Mandy Kaplan:
Welcome to Make Me a Nerd. I’m Mandy Kaplan, a mainstream mom whose mission it is to explore the world of nerd culture that I’ve been missing out on and afraid of my whole life. What a journey I’ve been on. If you’re new to this podcast, you take a Swiftie who loves NFL and reality TV, and you start introducing her to things like Star Wars and Star Trek and D&D, and you get Make Me a Nerd. That’s what we’re here to do, is to see what a middle-aged lady thinks of all of this stuff that I’m catching up on.

So welcome aboard if you’re new. And my guest is not new. My guest is returning, having done past episodes about Labyrinth, but our friendship survived. No, not Labyrinth. What was the other one?

Jessica Jimenez:
Return to Oz.

Mandy Kaplan:
Return to Oz. Oh, I did like Return to Oz. Sorry. Krissy Lenz did Labyrinth, and our friendship survived.

Jessica Jimenez:
She did.

Mandy Kaplan:
And Showgirls, and our friendship barely survived. I mean, hanging on by a thread. And she is back to nerducate me about Pushing Daisies. It’s Jess Jimenez!

Jessica Jimenez:
Hi, I’m back. And I’m just gonna say, if there’s awards for convincing you that a show is awesome, I feel like I won on this one. I feel like I’m feeling really confident about Pushing Daisies and you liking it this time.

Mandy Kaplan:
You’ll never know. Or you won’t know for a few minutes. So Pushing Daisies was on in 2007.

Jessica Jimenez:
Seven. Seven and eight, yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
And elevator pitch it for us. What is Pushing Daisies, first of all?

Jessica Jimenez:
Pushing Daisies is a whimsical show about a pie maker who somehow has the ability to bring people back to life. But in doing so, someone else often has to pass. And through a series of events, he reconnects with his childhood sweetheart and keeps her alive. Hijinks ensue.

Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. It is essentially a fairy tale. It’s told like a fairy tale. It’s colorful. It’s really beautiful.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
When did you see it for the first time, and what do you love about it?

Jessica Jimenez:
Well, I saw it when it first came out, and I just fell—

Mandy Kaplan:
Like on ABC, old school, on your DVR, your TiVo, if you will.

Jessica Jimenez:
I don’t even know if that was around yet. I didn’t have it, at least. But I remember watching it when it came out, and I had never seen anything like it on TV before. Maybe a movie, but not on TV. And again, I always come back to the word whimsical. I just think the colors of it, the storytelling — like you said, it’s like a fairy tale. And I think, as a theater person as well, it just has such a theatrical appeal to it.

And then I re-watched it during the pandemic. So it had been years since I watched it, and I re-fell in love with it. And I watched it one more time recently, and then again watched it for this podcast. So it brings me joy every time I watch it. Even though it’s dark subject matter, there’s still so much joy that comes from it for me.

Mandy Kaplan:
I’m gonna do my best Andy Cohen trademark, and I’m gonna say our word of the day is theater.

Jessica Jimenez:
Sure.

Mandy Kaplan:
And every time we say theater, drink, because that’s gonna come up a lot. So my knowledge of this show is that back when it was on TV, I was already a nut for Tony Award-winning theater. Grand dame Kristin Chenoweth — drink. And I thought, oh my gosh, Kristin Chenoweth on a network show, yes please. I saw that it was called Pushing Daisies. I saw that it was about death. And I didn’t do it. I’ve never seen a frame.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh, wow.

Mandy Kaplan:
I’ve been very scared to see this. So for those of you who are new to my podcast and me — Jess knows this about me because we’re good friends in real life — but I have a lot of anxiety around death.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. [inaudible]

Mandy Kaplan:
And I don’t really handle it well when characters are dying or facing death or talking about the afterlife. None of that. So this was a real, like, Xanax in one hand and my computer in the other taking notes when I started.

One of the things I liked about the show, but I question about the show — so Lee Pace plays the pie maker. He has the ability to bring a body back to life for only one minute and ask it how it died, or try to solve a mystery. So he touches them on the forehead, they come to life in their mangled, burnt-to-a-crisp or deformed car accident faces, and they say, “Oh, hey, what’s up? Am I dead? Cool.” And then they give some information about their death, and then he touches them and they die again.

No one is negative or afraid or confused. And I liked that because it helped my anxiety, but I just question that. That people don’t wake up and say, “What do you mean I’m dead?” Or, “Oh no, I’m dead. Tell my husband I love him.”

Jessica Jimenez:
That’d be a different show.

Mandy Kaplan:
It would be. It would be a very different show. But how do you feel about that angle of it?

Jessica Jimenez:
You know, it really never crossed my mind. I think because the fact that he’s bringing things to life is already never explained. It just kind of sets it up for, this is how it is. I just didn’t question it. I guess it just kind of set it up that this is the way it was, and I accepted it. I just accepted it.

Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think after one or two I relaxed, because I was like, oh, it’s not gonna be about death. It’s gonna be about life.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right off the bat, the opening sequence really is very Tim Burton-esque. Do you agree?

Jessica Jimenez:
A hundred percent, yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
The colors are saturated. The world is real and tangible, but a little off. Everything looks a little fantastical. I got Edward Scissorhands vibes.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. I would say more Alice in Wonderland, just because of the colors, because Edward feels so dark. But you’re right, I guess Edward does have a lot of brightness in the suburbs of where everyone lives.

Mandy Kaplan:
Plus I’ve never seen Alice in Wonderland, so therefore it’s Edward Scissorhands.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh. That’s fine with me.

Mandy Kaplan:
You’re wrong, I’m right. Carry on.

Jessica Jimenez:
One of the things I love, and especially in rewatching it, is that you get so much information in ten minutes. The first ten minutes of, this is what’s going on with this little boy. They just set up the show so well in that first ten minutes.

Mandy Kaplan:
Well, they use a narrator to perfection. A classic narrator, Jim Dale, I believe. Am I correct? Okay. So they use him so well. And most of the episodes start with Norman — is that his name? The pie maker?

Jessica Jimenez:
Ned.

Mandy Kaplan:
Ned. But they always call him the pie maker.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes. “At this moment he’s nine years old, thirty-eight minutes,” and blah blah blah. I love how they start every episode.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. I burnt out on that, but there’s a whole other thing happening.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh, you did? Okay.

Mandy Kaplan:
So when he’s a little boy, Ned gets this ability. His dog is hit by a car and he’s so grief-stricken, and he touches the dog and the dog comes back to life. But doesn’t that kill his neighbor or something?

Jessica Jimenez:
No, that kills another animal.

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
Saving his mom kills his neighbor.

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, okay. His neighbor who’s Chuck’s dad, right?

Jessica Jimenez:
Who’s Chuck’s dad. His love interest, yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. I mean, it’s very soap opera-esque in all the twists and turns, but it is so—

Jessica Jimenez:
So convoluted.

Mandy Kaplan:
—rich and emotional and very funny. I have a lot of quotes because I think the writing is really special.

Jessica Jimenez:
Okay.

Mandy Kaplan:
And I think one of the reasons why this show comes to life and draws us in, and we fall in love with every character, is that it’s almost entirely theater actors. Drink.

Jessica Jimenez:
Drink.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes, totally. And honestly, you mentioned the narrator. One of the reasons this show came to mind for the podcast was because of one of your previous episodes. There was something with a narrator and you said, “Oh, there’s not enough shows with narrators. I love a narrator.” And I was like, ding, light bulb. I was like, we need to do Pushing Daisies. Because I was like, narrator, check. You love theater — drink — check.

And I thought — go ahead, you have to drink every time I say whimsical now, but fantastical, let’s say. I just thought it checked a lot of boxes that I thought you would like. And I hope I’m right. But yes, so many theater actors come along through the seasons, and it brings me joy every time. I’m like, oh look, there’s Raúl. Oh look, there’s—

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. It’s really beautifully acted. Theater actors — Lee Pace is a Juilliard graduate. By the way, how freaking tall is that man? He’s six foot five.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes, I love it.

Mandy Kaplan:
And I love any scene he’s in with — I don’t know how tall Anna Friel is, but any scene he’s in with Kristin Chenoweth is hilarious, because she’s four foot eleven and he’s six foot five.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh, yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
Am I saying his name right? Chi McBride? Chi McBride. I don’t know if he’s a theater actor, but he is perfection on the show.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh yeah, Emerson Cod is a great character. I love that he knits. What a weird thing to give his character, but I love that about it.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yep. Swoosie Kurtz, Ellen Greene playing the wacky aunts to perfection. And then every guest star is a Broadway luminary. So well done, whoever cast the show, which I should know and I don’t.

Jessica Jimenez:
I don’t either. But I love it.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right?

Jessica Jimenez:
It’s like watching The Gilded Age. The Gilded Age is all Broadway actors as well, which I love.

Mandy Kaplan:
Which one is that? Is that Christine Baranski?

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes. Cynthia Nixon. Jeremy watches it. You don’t watch it with him?

Mandy Kaplan:
No. First of all, I try to avoid him at all costs. No — I go to sleep so early, and then he watches a lot of stuff without me. Cami Patton casts the show. Good job, Cami Patton.

Jessica Jimenez:
Okay. Yeah. And if I remember correctly, this was Lee Pace’s role — like, that’s who they wanted. He was the guy, and I don’t think he was available, and then he became available. So it’s weird to think of someone else playing that role to me. This might have been my first exposure to Lee Pace, and I’ve been following his career ever since.

Mandy Kaplan:
You know you’re not supposed to expose yourself to Lee Pace, or to anyone. I just want to point that out. Cut that out. I don’t know him. I saw him in Bodies Bodies Bodies, and that’s it. I don’t really know Lee Pace.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh, really?

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
I mean, he’s in a lot of the newer Star Wars movies, which is funny, because at one point in one of these episodes he makes a joke about — it’s the episode where he’s fighting with a sword. I think that’s episode two or three. It’s the one with the funeral. But he’s fighting with a sword and he’s like, “I always wanted to be a Jedi.”

Mandy Kaplan:
Mm.

Jessica Jimenez:
And it’s just funny that—

Mandy Kaplan:
Now he is.

Jessica Jimenez:
—twenty-something years later, he’s now a bad guy in the Star Wars movies.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. I really don’t know him.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh, you should look into some of his stuff. He’s got some really fun stuff.

Mandy Kaplan:
Well, a lot of it is nerdy, interestingly. Guardians of the Galaxy, The Hobbit. Those are not in my purview.

Jessica Jimenez:
There you go.

Mandy Kaplan:
That’s not a word. Captain Marvel. He’s a nerd’s dream.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah, but he’s also done some arty things. There was a movie — oh, I’m never gonna remember the name of it — but basically he tells a fantasy story. He’s in a hospital and tells this fantasy story to a little girl. I’ll have to find it and send it to you later. But I remember loving that movie. Of course, I can’t remember the name. Don’t put me on the spot, Mandy, dang it.

Mandy Kaplan:
I’m not. I like Lee Pace. I’ve only seen him play dark and skeezy, so he’s so innocent and sweet here, and he’s a little wooden, which I know is intentional. But it bums me out that I didn’t get to see a full range of emotions in this first — I watched the first however many are on the first DVDs, the first nine episodes or something.

Jessica Jimenez:
Well, the reason there’s only nine episodes in season one is because of the writers’ strike. And that’s a big part of why this show unfortunately didn’t succeed. I mean, it won a ton of Emmys.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right.

Jessica Jimenez:
It was nominated, I think, almost twenty — I’m probably way off, but I think it was like twenty, and they won like seven or something ridiculous. They won a bunch of Emmys, but I think they were already cancelled.

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, that sounds familiar.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. So it was really a bummer for fans, because we were left so unsatisfied. I know you didn’t see season two, but there’s so many things unresolved. And they tried to put it into a nice little package in the last episode, but there’s just so many things like, what about this? What about this? Which I don’t want to tell you, in case you decide to pursue season two.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.

Jessica Jimenez:
So, initial feelings — you got into episode one, it’s a lot of information, but you were in it? Or you’re like, we’ll see?

Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Fun fact, Pete — sting. The show was nominated for fifty-seven awards and won eighteen of them, including seven Primetime Emmy Awards, with two short seasons.

Jessica Jimenez:
Wow. I was right with seven.

Mandy Kaplan:
That’s crazy.

Jessica Jimenez:
I pulled that out, I don’t know where.

Mandy Kaplan:
Chenoweth won for Best Supporting Actress. Oh, good for them.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh, that’s so good. And she’s great. My only complaint about her — I hate her clothes in this show. I love Chuck’s clothes. I think she is dressed so vintagey and cute. I don’t know what they put Olive Snook in. I hate her clothes.

Mandy Kaplan:
I take umbrage with that.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh no.

Mandy Kaplan:
I liked her clothes. But I did make a note about Chuck’s dresses, and that I want every single one of them.

Jessica Jimenez:
Right? But it’s like, what is Olive wearing? That zip-up thing as a waist?

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
I hated that. You liked that?

Mandy Kaplan:
Yes, she’s perfection.

Jessica Jimenez:
No. Well, you can have her clothes. I’ll take Chuck’s.

Mandy Kaplan:
Side note, her hair is amazing. I would never have the guts, but her cute little bob — Chenoweth, oh, I love it.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. Which is funny, because in episode one her hair is long. So obviously time had passed between the pilot and the second episode, because I was like, gosh, I remember her having short hair. And then when I saw the second episode, I was like, oh, okay, I wasn’t crazy. It was just one episode she had long hair.

Mandy Kaplan:
Well, there’s a chance you’re crazy.

Jessica Jimenez:
But—

Mandy Kaplan:
That has nothing to do with her hair.

Jessica Jimenez:
I mean, yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
All right. When we come back from this break, we’re gonna start breaking down these episodes and all our thoughts and the things we love, after this.

Hey, while I have your attention, let me tell you that Make Me a Nerd is a production of TruStory FM, engineering by the peerless Pete Wright, my pie maker. That makes no sense, but I wanted to say it. My theme song is “Wonderstruck” by Jane and the Boy. On Instagram you can get me at Mandy underscore Kaplan underscore Klavens, both with K’s, or on TikTok at Mandy Miscast. And if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, please take a minute and write a review. It helps more people find the podcast. And if you’re feeling really supportive, join the club as a member. Go to makemeanerd.com/join, and that will get you your episodes ad-free and early, and my eternal gratitude.

Episode one. So this was chock full, this episode, because they had to give us all the backstory and then bring us up to speed in the present. And did you recognize the guest star playing the owner of the travel boutique? Miscast’s very own Julie Whitner.

Jessica Jimenez:
No way!

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
I did not know that.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yes, she was so fantastic.

Jessica Jimenez:
Well, that must have been a fun surprise for you.

Mandy Kaplan:
It was great. Yeah, a lot of friends on the show.

Jessica Jimenez:
Well, episode two I knew. I was like, I don’t want to say anything, I wanted you to be surprised.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Yes. So he finds — I don’t even remember the plot, because I watched it over a week ago — but he finds Chuck and brings her back to life and can’t bear to touch her again and kill her.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
And then eventually in this pilot episode he tells her, “I can bring people back to life. I brought you back to life.” And the relief I felt that it wasn’t going to be the secret he kept for the whole series. I’m so sick of books and shows where somebody’s got a secret and they almost tell them and then they can’t. This doesn’t truck in that, as Tommy Metz says.

Jessica Jimenez:
No. I mean, that episode really gives you, like you said, so much information, but I never felt overwhelmed. It was like, oh, okay, this makes sense. This makes sense. Okay. I really think it’s such a solid first episode pilot. No notes.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
Well, your notes — I know you have notes. Give me your notes.

Mandy Kaplan:
No, I don’t have notes. I was just so pleased by that. That’s the easy way to go, right? Having a secret is a big dramatic ploy, and they just didn’t use it, and that is so much more interesting to me.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes, for sure.

Mandy Kaplan:
And then the first line of dialogue, he says, “I hate to be a bad host, but I’m sort of exhausted from chasing your coffin.” I just delight in the dialogue.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. One of the things I also love is how the narrator will be like, “Ned was confused,” and then it cuts to Ned: “I’m confused.” I always love that repetitiveness with the narrator.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. I mean, we’ve seen it done before. It’s not a new convention, but it is really amusing and keeps it light, keeps it bouncy. This thing had so many twists. My head was spinning, but it was all good. It didn’t feel cheap or like, wait, I’m just catching up. I enjoyed it. It was like a thinking man’s soap opera with the twists and turns.

Jessica Jimenez:
Right. Well, because it’s a fairy tale, but it’s also a murder mystery.

Mandy Kaplan:
And I liked that.

Jessica Jimenez:
Every episode there’s a mystery to solve. So it’s again one of those shows that I just hadn’t seen, where it was all those things combined — a fantasy and murder mystery and romance. I feel like it’s a show that a family could watch together, because even though it’s dark subject matter, it’s done so lightheartedly that teens could watch this with their parents, kind of a show.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, I don’t see why not. So you mentioned that it’s a murder mystery each week, like Murder, She Wrote or any one of those procedurals, actually. That was my lesser favorite part of the show. I was so invested in Chuck and Ned and Emerson Cod and Olive Snook and the aunts — and I loved the guy, what do you call him, coroner? I loved every character. So when we met the wacky case of the week, I was less invested.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh, interesting. Okay. Again, I loved it all. I’m super invested in the characters. But you need something to drive each episode. But no, I can see that, out of all the layers this show has.

Mandy Kaplan:
And these mysteries that they do — let’s get to episode two. So convoluted, these plots. It’s like a choose your own adventure. Yes, and yes, and yes, and — that was less interesting to me.

Jessica Jimenez:
Okay.

Mandy Kaplan:
But episode two stars our dear friend Patrick Fabian.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes, I didn’t want to tell you. Did you know he was in it?

Mandy Kaplan:
No.

Jessica Jimenez:
Okay, so I was like, don’t say anything, don’t say anything. So that must have been a fun little surprise.

Mandy Kaplan:
It was a very fun surprise. He always plays an asshole. And he’s Patrick Fabian — for those who don’t know, he was Howard on Better Call Saul.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
And Professor Lasky on Saved by the Bell: The College Years.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
But he’s the nicest guy in the whole wide world. He’s like family to me, but he always plays smarmy, gross, lying, dirty characters. This episode was no exception. He’s like a car salesman, and gross. But the cars — what was the car called? It was a butterfly?

Jessica Jimenez:
It was made out of dandelions.

Mandy Kaplan:
Dandelion.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
They look futuristic, but they also look very fake and plasticky.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
And that got me thinking, when the hell does this take place? There is no time period for Pushing Daisies, is there?

Jessica Jimenez:
No. Because it’s not like they’re using cell phones or computers. Even by the vehicles they drive, you wouldn’t get an actual sense. Or the way they dress. I kind of like that it’s evergreen.

Mandy Kaplan:
Isn’t that nice?

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
And the lack of technology is just a dream.

Jessica Jimenez:
I know, it really is.

Mandy Kaplan:
Watching characters text — nothing worse.

Jessica Jimenez:
Agree. Agree. One thing I would say — you were talking about being convoluted — the one character, did they have to give her a bulimia storyline? I thought that was so weird rewatching it. I was like, what, why? But okay. That was one thing that bumped me watching the second episode. At least they were like, “I hope she gets help.”

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
So, okay, positive spin, I guess, on the end.

Mandy Kaplan:
I know. They cram a lot in, but that’s the nature of this show.

Jessica Jimenez:
I guess it’s not the only thing.

Mandy Kaplan:
You were describing how many genres it covered, and it does try to cram a little bit of everything in. Which I think is wonderful, because there’s something for everybody. But I think it could be Coco Chanel’d, and two pieces could be removed at times.

Jessica Jimenez:
Agreed. I could see that for sure.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
I actually thought one of the first things you would say about episode two was the cheese box.

Mandy Kaplan:
A cheese box? Yes, please. That is exactly what I wrote — my first note after Patrick Fabian.

Jessica Jimenez:
As soon as I rewatched, I was like, oh, Mandy’s gonna want a cheese box now.

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, she wants it bad, Jess.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. For those who don’t know, they call their refrigerator a cheese box. All they put in it is cheese.

Mandy Kaplan:
For the two aunts. This is Ellen Greene and Swoosie Kurtz.

Jessica Jimenez:
The two aunts, yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
A one-eyed Swoosie Kurtz.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh God, she’s so good. I just love this role for her.

Mandy Kaplan:
It’s all good. And this is the first episode after the pilot, so it’s the second in the series, and Kristin Chenoweth already starts singing. And of course I love it.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes. Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
I want to take a minute to talk about Kristin Chenoweth on this show.

Jessica Jimenez:
Okay.

Mandy Kaplan:
If you had to describe her, wouldn’t you describe her as a larger-than-life personality?

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
Bubbly. Big characters, funny voice, quirky, quirky, quirky.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
Not Olive Snook.

Jessica Jimenez:
No.

Mandy Kaplan:
What a brilliant performance.

Jessica Jimenez:
Olive, yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
She’s understated and vulnerable. So Olive Snook works at the pie shop with Ned and is just pining away for him and loving him and resenting Chuck’s arrival at the pie shop.

Jessica Jimenez:
Mm-hmm.

Mandy Kaplan:
But she’s not a villain. She’s not of shallow character.

Jessica Jimenez:
No, you feel terrible for her. She’s so in love with Ned and he just has no interest.

Mandy Kaplan:
And then she also ends up really deeply caring about Chuck and getting invested in their romance.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes. She’s a layered character in this, because you’re not rooting for her, but you kind of are rooting for her. Because I think deep down everyone wants Chuck and Ned to be together, but you’re also like, oh, but poor Olive, she deserves some love.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. I loved her.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, it’s a beautiful performance.

Jessica Jimenez:
She deserved the Emmy. Good for her.

Mandy Kaplan:
And then they pair her a few episodes later with Emerson Cod, and they become like the Jack and Karen of the show.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
And they are hilarious together.

Jessica Jimenez:
“What’s the poop?”

Mandy Kaplan:
My mom says that.

Jessica Jimenez:
She always says “what’s the poop” instead of “the scoop.” She cracks me up. Oh, so maybe it didn’t crack you up then.

Mandy Kaplan:
No, sidebar — my mom ends phone calls by going, “So that’s the poop. I’ll talk to you later.” And it’s like, oh God, could you stop saying that? But she is who she is.

Jessica Jimenez:
Whoops.

Mandy Kaplan:
So one thing I was thinking around this time was what an incredible book this would have made, if Pushing Daisies had been written as a series of romantic novels.

Jessica Jimenez:
Mm.

Mandy Kaplan:
Then all those details wouldn’t feel so crammed in to me. Because in a book you can explore each thing. Wouldn’t this have made a great book?

Jessica Jimenez:
I loved it. It’s such a — I think it would be a light read, but the mystery would keep you going. And you could have probably explored a lot more than we got in these two short seasons.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yep. And I believe I saw — there’s a short comic book to continue season three, but nothing ever materialized. But they thought maybe it would live on as comic books.

Jessica Jimenez:
Well, season three is coming.

Mandy Kaplan:
Okay, what do you know?

Jessica Jimenez:
They announced it earlier this year. So that’s also one of the reasons why I wanted to do Pushing Daisies, because it’s coming back after almost twenty years. In 2027 it’s supposed to come back, and the cast — excuse me, I got emotional there — no, the cast is all for it. Bryan Fuller is charging ahead with it. So it was announced maybe in the spring, I think. Which was funny, because I had just done my rewatch of it and I was like, I did that. I did that. I manifested that.

Mandy Kaplan:
Well, thank you for that.

Jessica Jimenez:
You’re welcome, everyone.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, while promoting his new film Dust Bunny, Fuller spoke with ComicBook and shared encouraging news about the future. So this was in 2025. He said the cast was willing and he has a new pitch.

Jessica Jimenez:
Mm-hmm.

Mandy Kaplan:
So maybe you have more recent news than that?

Jessica Jimenez:
I feel like it was full-on announced. If you go to IMDb even, it’s on there. But maybe I’m wrong. But I’ll take whatever hope I can hold on to for that show. Because again, you’re left so unsatisfied. I mean, I don’t want to say completely unsatisfied, but there were just so many things that were set up that never got a fair shot. I don’t want to jump ahead if you want to go episode by episode, but there’s things with Emerson that you’re just like, what happens with him? You started the storyline, and where does it go? Because he’s one of my favorite characters.

Mandy Kaplan:
But that’s the shitty thing about cancel culture — and I don’t mean cancel about — no, everyone’s on such a short leash. No one’s allowed time to develop. And if you don’t have the numbers initially, you’re done. And it leaves true fans, and this show has a crazy passionate fandom—

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
—it leaves all those nerds with unanswered questions. It’s cruel.

Jessica Jimenez:
It’s so cruel. And I am really curious how they’re going to pick it up. Are they gonna continue where they left off? I’m assuming time will have passed. I’m really excited to see what they throw out for this third season, twenty years later.

Mandy Kaplan:
I have a deep fear about it, and I will share it when we come back.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
Welcome back. I’m so glad you came back. We were talking about a season three of Pushing Daisies. And Kristin Chenoweth looks very, very different. She has gone down the plastic surgery path. I don’t know about Anna Friel, but my fear is that it’ll look more like a Real Housewives than this innocent, sweet, whimsical fairy tale that we love.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah, I really don’t know. They’re gonna have to address the time passage. There’s no way they can just pick off — everyone looks fifteen to twenty years older at this point. I’m sure Lee Pace is not gonna look as sweet and innocent as he used to, or Anna. Who knows what Emerson Cod looks like? I don’t even know, is the coroner still alive? He looked pretty old. Who, by the way, I read back in the day that if more seasons had happened, he was supposed to be a bigger character. They were gonna open up his storyline, which I would have loved to know, because he was fun, that little coroner. Barely had any lines, but I wanted to know more.

Mandy Kaplan:
No, he got a lot of funny, sassy lines.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh yeah, but I’m just saying, to eventually have an episode that would really explore how he came to be — I was looking forward to that.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Well, he is alive, so we can hold out hope.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes. What about Jim Dale?

Mandy Kaplan:
His name is Sy Richardson.

Jessica Jimenez:
What about Jim Dale?

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh.

Jessica Jimenez:
The narrator.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, that I’m not sure of.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
I can ask my research department.

Jessica Jimenez:
Doo doo doo.

Mandy Kaplan:
I mean, he’s been around forever and ever.

Jessica Jimenez:
Didn’t he narrate the Harry Potter books?

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. And it looks like he is alive.

Jessica Jimenez:
Okay, okay, we’ve got a show.

Mandy Kaplan:
He’s getting on. Okay.

Jessica Jimenez:
Okay, we’ve got a show. Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. Well, episode three starts with Raúl Esparza. You mentioned him earlier — theater legend.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
And there are also shots of Emerson Cod in his office, which is lit exactly like Veronica Mars’ dad’s office.

Jessica Jimenez:
You’re right.

Mandy Kaplan:
With the blinds and the noir, right?

Jessica Jimenez:
Very noir. Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
And I wouldn’t have known this without my nerducation and my past episode on Veronica Mars with Sloan Just, who — I watched many episodes of Veronica Mars, and then she said it’s supposed to be a noir, and I was like, oh, I get it now.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
So Pushing Daisies, to count the genres, is romance, murder mystery, thriller, fantasy, fairy tale, and noir. There’s a lot of noir.

Jessica Jimenez:
And they really touch on everything, and the storylines are fun and can tie into those different genres. Yeah, I don’t really have a lot of notes on this show. It makes me happy.

Mandy Kaplan:
Well, one of the biggest storylines that is throughout and is heartbreaking is that he can’t touch Chuck.

Jessica Jimenez:
I know, right.

Mandy Kaplan:
They love each other deeply. They are childhood friends. They are in love. And they can’t touch, or she will die.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
Because once he brings a body back to life, if he touches it again, that’s it.

Jessica Jimenez:
Gone forever.

Mandy Kaplan:
Curtains. Right. So watching them negotiate that is heartbreaking and heartwarming.

Jessica Jimenez:
And the sexual tension is pretty hot, I would say, as well. Just not being able to touch the person that you want to touch — ooh, come on. That’s sexy.

Mandy Kaplan:
It’s what I’m feeling right now through this StreamYard situation.

Jessica Jimenez:
But they get creative, right? She holds up a plastic film to kiss him on the lips, and he fixes his car so she can have a glove so they can hold hands. Or they hug themselves.

Mandy Kaplan:
At the end of one episode, they’re each holding their own hands behind their back. I’m demonstrating.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
Now we’re both demonstrating. And the narrator says, but they were each pretending they were holding each other’s hands. Or the bee suits, when they dance in the bee suits head to toe and they can dance.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes. It’s so sweet. And I think it’s in episode four where she falls and he has to stand back. He can’t catch her because he knows that’s it, she’ll die.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.

Jessica Jimenez:
Heartbreaking. But also, they still are choosing each other, and that says a lot. They still choose each other even though they don’t have to. They could move on, but they love each other.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yep. Right. And he does — it’s not really a love triangle proper, but he thinks about Olive Snook, and they share a little kiss, and he’s having some confusion about that. Which I like, because I would choose Olive Snook. I love her so much.

Jessica Jimenez:
Mm-hmm.

Mandy Kaplan:
But yeah, watching them negotiate their romance. And friendship. They’re just really good friends, too.

This is another episode where he tells the truth. I’m in episode three — four is Pigeon?

Jessica Jimenez:
Four is Pigeon.

Mandy Kaplan:
I’m in three still.

Jessica Jimenez:
Okay.

Mandy Kaplan:
He tells the funeral director the truth. Right?

Jessica Jimenez:
Mm-hmm.

Mandy Kaplan:
So, look, you and I meet a lot of people in our lives. I’ve never met someone who’s like, “Here’s the deal, I brought you back to life,” or “I can bring people back to life.” But he does, and that’s the writers challenging themselves. And I really like that, because then you have to write your way out of that, and that’s tough. It’s next level.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. It’s a really talented group of writers on this show, for sure.

Mandy Kaplan:
So here’s my only negative, and it is not a big one, but episode four, Pigeon — this is where I started to wish I wasn’t binging it. It is not a great show to binge.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh yeah, I could see that.

Mandy Kaplan:
It’s very repetitive. It’s very over-the-top things. If I had a week in between — it’s like a really rich dessert that you want one bite of, and then you want to put it back in the fridge and have another bite the next day.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah, a hundred percent understand that. And I also think, because the colors are so — it’s just a lot going on for you to watch at once, back to back to back. Not just the repetitiveness, but it’s a lot of stimulation at once, I think. It’s not just a relaxed kind of show. You’re in it.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. And I called the color saturated, but really all of it is saturated. The emotions, the storytelling — it’s just intense. Not in a bad way. But I wished I had been watching it with a week in between.

Jessica Jimenez:
No, I agree. In binging in preparation for this podcast, I also kind of felt like, okay, three episodes, I gotta take a little break. Even though I love it, it’s not as special when you binge it, to me. It takes kind of the specialness away.

Mandy Kaplan:
I agree. That second bite of that amazing dessert, it’s like, oh, now it’s heavy and it’s too much.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
So leave it to me to make a food analogy.

Jessica Jimenez:
Why are we not eating pie while we’re doing this?

Mandy Kaplan:
I know. There’s a lot of good food in this. But while we’re talking about binging — that’s such a thing these days. Everybody’s binging shows, and then they’re listening to podcasts and doing rewatch podcasts. And there is a terrific one called We Are Liars, if you’re into Pretty Little Liars. This is hosted by Michelle Rubinstein of the Movie Friends podcast, who has been on my podcast, and her partner, Liz Daly. And they are just charming. Their concept is similar to this, in that Liz Daly is obsessed with Pretty Little Liars and Michelle is experiencing it for the first time with her, and they’re discussing it. It’s a total treat if any of you out there are big Pretty Little Liars fans. See, I clearly am not, but I’m a fan of this podcast. It’s just a total treat. Check it out on the Total Betty Podcast Network.

Jessica Jimenez:
Ooh, I’ll have to check that out. That sounds fun.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yes, they are delightful.

We were talking about pie. There’s a pie in this episode that I am hot for. Pear with the Gruyère crust.

Jessica Jimenez:
Right, doesn’t that sound fascinating?

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
Right? I know.

Mandy Kaplan:
I’m a big fan of the fruit and cheese, like a slice of cheddar on an apple pie, and this is just next level for that.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. It’s delicious. I mean, all the pies. I don’t know who did the food design on that show, but everything — I’m not even a huge pie person, and I still want to take a bite of everything I see on that show.

Mandy Kaplan:
I’m not a big pie person either. I prefer a cake or a donut or something like that.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. A pastry, yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
Sure. But they also actually eat on the show.

Jessica Jimenez:
They do. I know that’s a big thing for you.

Mandy Kaplan:
Big pet peeve.

Jessica Jimenez:
They eat a lot on this show, yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
They do. Characters actually take big real bites of food and chew it and swallow it, and it’s satisfying. We want to eat, and they’re actually eating.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. And that’s one of the things — for those who haven’t seen the show, Ned brings things back to life, and that includes fruit. So a piece of rotted fruit, he can touch it, and now it is the most delicious fresh strawberry. But he can’t eat his own pies, because if he takes a bite, it rots in his mouth again. So it’s kind of fun to see that he doesn’t actually get to eat that often, because he knows the consequences.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right. And then there is a health inspection in one episode, and they walk in the freezer and it’s all dead rotted fruit.

Jessica Jimenez:
The freezer. Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
Pigeon was too convoluted for me. Was this the one with Jayma Mays and the—

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes, and the pilot who crashes.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right. This just had too much, too many historical references, trying to relate to the current prison breakouts, and plus what was going on with Ned and Chuck. I was just a little lost.

But this is when the feeling washed over me that Pushing Daisies is of my favorite genre of books and shows and movies, in that it is a bunch of very flawed people that we love doing the best they can, and they make mistakes and they hurt each other, but we are rooting for everyone anyway.

Jessica Jimenez:
Agreed. I think that’s a great way to summarize the characters on this show. Let’s just end the podcast here. Done. Mandy did it. Boom.

Mandy Kaplan:
I won. Yeah, I think that’s — and case in point is Olive Snook, which I know we touched on, but she is flawed. She does some shitty things, right?

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
She’s not a little Miss Perfect, but we get why, and we root for her, and we root for all of them.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
That is the ultimate. That’s my jam.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. Good. Good. See, I’m feeling good. This is no Showgirls. This is not a Showgirls repeat. I’m trying to get out of that Showgirls hole. I don’t think you’ll ever forgive me.

Mandy Kaplan:
Never forgive you. Who is your favorite of our regular characters? If they got a spin-off show, which one do you want to have a spin-off show?

Jessica Jimenez:
I mean, I want the aunts. I love their dynamic. I think they are so interesting. And we learn more about them in season two. But yeah, totally the aunts. How about you?

Mandy Kaplan:
I gotta go Emerson Cod and Olive Snook. But as that Jack and Karen chemistry — does that continue in season two? I didn’t get to watch season two.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes. I’m trying to think. I wish I would have rewatched season two now, so it’d be fresher. Nothing stands out in particular, but Olive is definitely part of that group now investigating murders. She’s like a junior detective, I think they call her later.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
And season two, Emerson — they touched a little bit about it, jumping ahead to episode nine, where you learn that he has a daughter. Emerson.

Mandy Kaplan:
What?

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah, in one of the episodes — it’s the very last episode. He kind of casually mentions it, because Chuck is missing her dad. She’s found out that Ned had something to do with that, and Emerson’s like, “Well, as a father—” And it’s like, sorry, what? You’re a father? And so that’s explored in season two, but again, never satisfied with how it really — because again, it got cancelled.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. And also in this episode, the final episode, you learn who Charlotte’s — or Chuck’s, I should say — real mother is. And that’s explored more in season two.

Mandy Kaplan:
Wait, we learned that in season one?

Jessica Jimenez:
Yes, the— Did you not watch episode nine?

Mandy Kaplan:
I thought I did. I thought I watched them all.

Jessica Jimenez:
Do you want me to tell you how it ends?

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.

Jessica Jimenez:
So, you know how Chuck has been spiking the pies with feel-good stuff from Raúl? So Olive makes the pie but doesn’t know the ratio, so she just dumps all of that feel-goodness stuff in there. And Swoosie Kurtz’s character eats the entire pie, and so she’s trippin’, and she’s just kind of sitting there talking to a floating mermaid, and she’s like, “Well yeah, ’cause I’m Chuck’s mom.” And it’s like, dun dun dun.

Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.

Jessica Jimenez:
And that’s how season one kind of ends.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I stopped taking notes, because a lot of my notes were just like, “Oh, I like this part.” So I didn’t have the notes, but I did watch it all.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
The line, “Well, headgear was a form of birth control” — he says, “You had crooked teeth?” “No, they thought it was a form of birth control.” I love that.

And then there’s another heartbreaking element to the show. This is the worst one. He can’t pet his dog.

Jessica Jimenez:
I was gonna bring that up.

Mandy Kaplan:
Digby.

Jessica Jimenez:
Poor freaking Digby. What a great little pup. I loved him.

Mandy Kaplan:
You would die.

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh yeah, I couldn’t do it. But they have an understanding. They know. Digby knows.

Mandy Kaplan:
And he has a hand that he pulls out — it’s like one of those back scratchers — and he’ll rub Digby with it for a minute. It’s sweet, but oh, it would kill me not to pet my cats.

Jessica Jimenez:
That reminds me, we didn’t talk about the dog episode, which had your boyfriend Joel McHale in it.

Mandy Kaplan:
My boyfriend Joel McHale.

Jessica Jimenez:
Joel McHale, yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
Interestingly, he looked a little too young. I like today’s Joel McHale. Like Scream 7 Joel McHale. He’s so chiseled and handsome, and I don’t know how old he is, probably fifty-two or something, and he is at his peak hotness.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. He Clooney’d.

Mandy Kaplan:
He did.

Jessica Jimenez:
He totally Clooney’d.

Mandy Kaplan:
He is. He still is. I loved it. But that was one of the episodes that was just too much. He had three wives and there were dogs and there were—

Jessica Jimenez:
Oh, I love the dog episode.

Mandy Kaplan:
It was just too much.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. What did you think about the Paul Reubens character?

Mandy Kaplan:
This is where I was paying less attention, honestly, because it was towards the end of the season and I had watched them all in a row and I was a little burnt out. So he was in that jockey episode?

Jessica Jimenez:
No, he is in episode seven, the one about smelling.

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely was paying less attention. I apologize.

Jessica Jimenez:
Well, so what’s interesting is that he can smell that Chuck smells like death. And he’s like, “Why do you smell like death?” And so that comes into play in season two as well. Is he gonna be able to figure out who she is? Dun dun dun.

Mandy Kaplan:
Because everyone knows Chuck is dead. They had a funeral and she’s gone, so she can’t just return. She can’t talk to her aunts. She can’t just parade about town. So she wears sunglasses. And sometimes a cute little scarf on her head.

Jessica Jimenez:
Totally.

Mandy Kaplan:
And now no one knows who she is.

Jessica Jimenez:
Just like Clark Kent and Superman. You can’t tell when he has those glasses on. Totally different look.

Mandy Kaplan:
Totally different. It’s so true. That’s, you know, not based on a true story.

Jessica Jimenez:
No, not at all. But in the later episodes, Raúl comes back and is kind of a love interest for Olive, which is fun.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. That gave me hope.

Jessica Jimenez:
And yeah, I mean—

Mandy Kaplan:
But one time she kisses him, and then it turns out that was just a dream sequence or something, and that was a bummer.

Jessica Jimenez:
Mm-hmm. She meets a new guy in season two.

Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.

Jessica Jimenez:
So again, I’m so curious how they’ll deal with that in season three. Fingers crossed.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right.

Jessica Jimenez:
But yeah, it’s one of those shows that — again, I agree that it’s not the most bingeable show. It’s like three episodes, and then it’s like, okay, okay, now I want to go back in and watch more. Because I also felt that rewatching it. But I still love it.

Mandy Kaplan:
I loved it too. And there’s a lot of theatrical moments. There’s some music. Ellen Greene and Chenoweth end up singing in the backseat of a car, which is like a dream come true for us theater girls. And it is a beautiful show, and it is essentially very positive, very hopeful, very loving. Yes, there’s a lot of death, but the bad guys aren’t real scary. It’s just a lovely, lovely show, and I never would have tried it without your encouragement.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yay!

Mandy Kaplan:
So thank you for making me a nerd.

Jessica Jimenez:
I’m glad you enjoyed it.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. I really, really did.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
What’s not to enjoy?

Jessica Jimenez:
I know, right?

Mandy Kaplan:
If you have a heart, you will love Pushing Daisies.

Jessica Jimenez:
I’ll agree. Everyone, it’s unfortunately not streaming anywhere. You either have to get your hands on a DVD or buy it, but it’s worth it. And it’s something I go back to — I’ve watched it now four times in a row. I probably would have watched it more back in the day, but it wasn’t streaming, and I don’t think I had a DVD player even back then.

Mandy Kaplan:
All right. Well, if you’re listening to this, reach out to me on socials. I will send you the DVDs of the first season. I have them. Jess, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast.

Jessica Jimenez:
Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Mandy Kaplan:
You are always a delight. I love you so much. And thank you all for listening. You are all a delight. Reach out and let me know what you want me to become nerducated about. I’ll do it. I’ll pander.