lenz:
Here comes the baker — here comes Johnny Snow with his freeze ray.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. Yes, that’s what I wanted. Is that a crazy want?
Krissy Lenz:
I sort of love that there’s a little bit of mystery. So, the head of the Evil League of Evil is called Bad Horse.
Kyle Olson:
Mm-hmm.
Krissy Lenz:
And at the end you learn it’s a horse.
Mandy Kaplan:
And they actually just tuck that in and keep moving, which I like.
Krissy Lenz:
It’s a bad horse.
Mandy Kaplan:
Even though they sing songs about Bad Horse and he’s always trying to impress Bad Horse.
Krissy Lenz:
The Thoroughbred of Sin.
Mandy Kaplan:
Um —
Kyle Olson:
Apparently that was a Ben Edlund thing — who was a writer on Buffy and Angel and creator of The Tick — that he had been trying to get Bad Horse into the Buffy world for a long time and they just kept saying no, no. And this came along and they’re like, I think it’s time for Bad Horse.
Krissy Lenz:
It’s time for Bad Horse, yep.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. And he pulls up something — what was in the bag?
Krissy Lenz:
His goo.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s goo.
Krissy Lenz:
It was gold bars that he —
Kyle Olson:
I think that was gold, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And the death ray melted it.
Krissy Lenz:
Transported from there to here — his transportation ray — and he’s like, it’s not about making money, it’s about taking money. So he transported them into goo.
Mandy Kaplan:
And then he takes a whiff. He’s like, smells like human. And then he just keeps going. I adore it. And then we meet Simon Helberg, who plays Moist. A controversial word, I know, but I don’t mind it. Is everybody okay with the word?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, it doesn’t bother me.
Kyle Olson:
We’re okay with it, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I was like, oh, Wolowitz from Big Bang Theory. Fantastic. I love Simon Helberg, so talented. And then we see that Dr. Horrible has a crush on a gal named Penny. And I was wondering if there is any connection to Big Bang Theory. Like, why Penny and Wolowitz are in this. Is there —
Kyle Olson:
This sort of predates that. So Simon — I did a quick headcount of everybody, like where they were in their career. Simon Helberg was a working actor. He had just come off of Studio 60, which now is kind of a punchline, but then was a big deal. He had done Walk Hard and he had done a stint on Joey.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh.
Krissy Lenz:
No.
Mandy Kaplan:
And he was in Old School a little bit before this, but —
Kyle Olson:
Remember, the Friends spinoff? Yeah. Oh yeah, he has a long — I mean, these are just the things he’d done the last year or two before this. So Big Bang Theory was still a couple years away. But he was a working actor, and he had a real deep resume already by this point. So I think he was a good get to be the sidekick.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, I was shocked because I was like, oh wait, the Penny — I think is what threw me. Penny’s an odd name, and you know —
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, mm.
Mandy Kaplan:
But anywho, we should take a break is what we should do. Will I gather my thoughts? Here we go.
Once they go out into the world, it is very clearly a studio lot. They don’t make any effort to make it look like a real street in any way. Do you know — was that intentional?
Kyle Olson:
It really comes down to money. All this stuff was self-financed. There was no — it was all just straight out of pocket. The studio was empty at the time because they weren’t allowed to shoot anything, so they probably got a bargain rate, but they probably used most of the money just renting — I think it was Paramount Studios, like their back lot. So yeah, it was trying to put all their money towards the special effects, of what there were.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, there weren’t many. I mean, that’s what I like about it. It is made on the cheap, and so much of it is just Neil Patrick Harris being charming and hilarious to camera.
Krissy Lenz:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
And so they got away with quite a bit there. Do you know anything about the music, the writing process? Or is it the same people that wrote the Buffy musical?
Kyle Olson:
Pretty much, yeah. And then bringing in one of the brothers — I can’t remember which of the brothers it was — that is the musical one. I think Jed, and then his wife, Maurissa. They’re like the three of them are sort of the major contributors to the actual full music, and I believe Joss has sole writing credit.
Mandy Kaplan:
So when you saw it, what did you make of it? Because it’s really different than other stuff. It is funny, but it’s not like a laugh-out-loud, rubber-chicken kind of humor. It’s a subtle humor — or not subtle, that’s the wrong word, but it’s more referential humor, I guess. What were your first impressions of it?
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, I loved it. I was immediately obsessed. It’s right up my alley as the humor goes. Whether it’s subtle or referential, all the little jokes just totally pinged for me. And I immediately fell in love. I memorized all the songs. I showed it to my kids. Rocket, my son, who is fifteen now, went as Captain Hammer for Halloween when he was like four. And he would sing, the man’s gotta —
Mandy Kaplan:
Kitchen gloves? Was he wearing like black kitchen gloves?
Krissy Lenz:
Yep, exactly that. And I ironed on a little hammer. Luckily, all the costumes are very easy to cosplay. So it was just a brown shirt with a simple iron-on. And it was so fun. So yeah, I showed this movie to everyone. Once I got it on DVD, I was like, everyone, get over here. We’re gonna watch the whole thing and then we’re gonna watch Commentary! The Musical. I’m gonna force you to do the whole nine yards.
Mandy Kaplan:
Now, I did not see the commentary. There was discussion of it.
Krissy Lenz:
There was. Commentary! The Musical is so delightful. It’s a whole commentary track that’s a completely other musical experience.
Mandy Kaplan:
For Dr. Horrible?
Krissy Lenz:
For Dr. Horrible, where they have the whole cast there and they sing a whole song about the writers strike. They have the woman who is one of the three superfans sing a song called Ten Dollar Solo.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.
Krissy Lenz:
She gave Joss ten dollars to get a solo.
Mandy Kaplan:
Uh-huh.
Krissy Lenz:
Nathan Fillion sings a song about how he’s better than Neil Patrick Harris — “Better Than Neil.” And it’s just such a delightful experience.
Mandy Kaplan:
So, why didn’t I get to watch that too?
Kyle Olson:
It’s a bonus feature on the DVD, so you have to do that.
Mandy Kaplan:
So I should have gotten those from Tommy — Matt’s friend of show.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, maybe. I’ll see. I think there’s a weird way of doing it. You can upload multiple audio tracks to do a thing. But the one you watched was just the straight-up YouTube one. And I think it’s out of print now. Or, I know the Blu-ray’s out of print, because I was looking just to see if they ever had put one out, and they did, but now it’s like in the hundreds of dollars if you want to get it.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Krissy Lenz:
Yikes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Although I enjoyed it, I will tell you that when it started I was a little on the fence about it. And one of my complaints, which is minor — none of the songs finish. And it was starting to really bug me. They just get interrupted, or they start and then they switch to a different person singing a different song. And I was like, what happened to that song? But really, towards the very end of Act One, Nathan Fillion bursts into this project with such a fun, cocky energy. And that’s when I was like, I’m on board. I got it. I got the tone. It just seemed to find itself for me when he entered.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, Captain Hammer’s here.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, exactly. It goes from just the — what we now say maybe incel, like this creepy guy going after this girl, who we know he wants to be in the Evil League of Evil, so they’re not a sewing club. And then you have the real hero or whatever shows up, and so now we have a real story. There’s a rival. And Nathan Fillion is interesting because not only is he incredibly charismatic, but he’s not a singer. And he even was, when Joss called, he was sort of like, are you sure you’re looking at the right person? Like, it’s not that I don’t sing — I don’t sing at all. And so they’re like, ah, we’ll get it. We’ll fix it. We’ll make it happen. So charisma goes a long way.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh yeah, it does.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay, so — and I know I’m a musical theater snob, that’s my caveat as I start to vent about the singing. Neil Patrick Harris can really sing, and God love him.
Krissy Lenz:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
He’s a musical talent. I was very underwhelmed by Felicia Day. And when you Google her it says American actress and singer. And I was shocked by that. And then connecting this to the musical episode of Buffy, I understood it and I forgave it for Buffy, because you had to use those actors — you’re right, they’re already there. But why does Joss Whedon seek out weak singers for a musical project? Not Neil Patrick Harris, NPH excluded from that question. And I hope I’m not offending, but I didn’t think Nathan Fillion and Felicia Day were good singers.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, I think Nathan would agree — I think both of them actually would agree with that. I don’t think Felicia Day considers herself to be a singer. Knowing her — she was actually a huge sort of internet celebrity at this point. She was doing a show called The Guild, which I think they’re in the process of doing a Kickstarter to do a final movie of right now. And that was huge in the geekosphere. So I think she was the one who was like — you know, when he had this idea of, I want to do this thing, she’s like, you need to put it on the internet. You need to go directly out to the people. So she was the one telling him that, as opposed to the guy coming from television, coming from movies. And she would very soon then create Geek & Sundry, which was her own online community, and which eventually would be sold off, I think, to YouTube, in some kind of deal.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, okay.
Kyle Olson:
And Critical Role comes out of Geek & Sundry. There’s this whole boom of internet entertainment comedy thing happening. And so I think part of it was just her being around saying, this is what you need to do. And he’d be like, well, then you need to do it too.
Mandy Kaplan:
So she had her own fan base.
Kyle Olson:
She comes with a lot of fame in addition to — yeah, she had a big fan base online.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. Okay. That makes terrific sense. I had no idea of that.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. So on her things — writer, director — I think she’s a trained violinist. She has — I think she would put singer probably pretty low on that list of things.
Krissy Lenz:
She has a huge convention presence too. Felicia Day goes to a lot of conventions and she’s always a huge, huge hit. So she’s got a huge fan base that’s very, very loyal to her. And I know that she’s not the strongest singer, but I think that she has such a geeky, nerdy charm that for me I totally forgive. And I love the songs because they’re so karaoke-friendly.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, yeah.
Krissy Lenz:
So for someone who’s not a singer, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Except they don’t finish.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, there was no knock on her charisma or her acting. I thought she was lovely as Penny. But then she sang, and as a singer, it just offends me to think how many really good singers there are out there. But this is coming from an ignorant, mainstream person who didn’t know who Felicia Day was. So now that makes sense.
Fun fact that is not fun at all: as a voiceover artist, there are projects that will say, you need to tell us how many followers you have on all the platforms before we’ll listen to your audition.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And so that’s the genesis of this. Her getting to do this is because she has this fan base who will follow her everywhere. But good for her. She almost sounds like a Bo Burnham — a female Bo Burnham. Somebody who discovered new ways of finding audiences.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, exactly. It wasn’t — she didn’t have that Schwab’s moment. She basically did all this stuff herself. She was the one who put all the stuff together, gathered people together, organized, had to create budgets and things. And so she has always been a more self-reliant person than a lot of people who unfortunately have to wait for a gatekeeper to let them in. She was sort of like, well, there’s this whole area here where no one has been yet — going into the Wild West.
Mandy Kaplan:
Good for her.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, exactly. And she’s girl boss, I guess. Is that what we’re saying now?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah. Are we still saying that?
Mandy Kaplan:
I’d rather not.
Kyle Olson:
Are we? I don’t know, that’s what I’m wondering.
Mandy Kaplan:
You have made so many references, Kyle, and most of them are going right over my head because they are either very new modern things that I’m not aware of, or geek culture.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, I would doubt they’re new and modern. New and modern are two things that have not been applied to me.
Mandy Kaplan:
But you say Schwab’s, and I’m like, 1930s Hollywood.
Kyle Olson:
Oh.
Mandy Kaplan:
Thank you. I got it.
Kyle Olson:
Exactly. Right. I’ll try and adjust my references to the 1930s.
Mandy Kaplan:
Lana Turner — was that Schwab’s drugstore when someone — I really, really appreciate it. I’m not a topical person.
Kyle Olson:
She’s like the James Cagney of her time. No, maybe not.
Mandy Kaplan:
So this act ends after a battle with Captain Hammer, and then Neil Patrick Harris gets defeated, but Hammer meets the girl and he walks off, and the whole thing ends with him muttering, “Balls.”
Krissy Lenz:
Balls. Balls.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s such a bold, funny choice. That’s just how it ends — “Balls.” So I went from being dubious to being completely on board. And this is, I think, where I want to take a break and then I want to go into detail about my potentially restraining-order-worthy love of Neil Patrick Harris.
Krissy Lenz:
Yay.
Mandy Kaplan:
After this.
So, have you guys ever played Box ONE?
Kyle Olson:
No.
Mandy Kaplan:
Are you familiar with Box ONE?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
No.
Mandy Kaplan:
Kids. He made an escape room. Neil Patrick Harris, my man, made an escape room in a box, and it comes to your house, and it’s so clever. I highly recommend it for the whole family. My dear friend and frequent guest Tommy Metz introduced us to it. And Neil Patrick Harris participates. So you go to these websites and then he’s like, help, here’s the deal. He’s talking to you throughout. It is so clever. So I highly recommend Box ONE. And it was just his brainchild. He did it during the pandemic, I think, because he thought people deserved fun.
Krissy Lenz:
So you just recommended a nerd thing to us.
Kyle Olson:
Whoa.
Mandy Kaplan:
I did! When your kids were younger, did they read his book series, The Magic Misfits?
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, we actually — that’s where I met him, is during the book tour. So he came out and I got the autograph and stuff too, and he did magic on stage for us. Sometimes — Changing Hands is a big bookstore out here, and they brought him out, but because he’s Neil Patrick Harris, they had to rent out an auditorium.
Mandy Kaplan:
Fantastic.
Kyle Olson:
And then he did his whole talk about the book, and then he actually did magic on stage. So I was like, wow, I got to see Neil Patrick Harris do a magic trick. This is pretty cool.
Mandy Kaplan:
He’s so good.
Krissy Lenz:
I have Neil Patrick Harris playing cards.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, nice, right there.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, for the win. Krissy for the win.
Krissy Lenz:
Where can I put them? They say NPH.
Mandy Kaplan:
I love it. Are those affiliated with the book? Because the book has playing cards on the cover.
Krissy Lenz:
I don’t know. I got them just as a gift, and I keep them in their pack and don’t touch them. I can’t do any magic with them.
Mandy Kaplan:
And aren’t they worth more in the box?
Krissy Lenz:
No.
Mandy Kaplan:
I know that from —
Kyle Olson:
According to the website, they are not. They were just created by him and designed by him. So they’re not affiliated with the book at all, even though the book series does have a big card theme to it.
Mandy Kaplan:
Playing cards on the — yeah. He’s just so multifaceted. And then when he does host the Tonys — he’s the best host the Tonys have ever had, as far as I’m concerned, little ol’ me. He did that magic trick where he was on stage and then two seconds later he was out in the back of the house. And I’ve seen that fifteen times and it blows my mind. He’s a very good magician, and he can sing and dance.
And I hung out with him in New York City one night when he was doing Rent.
Kyle Olson:
Ooh, nice.
Mandy Kaplan:
And of course, my friends were like, oh, this is Neil. And I was like, oh, hey, Neil, nice to meet you. To me, it was the most exciting — I’m sure he had the same reaction when he met me. Who are we kidding?
Kyle Olson:
Well, sure.
Mandy Kaplan:
But he was so humble, one of us, no ego, no attitude. And it was just cool. We hung out all night and I was just like — he’s Doogie Howser. He doesn’t have to slum it with the Broadway wannabes like me, but he was so wonderful. So I just love Neil Patrick Harris. And yet I hadn’t seen this.
Krissy Lenz:
He’s so great.
Krissy Lenz:
And he’s so cute in it.
Kyle Olson:
There were so many of these times he’d done Broadway stuff that I wish they would release. This is when the transient nature of Broadway sometimes makes me angry — never getting to see his version of Red, never getting to see him in Rocky Horror. These seem like fundamental things that would be — I mean, in this world of commerce, I would gladly pay money for access to said thing, but —
Mandy Kaplan:
But then you wouldn’t pay money to fly to New York to see it when it’s happening.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, but that’s the thing — I can’t now, because he’s not doing it anymore. So why?
Mandy Kaplan:
He will. But yeah, I mean, that is the reason that Broadway gatekeeps, or whatever it is. It’s because — and I do the same for my cabaret, Miscast. People are like, oh, I see the videos.
Krissy Lenz:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
And it’s like, well, if you’re watching videos online, you’re not gonna come see the show. You’re just not, because you can see it the next week online. So I don’t post —
Kyle Olson:
I don’t know. Hamilton would disagree with you. They put out a huge 4K video of that, and yet they’re selling out around the country and in the theaters.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, but name the others.
Kyle Olson:
Well, Six is coming to theaters, Hadestown is coming — and they’re both still on Broadway and both still filling the houses. So I don’t know, that gets into another area.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, but I do think there’s something to be said for leaving stage experiences on stage. That’s a debate for a different day.
Kyle Olson:
Maybe this comes from a person who came from a flyover state who never got a chance to go.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
But it’s interesting that Neil Patrick Harris, coming off of Doogie and then Harold and Kumar and stuff too — managed to reinvent. And at this point he was on How I Met Your Mother. How I Met Your Mother was a hit already while he was shooting this. So he did not need it. Which is one of the other points in his favor: career-wise, he was doing fine. He was on a major CBS sitcom, as one of many leads, but a name. This was just something that came along that I think he just thought, yeah, sounds like fun. Which is the point in our careers we all wish we could get to, where we could just go, oh yeah, there’s this —
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Krissy Lenz:
Right.
Kyle Olson:
We don’t have to do the marketing about how much time versus — to go, oh no, I just want to — that’s a fun thing. I’m just gonna do that.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, he seems like a person that is always like, yeah, that sounds like fun. I’ll do that. I mean, what do I know? I’ve also listened to audiobooks he narrates simply because he narrated them. I’m just obsessed.
Okay. Act Two. I want more of NPH talking straight to camera. And I love when he is talking and then he interrupts himself or he peters out. He’ll just be talking, and then — and it’s over. And it’s like, what just happened?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
His comic timing — and he’s not pushing. He’s not over the top. He’s just this sad, insecure guy who thinks evil will make him happy. And it’s just charming.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, I love that the second one starts with him just staring into the camera and you’re like, oh no, oh no. It’s so good.
Kyle Olson:
Beaten up. He’s got all the marks on his face from Captain Hammer.
Krissy Lenz:
Mm-hmm. He’s like, and they met, and they’re probably going to French kiss.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. This episode held a lot of — I pulled a lot of quotes from this one. He also — are you guys fans of Phineas and Ferb? Because there’s a lot of Doofenshmirtz in Dr. Horrible.
Kyle Olson:
Oh yes. Oh yeah, I can see that.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right?
Kyle Olson:
Uh-huh.
Mandy Kaplan:
And who doesn’t love Doofenshmirtz?
Krissy Lenz:
Good eye, good eye.
Kyle Olson:
Freeze-Ray-inator. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I mean, with the machinery and the evil grand plans and even the lab coat and the goggles —
Kyle Olson:
And the lab coat, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s pretty close. He references — or does Simon Helberg reference — a henchman’s union?
Krissy Lenz:
Oh yeah, uh-huh. The Henchmen’s Guild.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. Oh my god. I thought that was so funny. And I often on this show talk about henchmen because I’m fascinated by the concept. I think it was my Batman Beyond episode. And I have a Godfather episode coming. It’s like, who commits to a life of, I’ll stand over here, I won’t say anything, I won’t think my own thoughts, and then if things get violent, I’ll jump in.
Kyle Olson:
Right. I have long been working on — trying to find, is this a script, is it a movie, is it a television show — of like, “that guy.” Whenever you go to the — like in John Wick, there’s always the drug lord’s house and there’s always women in bikinis there. And I’m always like, why? How? So my thing is, I wanted to have a love story of a — a moll, I guess, is, I don’t know if there’s a better term — and a henchman, working around this stuff. Like, how did she get there? What is her job? Why are they there? So yeah, I’m right with you on that. Obsessed with that henchman. Like, why do you go work for the Joker? What does this get you?
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. What do you get from it?
Krissy Lenz:
You have to wear that outfit. You gotta dress like all the others.
Kyle Olson:
Right.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yep. And the idea of a union and the way it’s referenced — I didn’t write the whole quote down, but it’s like, you couldn’t even get into the Henchmen’s Union and now you want to be a main bad guy. It’s just such a funny concept.
Neil Patrick Harris does a full-on Keyser Söze personality flip when he’s with Penny in the laundromat, and she’s like, oh, my new guy is coming in, and he knows it’s Captain Hammer, and he tries to not make eye contact, like, oh, we’ve never met before. Nice to meet you. And he does a full personality flip where he’s twitchy, and it’s so interesting. It’s such an interesting choice.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. And like, “oh, look at my wrist” — he looks down, he’s just not wearing a watch.
Mandy Kaplan:
Look at my wrist, I gotta go.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah.
Krissy Lenz:
You’re driving the spork into your leg.
Mandy Kaplan:
So I am. Hilarious. Yeah, there are a lot of very quotable moments. And in this scene, Nathan Fillion is like, I’m on to you, I know who you are, right?
Kyle Olson:
Uh-huh.
Mandy Kaplan:
And he taunts him that he’s gonna go take Penny home and show her the hammer. And he goes on and on about the hammer, the hammer, and he’s holding up his fists. And then — this is the humor I like — he’s like, by the way, the hammer is my penis.
Kyle Olson:
Yep. And he steps off camera and then, just like the — and then just like you can — “I don’t know if I was clear about this,” and then walks back in just to make sure that you know.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
I love that.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s Mel Brooks-ian, in a way — that kind of humor, really calling it out. And I like when you have a joke and then you beat the joke and then you beat it some more and then it’s dead and lifeless, and you go ahead and kick it one more time. That’s my happy place. And I think this does that well.
Kyle Olson:
And to talk about classic physical humor — the Bad Horse chorus, every time. He starts reading the letter and then the cowboys just lean in. They’re just standing off to the side of the camera. It’s such an old-school gag. But God, I love that. Just them leaning in to sing the song of what he’s reading. And then you see him reacting to it as they’re doing it, and then they pop back out again.
Krissy Lenz:
Thank you.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
Love it.
Mandy Kaplan:
I hate to keep comparing it to other things, and that’s not to take away from it. It’s just, my mind works that way, where if it reminds me of something else that makes me extra happy. They used to do that on Scrubs with the a cappella group all the time. I don’t know if you’re a Scrubs fan. They would just pop in. It’s a really fun gag.
And then Neil Patrick Harris is, for some reason, in a big chair like Edith, and he’s singing about being a failure.
Krissy Lenz:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
“I won’t be a damn failure.” And then he says, but I’ll give you a shiny new Australia.
Kyle Olson:
I love that. Maybe my favorite line in the whole thing. “She may cry, but her tears will dry when I hand her the keys to a shiny new Australia.” God, I love that.
Mandy Kaplan:
Simply for the rhyme. There’s no reason, unless I missed something.
Kyle Olson:
No, no.
Mandy Kaplan:
Just to rhyme with failure. So funny.
Krissy Lenz:
You gotta go for the rhyme. You can’t miss out on a rhyme like that.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yep. We are on to Act Three, as far as I know.
Krissy Lenz:
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, we’ve had our Les Miz moment of “Brand New Day,” where he is now committed to evil.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. And they do — frequently throughout this they do the thing, the end-of-West-Side-Story Act One, where it’s, I’m singing my song and I’m coming in over here with the counter melody, and then we sing together. They do that a lot in Dr. Horrible.
Krissy Lenz:
Mm-hmm. And I love it so much.
Mandy Kaplan:
And they do it well.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah. I always try and use that as an example in musical improv of how one person singing doesn’t prevent other people from singing. You can come in and sing with them as long as you’re singing sort of the same way, and it just weaves and flows and balances in such a nice way. I use this as an example — force people to watch it and be like, do more of this.
Mandy Kaplan:
Do you force them to watch Game Changer?
Krissy Lenz:
I force them to watch many things, but I don’t have to force them to watch Game Changer because they all watch Game Changer.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay, because the improvised musical was — I mean, breathtaking.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah.
Krissy Lenz:
So amazing.
Mandy Kaplan:
I did an episode of Make Me a Nerd about it, with our friend Kyle Olson here.
Kyle Olson:
What?
Mandy Kaplan:
What?
Krissy Lenz:
What?
Kyle Olson:
Me?
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, and they really are at the top of their game.
Kyle Olson:
What?
Krissy Lenz:
So talented.
Kyle Olson:
There’s one they did where they got the Improvised Shakespeare Company to come in and do it. So they do an entire episode of a faux Shakespearean show over the course of it, and those guys — I don’t know how their brains work.
Mandy Kaplan:
Is that like Katie Patterson and Dan O’Conn—
Kyle Olson:
I watch Krissy on stage and I’m amazed, because I have no idea how she does it. And then I watch these guys and go, I don’t even know how — what is wired in your head that you can think of an improv, think of a joke, and then rewrite it in Shakespearean dialogue and deliver it in a way that we understand and laugh at.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Mandy Kaplan:
Is that an Arizona company, this Shakespearean company?
Kyle Olson:
No, they were on Game Changer.
Mandy Kaplan:
Petey Patterson and Stephen Kieran and Dan Connor? No?
Kyle Olson:
No. There might be more than one out there, but it’s Ross Bryant. He’s a frequent person on Game Changer. He brings his company in, three of them, to do an episode of Game Changer. And they do an entire Shakespeare show, including the end where — I don’t want to give it away — they basically surprise Sam with even more stuff. That stuff is fascinating to me because my brain does not work like that. You two, I don’t know how you do what you do.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, I’m rusty and out of the game, but Krissy Lenz, improv artist extraordinaire.
Kyle Olson:
And teacher.
Krissy Lenz:
Well, you’ve got writer’s brain. That’s a different brain.
Kyle Olson:
That’s true.
Krissy Lenz:
You’re seeing all the strings and pulling all the strings, and I’m just swatting around, flailing around on the stage.
Mandy Kaplan:
This is why we make a magical pair, you and me.
I want to talk about Act Three, and I want to dive into that. But first I want to tell everybody that Make Me a Nerd is a production of TruStory FM. Engineering by the peerless Pete Wright.
Kyle Olson:
Woo! He’s gonna be listening to this.
Mandy Kaplan:
My theme song is “Wonderstruck” — but don’t kiss his ass. My theme song is “Wonderstruck” by Jane and the Boy. And please, please go on Apple Podcasts, leave a five-star review and write a review. It helps more people find the podcast. That would be wonderful. And you can join the club at makemeanerd.com/join. Hitting that button will get you your episodes ad-free and early, and my eternal gratitude.
So let’s take a quick break, and on to Act Three.
Before I talk about Act Three, I want to know, have there ever been stage adaptations, full movies? You mentioned they did release a book. What other ways — you talked about the commentary, the musical — what other ways does this live?
Kyle Olson:
Do you know what a shadow cast is?
Mandy Kaplan:
I have no idea.
Krissy Lenz:
I was just gonna say shadow cast, yeah.
Kyle Olson:
Okay. Krissy, you want to talk about shadow casts?
Krissy Lenz:
It’s sort of like what they do with Rocky Horror Picture Show, if you can imagine that, where they show the movie and then there’s a cast of actors acting it out. I’ve been to a couple different Dr. Horrible shadow cast events at Comic-Cons around the country. And it’s so delightful and fun, because these are just huge fans that are getting up there and putting on their costumes, and they know every word and every nuance and every pause, and they’re acting it out as you’re watching, and the crowd is singing along. It’s so beautiful and such a fun thing to get to participate in.
Mandy Kaplan:
Fun. And I suppose now any hope of a stage play would not fly because of Joss Whedon being canceled. So nobody could say, hey, that would make a great live-action thing.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, probably not. At the time, that was all fan-run. The tiny little company, I think they created just for this, and I don’t think it has ever done anything else. Mutant Enemy was the one he did for the television shows, but they created — it was an interesting name that I came across as I was doing my research, I can’t recall it right at the moment. But they were really cool in that they wouldn’t go after anyone legally. You’ll see a lot of fandom stuff out there, and there’s a lot of stuff you won’t see ever, and that’s because there are legions of lawyers who are ready to pounce on it. So they were cool for a long time and let people do their own shadow cast, and make money, and charge admission for these things and put them up. And then one day they weren’t. The mandate came down of like, well, you had your fun. And I think the idea was that they were getting ready to do their own official version. But then it all sort of went away. So now I don’t know what would happen if you tried to do something, but I don’t think anybody’s really willing to stick their neck out.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, I’m not planning anything. I just wanted to know. Because I think I said something about, well, Sailor Moon would make a great musical, when I did a Sailor Moon episode, and my guest Johnny Lee Jr.—
Kyle Olson:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
—was like, uh, yeah, they’ve done it like seventeen times. And I was like, oh, so I’m on to something.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. There’s a Spirited Away musical that they did as well.
Mandy Kaplan:
I’m just late. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. Oh, see, I don’t know anything.
Kyle Olson:
No, no, it’s that there’s too much to know.
Krissy Lenz:
There’s too much to know.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.
Krissy Lenz:
You can’t possibly keep it all in your brain. I don’t know how Kyle does it. He’s got encyclopedic knowledge of so many things.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s infinite, this nerd-dom.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, it definitely runs out.
Mandy Kaplan:
I mean, it just —
Kyle Olson:
There’ll be a certain year — yeah, you’ll go, oh yeah, in 2022, and I’ll be like, yeah, you talk to me about ’93 and earlier, I’m good, but it’s a sliding scale.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Gotcha.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
So, top of this act I wrote, “Argh, finish a fucking song, good God.” I just want to hear a whole song. Also, because my producer mind for Miscast, I’m thinking, ooh, this could be great. Oh, it’s over. Right?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Ooh, could be — oh, it got interrupted by a different character. So that’s my own bugaboo.
Hammer — Captain Hammer kicks him to the ground, steps on him, and then for no reason is like, “Oh,” and sings this high note.
Kyle Olson:
He’s finishing the song.
Krissy Lenz:
He sings and finishes his song.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, I did — oh, so he finally finished a song.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. “Everyone’s a hero in their —”
Krissy Lenz:
“Everyone’s a hero in their —”
Kyle Olson:
And then that’s when he gets frozen. And so then when he gets unfrozen, knocks him down, and finishes his thing.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh.
Krissy Lenz:
“Way—”
Kyle Olson:
“Way!” And that’s when he flips him off too.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh God, it was very funny. I thought it was just a random high note, but that makes more sense.
And then, lo and behold, Penny gets shot and killed. And my friend Krissy Lenz and I talked about this in our last episode — I like when leading characters die. It keeps it interesting and you never know what’s gonna happen. And I was glad they didn’t bring her back. It seemed like they might. So, sorry not sorry, Penny.
Kyle Olson:
Well, okay, so what was your reaction then? When they cut to her and she’s impaled, were you like, oh no, it’s Wash all over again? Or was there a theme going on? Was it a surprise to you, where you’re like, oh, now I understand what the story is?
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, I think it’s the latter. And I like that it had high stakes like that. If it was all just silly and nothing really happened and no one was really ever in danger, I don’t know that I would have responded as much. So it just gave it all gravitas.
Krissy Lenz:
And it’s so beautiful that the last thing she says to him is, “Captain Hammer will save us.”
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-hmm.
Krissy Lenz:
And then his song at the end is so heartbreaking, when it ends with, “and I won’t feel a thing.” And then it’s just him sitting there. Oh, oh my heart.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. He’s at the party and surrounding everything and not feeling any of it. And then they cut back, and it’s just him small in the frame and alone, and it’s echoing back to the first shot that we saw.
Krissy Lenz:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yep.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And then they show us the headlines: “Country Mourns What’s-Her-Name.”
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I mean, it’s a statement about society and sensationalism, and all they care about is, well, what about Captain Hammer? Who cares about his lady love?
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. We do see Captain Hammer in therapy, so maybe he’s on the path of recovery.
Krissy Lenz:
He’s getting help. He’s working on the abs of being kind.
Kyle Olson:
That’s right.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, the abs — right. That is a great song, and I did put it on my list for Miscast, spoiler alert. And I like that the newscasters burst into the song and join in. And I do love the three psycho fans. What do they say?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
“We’ll do butt stuff”?
Kyle Olson:
“We’ll do the weird stuff.”
Mandy Kaplan:
“We’ll do the weird stuff.”
Krissy Lenz:
“We’ll do the weird stuff.”
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. That’s Maurissa, that’s one of the songwriters, is a part of that trio.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, they were very funny. I really liked them. And then — we already talked about this, but I wrote, Bad Horse is actually a horse.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, they opened up.
Mandy Kaplan:
And it’s only done in a montage where we see it, right?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Like at the Evil League meeting.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. And in that room is a bunch of the Buffy, Angel, Firefly writers, and also the two newscasters are both Buffy writer-producers. That’s Dave Fury and Marti Noxon.
Krissy Lenz:
And I —
Mandy Kaplan:
All right.
Kyle Olson:
Who also did the similar thing in the Buffy musical. They were the “I got the mustard out” guy and the one who’s trying to get out of the parking ticket.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. Yep, I remember.
And the ending is too abrupt and too sad for me.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, I love that it’s abrupt and sad.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, interesting.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah. Because there was talk of a sequel, and the cast all wanted to do it, and Joss wanted to do it, but it just never happened, and then it all faded out.
Kyle Olson:
And everybody’s career sort of exploded after this. Because after this is The Avengers, is Big Bang Theory, is, you know, How I Met Your Mother continuing on. And then Neil Patrick Harris has other side hustles like creating board games and things too. Felicia now has a daughter. They’re all doing really well, which is great.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
But unfortunately, this was — there were some comic books they put out, they’re not particularly good. I mean, no offense to the artists.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, comic books, you said?
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, they did some comic books that sort of expanded the world.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, Kyle, I asked you ten minutes ago.
Kyle Olson:
I know, and I remember, and I never mentioned that. They’re fine. It’s also hard to do a musical in a comic book, so reading the lyrics is a little bit different than actually hearing them being performed. But they’re never anything bigger than that.
Mandy Kaplan:
Gotcha.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah. So I love that it just sort of ends on a sad, sad note.
Kyle Olson:
Mm-hmm. He got everything he wanted and lost everything he actually needed.
Mandy Kaplan:
I know. Even though I don’t mind a sad ending usually, I guess because this is such a self-referential comedic piece, I was shocked it actually had that ending, you know? I inserted my own fart noises at the end. Just to keep it light.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Just to cheer myself up.
Krissy Lenz:
Good, you always gotta have those at the ready.
Kyle Olson:
Right.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I do. Any final thoughts about Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog?
Kyle Olson:
We’re curious what your final thoughts are on Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog. You said that you were not a fan of the music in the Buffy musical.
Mandy Kaplan:
No, I liked the music.
Kyle Olson:
Let’s compare and contrast, then. How — do you like this music more?
Mandy Kaplan:
I very much did. I thought this pushed more. And I think part of that is that with Buffy he was beholden to what had already been established with Buffy. So he can’t do Australia jokes — a shiny new Australia wouldn’t have worked. But I think it really works in this. Tonally, the music matched this. I thought there were just stronger songs in this. And I think perhaps because with Buffy, it’s like, well, we need a song for this character to sing in this moment, and it was predestined what had to happen in that episode. And this was like, what are our strongest songs? What are our strongest moments? Let’s explore those and make the best product we can make over here, without being beholden to anything. So I thought this was much stronger and much more my humor, and I really liked it.
Krissy Lenz:
Awesome.
Mandy Kaplan:
And now I want to —
Kyle Olson:
Yay.
Krissy Lenz:
I was so nervous that you wouldn’t, because you didn’t like the Buffy musical. So I was like, oh God, what if Mandy hates it?
Mandy Kaplan:
I like to keep everybody guessing.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, you do. You keep us on our toes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, I also think this had an anchor of a gifted musical theater performer. I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this.
Kyle Olson:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
I really like Neil Patrick Harris.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, do you?
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes, I do.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, interesting. I’m surprised it didn’t come up.
Mandy Kaplan:
I mean, he’s okay.
Krissy Lenz:
Is he in this?
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. But that goes a long way. For Buffy, there was no reliable — like, oh, we’re in good hands now, now I can sit back and relax. I mean, Sarah Michelle Gellar did her best, but she wasn’t a good singer, and she admitted that. So with this I felt like I was in much better hands. And Nathan Fillion is such a gifted actor, and he’s got such good comic sense, that even though he’s not a great singer, I bought it. I was okay with it. He did fine.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
I have a — my Nathan Fillion meeting story is very small, so it can fit in here at the end. I had heard him — just like anything else with the Firefly fandom, we were on any word. And so he said that a lot of times people will come up to him and are very overwhelmed. They’ll see, oh my god, it’s Captain Reynolds. And so he said, if you see me out and you want to come up and just say that kind of stuff and you think you have anything, all you have to do is come up to me, give me a nod, and say, “Captain.” And I’ll know and you’ll know and we’ll shake hands and move on. So I was like, oh, that’s really interesting. And so I was at a convention and he was walking around, and I was with my friends, and I walked past him and I just turned to him and I said, “Captain.” And he said, “As you were,” and then kept on walking. And all my friends went, oh, what? It was like, that’s all I needed.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, yep.
Kyle Olson:
I didn’t need to spend ten minutes gushing about Firefly and even Drive — the show had just gotten canceled before he got on this. It was just like, yeah, that was perfect. Chef’s kiss. Thank you, Nathan Fillion.
Krissy Lenz:
What a great moment!
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, you’re a Fillionaire.
Kyle Olson:
Uh-huh.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay, guys, plug away. Kyle, where can everybody hear more of you?
Kyle Olson:
I’m on a show called Craft and Chaos, which is for artists of any stripe. We’re trying to answer the question, how do you make art when it feels like the world is on fire? And it gets very, very silly. So I’m on that with super-producer Pete Wright, who I know is listening to this second after all of us.
Mandy Kaplan:
You mean the handsome Pete Wright?
Kyle Olson:
Oh, the handsome — yeah. Oh, I’m sorry, the published author, Pete —
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Krissy Lenz:
The glorious, the genius, Pete Wright.
Kyle Olson:
Wright, author of Lattice, available now on Amazon. Yeah, he’s on that show along with Ryan Dalton and the other Mandy.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes, who shall not be named. And Krissy —
Kyle Olson:
Mandy Fabian. But — I love 80s movies. Is there any podcast out there that could help me find what are the best ones?
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, it’s called The Wicked Awesome —
Krissy Lenz:
Oh.
Mandy Kaplan:
No. Now I know it. Now I know it’s called The Most Excellent 80s Movies Podcast. But I will forget it next time you’re on.
Krissy Lenz:
Most Excellent. That’s okay. It’s fun to remind you. The Most Excellent 80s Movies, which has a Mandy episode coming up — When Harry Met Sally.
Kyle Olson:
Ooh.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, I’ll have what she’s having.
Krissy Lenz:
Yep, a good one. And also Gank That Drank, a Supernatural drinking game. If you’re a fan of Supernatural, we make up drinking game rules for our favorite episodes of our favorite shows. Mandy has also been a guest on that, and the episode, Live Free or Twi-Hard, is worth checking out.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. And this is where this mutual love affair began, is you came on my show to introduce me to Supernatural.
Krissy Lenz:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
So this is —
Krissy Lenz:
Ugh, that was so fun.
Kyle Olson:
And of the thirteen seasons, where are you at this point? Are you into the three or four?
Mandy Kaplan:
I haven’t really kept up with it.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, okay.
Mandy Kaplan:
No. I mean, she gave me her curated list and I watched all the ones she told me to watch. And I think I’ve watched two more or something.
Kyle Olson:
I hadn’t listened to that episode yet. Did you recommend the musical?
Krissy Lenz:
Yes, we did. Season ten — oh, now I can’t think of what it’s called. But yeah, the “Single Man Tear” song was discussed.
Kyle Olson:
Okay. All right. Well, now I have something to add to my podcast list, as maybe some of the listeners do too.
Mandy Kaplan:
Perfect. All right. Well, thank you, listeners, and thank you, Kyle and Krissy. I adore you both. I adore all you listeners. And until next time.
