Mandy Kaplan:
Hello everybody, and welcome to Make Me a Nerd. Oh, I should be doing this in a more mysterious voice this time. Welcome to Make Me a Nerd. I’m Mandy Kaplan, a mainstream mom whose mission it is to explore the world of nerd culture that I’ve been missing out on and afraid of my whole life. If you’re new to the show, welcome. Here’s my deal. I truly have avoided sci-fi and fantasy, and all my friends and family and colleagues love it. So one person and one entity at a time, they’re coming on to get me to be nerdy about the thing they love.
This guest, she is a member of the TruStory FM family, so we have circled each other a little bit. In other words, I stalked her. And she agreed. So I’m very, very excited to have Chelsea Stardust on my show. And I want to tell you guys a little bit about her. But first, I had promised that I would read Apple reviews if people wrote them, so I want to read a new Apple review from Pear Is Tech Sis. Oh, I guess that’s Paris, Texas. I get it. But it’s spelled Pear Is Texas. Anywho, they say a podcast is generally a place where a self-proclaimed expert speaks down to their listeners, inviting the audience to come and gaze upon their glory. Mandy Kaplan takes a better, higher path, the one of humility. She lays her lack of experience out for all to see and offers a different experience for listeners. A chance to learn and grow together. That Mandy is also a person with great charisma and a wonderful personality is an added bonus to the journey.
Thank you, Paris, Texas. That is so kind of you. I mean, I’m usually a big fat know-it-all when it comes to the housewives or fantasy football. But when it comes to sci-fi and fantasy, I need nerds to come nerdicate me. And this nerd, you guys, Chelsea Stardust, made her directorial debut with the science fiction thriller All That We Destroy, which is part of the Blumhouse series Into the Dark. Major, major words I’m saying here. Her second feature film, horror comedy Satanic Panic, was written by novelist Grady Hendrix — My Best Friend’s Exorcism, The Final Girl Support Group, and the one I read that we can talk about, The Southern Book Club’s Guide to Slaying Vampires. I know I mentioned it on my episode about Twilight.
Chelsea also produced and co-directed the feature film Grind, created by Bray Grant and Ed Doherty, which had its world premiere at South by Southwest in 2020. That is so exciting. Chelsea also produced a commercial for the popular brand Loungefly, which is owned by Funko. She directed the music video Bloodbather for the indie rock band Cursive. She is a published writer, and her work has been featured in several books and online publications. Last but not least, she is the co-host of the podcast Sitting in the Dark with friend of my show and friend of my life, Tommy Metz III. Oh my god, she’s so accomplished. I don’t know why she agreed to do this. Ladies and gentlemen, Chelsea Stardust!
Chelsea Stardust:
Hello. Oh my God, what an intro.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, how do you do all of this? So much of this is — I’ve made a feature film. It takes over your whole life for years.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes, it is a lot. I’m just always working, always doing something. Being a multi-hyphenate is key. So director, writer, producer, doing podcasts, I have a book club, I have a board game group. I’m just always very busy with very nerdy things.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes, which I love. Now, can we talk about Grady Hendrix for a moment?
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I’m so impressed that that was a partnership because I found that book in a bookstore and I read it not really knowing it was very zeitgeist. He’s very — it’s a man, Grady Hendrix?
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Very, very popular. He’s really got his finger on the pulse of what’s selling. Vampires, book clubs, and all of these things. How did that partnership come to be?
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah, so he wrote the script for Satanic Panic, not based on one of his books. It is original from him as a screenplay. And I had the opportunity to direct it. But I remember when I first read the script, I had a couple of notes. And I was really scared to give them to him because I was such a fan of his writing.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.
Chelsea Stardust:
How do you give a novelist like Grady Hendrix notes? I did give them to him and he was so gracious and executed them for me. I loved collaborating with him. He was so wonderful. He got to come to set when we first started shooting. We had dinner together, we did a table read together, and since then have remained friends. And I’ve been lucky enough to have him as a guest at my book club here in Los Angeles. He’s just so wonderful and so smart. And if you ever get a chance to see him speak live in person, you must go. He does that sometimes at film festivals. You have to see it because he’s just so — just watching Grady is just incredible.
Mandy Kaplan:
Very cool. So cool. And where can people see Satanic Panic? That’s streaming, right?
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah. My first movie, All That We Destroy, is on Hulu, and then Satanic Panic, you can rent anywhere. It should be on Apple and all of those platforms.
Mandy Kaplan:
Great. Everybody go do that. Okay. So I reached out, as I always do, and I say, what are you passionate about? What would you like to nerdicate me about? And you pretty quickly said X-Files. And this was a hot commodity, Chelsea. Others have asked. So I’m excited to do it with you.
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh my goodness.
Mandy Kaplan:
And then you sent me some highlight episodes to watch.
Chelsea Stardust:
So many. I sent you so many. I’m so sorry.
Mandy Kaplan:
No, don’t be sorry. That’s passion, right? So, but first, I always watch a pilot.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I am like this freakish 50-plus-year-old woman who’s never seen anything of the X-Files. So I was coming at it like a newborn baby. So here is the summary of the pilot. Nope, it’s just a summary of the series, I guess. I didn’t write the summary of the pilot, because I’m smart. But it does say it’s based on true stories right at the top.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Not really the case though.
Chelsea Stardust:
Squishy.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s a bit of a James Frey. So Chris Carter, the creator, researched urban legends, folklore, government conspiracy theories, and real-life scientific phenomena to inspire some stories. But it’s not based on true stories.
Chelsea Stardust:
Depends on who you ask.
Mandy Kaplan:
For real, discussion.
Chelsea Stardust:
Well, I think it’s taking a lot of things we talk about in pop culture, but just stories that are passed down. Looking into obviously Roswell, I think he’s doing a deep dive into things and pulling these different threads. And so, you know, people saying, oh, some people thought for the longest time Bigfoot is real. I just saw a documentary, Bigfoot is not real. I’m so sorry. But I think he’s just pulling from all of these things that a lot of people have heard of, some stories people haven’t heard of. Just taking general folklore and UFOs. The whole thing with the credits is “the truth is out there” and “I want to believe.” So I think he just wants to have the audience connect with these stories through these great protagonists that we have.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Although none of the episodes you chose for me had anything to do with aliens, which is what I thought X-Files was about.
Chelsea Stardust:
Correct.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Alright.
Chelsea Stardust:
Except for kind of the pilot. The pilot is that.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. A good point. The pilot — they are called to a small town in the Pacific Northwest. My first thought is vampires? Aliens? Like what’s up with the Pacific Northwest? Coming off that Twilight episode, I was like, what? I would not move up there. I mean, it’s better than Florida, for the love of Christ. But yeah, they go up to investigate this — mysterious kids are disappearing, or they’re adults, but they’re all in the same graduating class. And in the cold open, I think, ends with the local sheriff saying, “Is it the class of 89? Is it happening again?” And I got chills just right away. Such a great setup.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And Mulder and Scully weren’t in it yet, I don’t think. They were just — this was just showing us the small town.
Chelsea Stardust:
What’s so great about the pilot is it really is one of the best pilots, I think, ever. I know it’s taught in screenwriting courses about television because it’s laying out — there’s so much in this pilot. And this is, you know, without commercials, each X-Files episode is, I believe, 42 to 45, 46 minutes. And so this is really laying out so much information to the audience. It is giving you your first dose of, you know, is it or isn’t it extraterrestrial lore, while also introducing you to these characters, kind of planting the seeds.
This pilot plants seeds for things that are going to happen in future episodes, in future seasons. And it’s the first time we get a glimpse of the Cigarette Smoking Man, who becomes a very prevalent character. So this is really setting you up for so much. I rewatched this recently since I was coming on. I rewatched all the episodes. And I was kind of blown away. I think the pilot — a lot of people talk about it, but it doesn’t get enough credit with how much information they pack in and giving you their dynamics. Mulder and Scully, who eventually have a romantic relationship and have a child.
Mandy Kaplan:
That was a question coming up.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
What? They have a child?
Chelsea Stardust:
Spoiler alert, yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, okay. I always heard it was a will-they-won’t-they thing. I didn’t realize it was a “oh, they will.”
Chelsea Stardust:
It’s really just setting you up for this. And of course, she’s hard science where he wants to believe. He just wants to really acknowledge the idea that this is out there and “I’m gonna do everything I can to prove it.” They plant the seeds of his sister, Samantha, who was abducted — or she disappeared. He’s trying to solve that mystery that goes throughout the whole series.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Stardust:
He talks about that. So just that one scene talks about all of it. When I rewatched it, I too took copious notes about it and I could not believe how much they packed in it. So it’s so good. Obviously, I know you’re always watching the pilots for shows you’re talking about because you hope that they lay the groundwork. And I think this show does it so well.
Mandy Kaplan:
I think it does it seamlessly. I never felt like, “I get it, I understand, you’re the tough boss guy.” You are just dropped into this world and the way they welcome you in — I never felt exposition or obvious introduction of concept or character. It was like we were just dropped in and welcomed in. And the two actors are just so damn charming that you root for them even when he’s a little smarmy or — not smarmy, but he’s got some issues.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah, he’s got some sass.
Mandy Kaplan:
He says some inappropriate things and you don’t care. You just love him. You love both of them.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I was completely taken in. The pilot does work on a structural level, character level. It was intriguing, and I love the tone. They’re seeing horrifying things and evidence of violence or heartbreak, and then the dialogue is really zippy and punchy and fun. And that’s my speed. It doesn’t lean — I can’t do Law and Order SVU. It’s too heavy. And this is like, you’re seeing similar crime scenes, but they’re joking.
Chelsea Stardust:
There’s levity to it.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.
Chelsea Stardust:
And not everyone can watch things in the sci-fi horror genre. In order to really appeal to a mass audience, having that levity — I mean, you have to have great lead characters, and Gillian Anderson and David Duchovny — obviously, this is what everyone knows them for. They’re just so iconic. Even to this day, you see X-Files merchants — “Mulder, it’s me” is a very common thing you’ll see, because that’s what she always says when she calls him.
Mandy Kaplan:
Uh-huh.
Chelsea Stardust:
This show is just so special to me. Getting to talk about it was very exciting to me. One of the reasons I picked it — I haven’t talked about it on any platform ever. And it inspired me to be a director. There’s so many things about this show. It was such a delight to go back and just revisit a couple of these episodes that now I want to watch the whole series again.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
Big undertaking.
Mandy Kaplan:
But that’s what it should be. When we love something, it should feel like that. And I felt a little emotion in your voice. And I love that. It goes beyond just, “oh, it was a really great show.” It means something.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And this was a perfect pilot. And I’m hypercritical, and I come to this with my sensibility and looking for discussion points. Sometimes that means I criticize things just so I can simply play devil’s advocate and challenge my nerds on, like, “well, that’s not very realistic and that bothers me,” just to get conversation going. But there’s not a negative to this pilot. I mean, the rest of the episodes are pure garbage. But I’m just kidding. I’m kidding, all you X-Files lovers. I’m kidding. Yeah, so I loved it. I loved the score. There was a real jazzy piano score.
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
It reminded me of Dave Grusin’s The Firm. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that film. But I didn’t expect that score on a TV detective show about aliens. It’s elevated.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah. Mark Snow is really doing the work and created the theme song, which obviously you didn’t see in the pilot because they didn’t have that yet, the credits. It’s throughout the whole show. That is one of the most iconic theme songs too — that people still to this day, you hear it, you immediately know what it is, which I love.
Mandy Kaplan:
Fun fact: so the theme song was created — Mark Snow created the echo effect on his famous theme by accident. Do you know this?
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh yes, I do.
Mandy Kaplan:
My friend Google. He had gone through several revisions, but Chris Carter felt that something wasn’t quite right. Carter walked out of the room, and Snow put his hand and forearm on his keyboard in frustration. Snow said that this sound was in the keyboard and that was it. So it reminds me of, on Sesame Street, the guy who couldn’t finish “Mary Had a Little Lamb” and he would bang his head on the piano. I have very topical, sexy references, Chelsea. You’ll learn this about me.
Chelsea Stardust:
I love it.
Mandy Kaplan:
The theme song is just next level. That’s why I looked it up because it’s so memorable, so perfect, simple, not too much. And did it change at all in the ten years of the series?
Chelsea Stardust:
No.
Mandy Kaplan:
Good.
Chelsea Stardust:
It changed when — and again, for anyone who’s never seen an episode of the X-Files, I’m so sorry that I’ve really spoiled some big things. But, you know, if you really think about it, you’re like, “okay, those make sense.” The only time it did change was — depending on how much you read about the series — because of some legal things, Mulder, or David Duchovny, started to take a step back in the later seasons.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Stardust:
I think it’s halfway through season eight. It had to do with contract disputes and a lawsuit with Fox over residuals, and also he wanted to do other projects. So he takes a step back, and then he’s fully out of it, I think, by season nine. So basically, two other detectives come in with Dana Scully, with Gillian Anderson — Robert Patrick and Annabeth Gish — and they finish.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, I like both those actors.
Chelsea Stardust:
They’re great. But once he was gone — he pops up here and there — but once he was gone, it took a big hit. The credits did change to accommodate the new cast. It really was not the same. I did watch the show all the way through, and then of course it came up again in 2016. They did a couple more seasons. They brought it back. And I kept watching it because I loved it so much, but it’s not the same show, unfortunately.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
That’s the only time the credits, to my knowledge, changed. But I will say “the truth is out there” — that you see in the credits — I realized all the episodes I picked, they all say “the truth is out there,” but there are a couple episodes that that changes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh.
Chelsea Stardust:
I realized — oh shoot, all the ones I picked, that stays the same, which is fine. But should you go down the path to watch more, there are a couple choice episodes where what that tagline is is different.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, interesting.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah, which is very fun.
Mandy Kaplan:
It would probably give me chills, because you expect it. Very cool. Well, you chose Squeeze, season one, episode three. Mulder and Scully search for a humanoid killer whose savage murder spree reoccurs every thirty years. This one features, at the time, not a creep, Doug Hutchison.
Chelsea Stardust:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
And he was on The Green Mile. He worked a lot.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
He’s, I assume, a great character actor. But I know him because he married an 18-year-old or a 16-year-old, right? Her name was Courtney.
Chelsea Stardust:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
And he was all over Entertainment Tonight for years because it was so inappropriate, bordering on illegal, scandalous. It was so odd. They have since divorced. But immediately I saw him, and then here he is young, way before that. And I was like, “oh, that’s the creep that married the kid.” So they’re getting extra creep points on that casting.
Chelsea Stardust:
Extra. I want to also talk about real quick why I picked these episodes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Please.
Chelsea Stardust:
When I wanted to think about what I wanted to choose and getting to talk about the X-Files — I actually probably didn’t start watching live until the seventh season because I was pretty young when this came on.
Mandy Kaplan:
Really.
Chelsea Stardust:
This one is ’93, I was in third grade, so I definitely wouldn’t have been allowed to watch this. But one of my best friends from kindergarten to this day, Christina, she was a big X-Files fan, and so she kind of got me on board watching. I think it was on Fox on Sunday nights, I’m pretty sure at like 10 o’clock. So when I was old enough — I think it was like maybe eighth grade — my parents were like, “yeah, of course, you can watch the X-Files, it’s fine.” And I fell in love.
So what I would do is we’d watch it, and then the next day at school, Christina and I would get together and talk about the X-Files and what we just watched. I just fell in love with the show so hard. Like I said, I’m a big horror girly and sci-fi and thriller — all the genre stuff. But this has such great, masterful writing, great directing. And of course, it’s about the other, which is something I very much identify with and connect with. And to have these two iconic protagonists — I use this thinking about my own work of wanting to make sure you have these great, also flawed, lead characters.
So all that to say, when I was thinking about what I wanted to show you as your way into the X-Files — I apologize to all the X-Files fans out there. This is a short list. We couldn’t do all the bangers because there are so many.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right, of course, ten seasons.
Chelsea Stardust:
There’s so many. Plus two movies. A lot of the ones I picked sort of are the iconic monster of the week, or, you know, featuring writing by Vince Gilligan, who obviously went on to do Breaking Bad.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.
Chelsea Stardust:
A couple iconic ones, and then one that I think is kind of sweet, and then one that my husband has a connection with one of the actors too — that is also a very poignant story. I understand I didn’t pick a lot of alien-forward ones because a lot of those are part of the bigger mythology.
Mandy Kaplan:
Sure, that’s okay. I was able to drop in and immediately —
Chelsea Stardust:
You could drop into all these episodes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Monster of the week, yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
That’s sort of what I wanted to think of — the iconic ones that your listeners would know and immediately recognize, and that are accessible to people too. And some of them are very scary. They’re creepy.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, thank you for putting all of that work and thought into it. I do appreciate it because I think you curated a wonderful sampling. This one is creepy as hell. They actually use a device in the beginning or towards the beginning of the episode where she’s doing voiceover as she’s typing up her notes. And it was very Carrie Bradshaw. And I thought, well, this is the ’90s. I’m sure they thought, “oh, let’s get in on that.” It just seemed very of the time.
And then one thought I had, which is so shallow — when they’re in an active situation, she’s in fucking heels. And like a pencil skirt most of the time. And it’s such a disadvantage that women have in all walks of life. But as detectives, why is she not — does she ever, in the later seasons, get a sensible pair of slacks and running shoes?
Chelsea Stardust:
Slacks, yes. I don’t know. The FBI — when you think about, like, when Clarice goes to visit Hannibal Lecter — the FBI, what are they doing?
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Same thing. What are they doing?
Chelsea Stardust:
Make us comfortable.
Mandy Kaplan:
And you must have that bob, apparently.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes, you have to have the haircut. Absolutely. I also love that this episode — basically, it’s three years after the last one. Obviously, when you gave the synopsis, they talk about every 30 years, which is similar to Pennywise.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.
Chelsea Stardust:
Tooms has the nest because he’s gonna hibernate. I’m getting ahead of the synopsis, I shouldn’t get too ahead of it.
Mandy Kaplan:
No, we’re all over the place. Everyone’s seen it.
Chelsea Stardust:
He’s gonna hibernate, and I was like, this is so Pennywise.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
I hadn’t seen — I don’t know if I’d seen It when I saw this — I never made the connection until now. I thought, “oh man.” And also this episode is Glen Morgan and James Wong, who went on to do Final Destination. They went on to do the Final Destination movies. They went on to do Black Christmas, which a lot of cast from X-Files is in. Great writers. They write throughout the series. And great at creating these really disturbing characters. But I love the correlation with It, which I had never thought about before. And they even refer to it as “it.” I think Glen and James must have read It when they did this episode.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, I have not, so I didn’t make the correlation. But they are not afraid to wink at — in a future episode, they actually say, like, “I’ve seen this movie before” in one of the episodes. They’re not afraid to say, “we get it, people, we’re borrowing here, and we’re proud of it,” which I like. It’s part of their tone.
When he’s possessed, Tooms, Doug Hutchison, squishes into an air duct, and the sound effects are like his bones crunching. So well done.
Chelsea Stardust:
So good.
Mandy Kaplan:
And then that was a part of the show — it occurred to me how much time they will let a moment take. They will let you sit on the edge of your seat and feel nervous and scared and tense for a long time. And I feel like today’s TV, they would be like, “hit him with the action right away.”
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah, absolutely.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s really great storytelling. I prefer the “oh God, oh God, I can’t take it anymore. What’s gonna happen?” And it goes on and on. And that lasted throughout all the episodes you picked for me. I had that feeling.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Aside from their haircuts — she has a French twist — and I’m just gonna say it this one time and then I’m gonna drop it: the lack of diversity, because that does bump for me. The show doesn’t feel dated. It feels like it could have been made — I mean, I know that the quality of film is a little different than it is now. But it doesn’t feel dated. And then we saw her bathroom and I was like, “oh, hold up.”
Chelsea Stardust:
There it is.
Mandy Kaplan:
There it is. Her bathroom feels like it’s an ’80s condo in Florida somehow. Do you remember it?
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
The pink tile and the —
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh yes. It’s rough.
Mandy Kaplan:
But it just holds up really well. I’m so impressed that it’s timeless. And I wonder, are people getting into it now, like kids, teens? At the same age you were, eighth grade, finally, like, “I’m old enough to watch X-Files.” Is there a new generation of fans?
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes, and also because — when I was watching this, you would have to seek out the DVDs. Obviously, there wasn’t streaming if you weren’t watching it live. And now it’s on Hulu, but you can get it on Pluto TV, so it’s accessible because that’s free. The younger generation, they watch a lot of Tubi. Again, free. So now that it is very accessible, a lot more people are discovering it.
It also is connecting to — we have Disclosure Day coming up, that movie. So I think people are talking about it because of that.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.
Chelsea Stardust:
That’s the Spielberg.
Mandy Kaplan:
That’s the Spielberg, okay.
Chelsea Stardust:
And just talking about aliens and other things happening is just evergreen. There’s always something coming up in the news or whatnot that makes you think of that. Or events happening with space. So it’s always on our minds. Or hearing about weird phenomena. So I think that is one of the reasons that it is evergreen. And I too was watching it thinking, “wow, these effects” — some of the effects, not all of them — hold up so well. Especially with the Host episode, it all still looks great.
Mandy Kaplan:
It does. And I was wondering if at the time it was spectacular, but now it would feel hokey. Or if at the time it felt a little cheesy. Because a few of the things I’ve watched, even at the time, I’ve thought, “oh, these special effects.” I remember the ’90s. I would have rolled my eyes at this, but not this. I think it’s that they use them so sparingly. This show is about the mystery, not about the gore or the monster, like getting close-ups of the monsters doing things.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Often you don’t really even see the monsters, or you only see them very quickly. They did some effects with just still shots of like a body decomposing. Because they’re only using special effects sparingly, they look great and they fly. But if it were wall-to-wall special effects that looked like that, I think I would have gone, “ugh, come on.”
Chelsea Stardust:
And it’s so much about the relationships. That is the core, as opposed to the monsters being the theme. It’s about the relationships. And how their relationship is affected, their relationship with the FBI is affected through each episode with all the other people involved in their lives. This is just a small piece of that with each episode too.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Well, I am ready to move on to the next episode, unless I’m missing something major.
Chelsea Stardust:
We’re touching on — people reference the Tooms episode. I thought it was a good one to start getting you into the monster of the week, because it is human, but even Scully talks about these aspects of him that seem like an elevated human, I guess I would say. So I wanted to ease you into it with that episode, because then we get into Flukeman.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, before we get into the next episode, I do want to let everybody know that Make Me a Nerd is a production of TruStory FM. Engineering by — in my humble opinion — an elevated human, Pete Wright. My theme song is Wonderstruck by Jane and the Boy. You can get me on Instagram at Mandy_Kaplan_Klavens, both with K’s, or on TikTok at Mandy Miscast. Please leave a review on Apple Podcasts if that’s where you’re listening. Five stars. Write me something, make a suggestion for something you want me to cover next. I am grateful for all of the community and reach out, and it does help other people find the podcast. And lastly, if you’re feeling really supportive, I would be so grateful if you would go to makemeanerd.com/join. Hitting that button will get your episodes ad-free and early. And my eternal gratitude. All right, let’s take a break and we’ll come back with the next episode.
The Host, season two, episode two. Mulder pursues a humanoid parasitic organism that uses the sewage system as its home. Why this one?
Chelsea Stardust:
This is one of the most iconic episodes in terms of monster of the week, if not the most iconic, with the Flukeman, as he became known. Incredible special effects. I also picked two back-to-back that have to do with the sewer system, I realized when I rewatched. I was like, “oh yeah, we in the sewer.”
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Chelsea Stardust:
We hanging in the sewer. And the idea of this — based on the lore of the crocodile in the sewer. They even reference that within the episode, which is kind of where this germinated from.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Stardust:
It’s beloved. I remember seeing this for the first time and it scared the shit out of me. Because that Flukeman makeup is like none other.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. A lot of this, before they figure out what’s really happening — people are getting infected, and it makes me want a tapeworm. I always want a tapeworm. If anybody’s selling them, please reach out on Apple Podcasts and get me a tapeworm.
Chelsea Stardust:
Uh-huh.
Mandy Kaplan:
That’s what it starts off as feeling like. And now, I know Scully went to med school. Is she a doctor? Or did she just go to med school and not finish? I think she’s a doctor, right?
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. But she’s a doctor who not only does autopsies but knows everything. This is a bit of an eye roll to me. As long as it has to do with the human body, she’s like, “I know all about this. Let me explain it.” And even the best doctors would have to say, “let me look it up, let me call a colleague and figure this out,” right? Not Scully.
Chelsea Stardust:
No.
Mandy Kaplan:
She knows it all.
Chelsea Stardust:
She knows it all. She’s a genius.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Games that match, Kaplan, on that one. And then this episode also features strange marks on people’s backs. Two out of the three episodes I had watched up to this point had strange marks on people’s backs. Is that a little fetish for you, Chelsea? Should we sidebar on that?
Chelsea Stardust:
If it’s the Flukeman —
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, the Flukeman is the monster, and I got Shape of Water vibes.
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Because you feel bad. He can’t help who he is and what his nature is. And I was rooting for him in a weird way.
Chelsea Stardust:
And they reveal that he was made — they connect it like he’s part human. There was radiation mentioned, that he was created because of all of these elements that had happened. And yeah, he’s just trying to live his life. That’s it. But they’re trying to figure out, “no, no, we gotta — we need to hide that this was created” because of course they connect it to the Russian tanker ship from the beginning. They finally put all the pieces together.
Also, two episodes back-to-back that have to do with the liver — needing the liver. The Flukeman, they talk about him, the liver regenerating. I realized, “wow, I clearly had a theme through some of these episodes.” But in terms of — I wanted to pick an iconic monster for you, and it is him. But when we revisit things, maybe the monster is, like you said, the one that maybe we should be a little more sympathetic towards.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. It definitely gave me those vibes. He was like Sloth from The Goonies, which I did an episode on with Chrissy Lentz, if anybody wants to go listen to it.
In this episode, it was not my favorite because Scully was behind a desk. And then I thought, “is she pregnant?” And I think I was on to something, right? So Gillian Anderson, pregnant, they saw that. Rather than having Agent Scully with a bag of groceries — like so many shows do — they just stick her at the desk calling Mulder all the time. And it’s a bummer.
Chelsea Stardust:
I was trying to remember which episodes or which seasons. I was thinking it was either this one. It must have been this one when I was rewatching. And I thought, “oh, is this when she was pregnant because of the way she’s shot?” You’re so right.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. That’s a tiny complaint I had, because I love the two of them rolling their eyes at each other out in the field.
Chelsea Stardust:
But you feel it. You feel that absence.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right, having them separated.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I want to ask some BTS. Didn’t they not get along? Am I remembering that correctly?
Chelsea Stardust:
I think that did happen at some point. I’ve sort of forgotten all the T between them, but I want to say that when that all got kind of resolved — I want to say when the new season happened by 2016. Whatever was going on did get resolved later on, but definitely when they came back. Now it’s a whole different conversation when they talk about the X-Files. And I do vaguely remember that. I didn’t do a deep dive into that, but that is ringing familiar to me.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, I don’t know why. I heard, “oh, in real life they don’t like each other. They don’t get along at all.” But maybe that was —
Chelsea Stardust:
Now that’s not the case.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay, good. Because they have such great chemistry, and seemingly they are so equal.
Chelsea Stardust:
It’s so good.
Mandy Kaplan:
Scully is such a badass, and so is Mulder, but he’s even a little more wimpy than she is at times. And I really liked everything about them. And then as I was watching, I thought, “wait a minute, I think they didn’t get along.”
So the end of this episode, it’s all because of Chernobyl.
Chelsea Stardust:
Uh-huh.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I was like, “oh, this shit is high-minded.” That’s fancy. And good for them for weaving in real — I see where you could say “based on a real thing,” although there was no Flukeman as far as we know.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I like historical fiction because I like not knowing what’s real and what’s not. So I guess this could be seen as something like that, to weave in Chernobyl.
Chelsea Stardust:
Totally. It’s great.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Clyde Bruckman’s Final Repose. Season three, episode four. Top-rated on IMDB. You have good taste, Chelsea. A grumpy old man with psychic powers that show him how someone will die assists the agents with the hunt for a crazed killer who targets psychics. He also cryptically reveals to Mulder and Scully their own ultimate fates.
Chelsea Stardust:
Peter Boyle. It’s “Final Repose” — Clyde Bruckman’s Final Repose is the episode title.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oops, thank you.
Chelsea Stardust:
Because if you try to type it in, it auto-corrects you to “response.”
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay, so that is clearly what happened.
Chelsea Stardust:
I noticed that when I was writing it down. I was like, “wait.” I too did the same thing. I thought, “oh shit.”
Mandy Kaplan:
Pete, if you could edit this so it makes it sound like Chelsea embarrassed herself and I corrected her, that would be great. Thanks.
Chelsea Stardust:
No, I literally, when I was writing it out for my notes, I wrote that, and I was like, “oh wait, that’s not right.” Yeah, of course, Peter Boyle.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. So the cold open was —
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
— frickin’ phenomenal. It’s a psychic in her psychic shop with her crystal ball, and the guy’s like, “why do I see myself doing crazy things that I don’t want to do?” And then he brutally murders her with her own crystal ball. But we don’t see it, the murder, which I appreciate. It’s all in the imagination. But again, these cold opens get you, like, “what’s gonna happen?”
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
And they bring in a cheesy psychic to the crime scene.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Whose eyebrows deserve their own Emmy. Yappy — was that his name?
Chelsea Stardust:
Yappy. Stupendous Yappy.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yappy. His eyebrows were incredible. Maybe they were the little worms from the last episode we watched, like furry worms.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Talk to me about Peter Boyle, because this was probably around the time he was doing Everybody Loves Raymond, right? And he had his renaissance, and he’s such a well-respected actor. He was wonderful. In general, I find the acting to be across the board perfect.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Were big-named talent trying to get on X-Files at the time?
Chelsea Stardust:
I think as you go through the whole series, you will see so many people that either were in a lot of TV shows at that time or became more famous later on. Same thing sort of with Star Trek, because Next Gen has a ton of celebrities on that too. So I think people wanted their chance to be on the X-Files. And then you see them in stuff later on, which is so cool to me.
Also — they call him up — the puppet in this — Stu Charno, I need to give a shout-out to, because he’s in Christine, and he’s in Friday the 13th Part 2. And he was also, I think, a writer on Star Trek Next Generation. So he plays the killer in this.
Mandy Kaplan:
The killer. He was great.
Chelsea Stardust:
He’s great. And Peter Boyle — his character, very sweet, even though we’re talking about a dark subject matter. This is where we’re getting into sort of sweeter territory.
Mandy Kaplan:
I thought it was strange casting, honestly. Peter Boyle is known for being gruff and macho. And this guy was really sensitive and had a lot of heart. I was thrown by the casting, but not that I didn’t like it. I was like, “who in the casting room thought, ‘you know who we might want to go after for this?'” It’s an odd choice.
Chelsea Stardust:
That’s a great question. Clearly somebody was a fan, or — that’s a great question. I’d love to know how that came about. I’m sure the internet would tell us. Because, like you said, it’s different than what you’d expect. And he is so sweet in it. And of course, the ending to this one is really heartbreaking. I don’t know if I want to give that away.
Mandy Kaplan:
I think my rule with Make Me a Nerd is, if it’s not a new release, people have had their time to watch X-Files. So it’s okay to talk about the ending of these episodes. If anybody is out there and they haven’t seen it, even knowing the end, they should go watch it.
Chelsea Stardust:
And like I said, even though we’re doing so many monsters of the week, this is about Peter Boyle’s character, Clyde. He has some abilities, but can mainly see people’s deaths and how they’re gonna die. And I love this one and Mondays — talk about fate and destiny and free will. I didn’t realize I was bookending episodes with similar themes when I first picked these, but I love that concept. Is your future written? Is it not written?
Like you were saying, we’re getting sort of into some heady, existential territory with this episode. And that ending of it — it’s a burden to have these abilities. And when he tells Scully, “I see us” —
Mandy Kaplan:
On a bed, yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
“In bed together on a bed, and you’re crying, but it’s tears of compassion.” And it’s because he’s ended his life, and that is how the episode ends. They catch the killer. And she’s a skeptic throughout it, but then she sees these — I love that, late in later seasons, that turns, and she comes from skeptic to starting to be the believer.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, how could she not?
Chelsea Stardust:
How could you not?
Mandy Kaplan:
Right? Every week she is — something is proven to her that is otherworldly.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
Anyway, I just wanted to — I find this episode to be so sweet, and I love it. Even though it’s dark, it’s dark too, don’t get me wrong.
Mandy Kaplan:
Very dark. But there’s also a lot of levity and humor in this one, as with all of them. But this one needed it, because it was not dark in like, “ooh, creepy monster in the sewers.” It was dark like the worst of humanity sometimes. And it pulled on the heartstrings.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
In great ways.
Chelsea Stardust:
It’s a beautiful episode.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay, so you mentioned Mondays. Full disclosure: I didn’t get to that one. Drive was the last one I watched.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah, no, that’s okay. So one of the ones I had mentioned — and I was trying to pick one a season, or I know I skipped a couple seasons — but yeah, Mondays. If you get a chance, that’s sort of the Groundhog’s Day episode where they’re living in a time loop.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, okay.
Chelsea Stardust:
And it also talks about, like I said, fate. My partner’s mentor is the lead woman in that. I highly recommend watching that, because it is another — has a very sad ending to it, but oddly beautiful ending. So if you want a little after-dessert beverage —
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.
Chelsea Stardust:
That would be it.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, I blew it.
Chelsea Stardust:
Okay, continuing.
Mandy Kaplan:
We’re gonna move on to our next episode after this. So this one is Home, season four, episode two. The remains of a murdered, deformed infant lead the agents to a family of murderous, inbred, animal-like brothers living on a secluded farm in a remote section of Pennsylvania. Also top-rated. This one was fucked up, y’all. The Peacock family.
I don’t know if you did it on purpose that it’s the same actress.
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh yeah, yes, it is.
Mandy Kaplan:
The fortune teller is Mrs. Peacock. Oh my god. She’s rangy.
Chelsea Stardust:
She’s incredible.
Mandy Kaplan:
Whew. Oh.
Chelsea Stardust:
Karin Konoval is amazing as an actor. Like, love everything she does.
Mandy Kaplan:
She was great. Here’s something I wrote, and I’m not sure what it means. She says, “no probable cause.” Oh, they don’t have probable cause to go into the house. But then everything is covered in blood.
Chelsea Stardust:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
There’s matching footprints in blood in the yard, in the house. There’s a shovel. I don’t know. That was an eye roll for me.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right? “We don’t have probable cause.” It’s like, well, you’re staring at bloody footprints, and —
Chelsea Stardust:
I clocked the same thing. I literally clocked that same thing. I was like, “that’s odd for her to say.” And then of course they do the flashlight, and there’s a table with scissors and blood all over it.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
I said, okay, that’s a policey thing of someone — your audience saying, “oh, they can’t just go into that house, they need probable cause.” They do that on Law and Order too. And I feel like it’s just to acknowledge that they’re completely going against that. Like, who cares?
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. That was one of my only eye rolls in all the five or six episodes I watched. But it really felt a little too convenient.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
The only violence that really bothered me — because I am very uncomfortable watching realistic violence — these brothers beat the sheriff —
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
— of the town, and his poor wife is under the bed watching him get beaten to death. And I wondered — that felt like such a shift for me. Every episode we had watched, the monster lunges and then it cuts out. So we know that person’s gonna die. This — they embraced the violence. Is that something that I just didn’t happen to see before? Or in later episodes did they get more violent? What are your thoughts?
Chelsea Stardust:
We’re in season four with this one, episode two. The second episodes of all the seasons are always such bangers. But I think they’re also pushing — it’s wild what they show you. You see his face, and then you see the blood pooling towards the wife. They’re not physically showing the hits, but I think they are pushing, because this episode is also written by Glen Morgan and James Wong, who are known for their crazy gore effects in their films that they do.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.
Chelsea Stardust:
So I definitely think they’re trying to push the envelope and see what they can get away with on Fox. Because Fox also becomes the home of the show Hannibal, which is incredibly graphic too.
Mandy Kaplan:
All right.
Chelsea Stardust:
So I think we’re in the territory — this is 1996 — we’re trying to see what we can get away with within the episode. I even thought the little hand coming out of the grave of the infant was also pretty kind of shocking.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
And then they show the infant.
Mandy Kaplan:
The infant with its deformity. Yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
It’s brief, but they show it. I don’t know if they would have in earlier seasons, but I definitely think they’re always trying to push the envelope here and there. They can’t do it probably with every episode, but Home is known to be one of the most —
Mandy Kaplan:
Sure.
Chelsea Stardust:
— scariest, craziest episodes of all X-Files. So this is a very known one that people reference all the time of, like, what is the most disturbing, effed up one.
Mandy Kaplan:
Disturbing is a great word. It’s intense. And it’s another moment where Scully looks at this deformed baby, and she knows exactly what’s wrong with it. And I’m like, “really? You’re also a neonatal expert? Come on, Scully.”
But these brothers have their mom, Mrs. Peacock, who has no arms and legs, and they keep her under the house —
Chelsea Stardust:
Under the bed.
Mandy Kaplan:
Under the bed. And she doesn’t want to leave.
Chelsea Stardust:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
We see her under there — most of the act-outs, you just see these eyes under the floorboards, and it’s like, “what’s happening under there? Who is that? What’s going on?” And then we finally see her. And we as an audience are so happy when the agents are in the house saying, “Mrs. Peacock, we’re here. We’re here to save you. We’ll make you safe.” And they roll her out, and she’s so disturbing.
What’s her name? Karin Konoval?
Chelsea Stardust:
Konoval. K-O-N-O-V-A-L. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Karin Konoval. She is — chills and repulsion, and yet you feel for her, and you’re upset for her, and you care about her. This one felt like a movie. It just was so complete. The story was atmospheric and really stuck with me. Well, well chosen, you. And it leans a lot more horror than the others.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes. This one definitely is one of the most horror-centered ones. The family — and it is a family that is generationally — a generational family of incest and trauma. And, “we keep things to ourselves and we like the way things are.” It’s really — there’s so much in it that is so disturbing.
It’s revealed that the mother survived the car accident, which is why she is missing these limbs. But she is determined to make — it ends on a very dark note of the brother taking her away in that Cadillac with the Johnny Mathis song playing and, “oh, we’re gonna find — our family’s gonna grow.” You’re like, “oh my God, what are these people gonna do?”
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, I didn’t get the very end. We’re seeing the car —
Chelsea Stardust:
So yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
So Scully and Mulder kill the two brothers. So third brother and mom get away. And we see the car, and we hear the dialogue that they’re having, that, “we’re gonna get away, we’re gonna start again,” or whatever.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
But then he climbs out of the trunk and goes and drives the car away, implying that he was — what, cuddled up in the trunk with her?
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes, to talk to her with the lid closed. Can’t let anyone see Mama. And gets out and decides to — they’re hinting towards they’re gonna kidnap someone or whatever to keep the lineage going. Because clearly Mama can’t keep having these kids.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, the whole thing starts with her having the baby that’s stillborn, or do they bury it alive?
Chelsea Stardust:
Alive. It was alive.
Mandy Kaplan:
Why? If they want to keep going, why did they bury it? Too deformed?
Chelsea Stardust:
Well, I think it’s because — Scully had said, “oh, I can’t believe it, wasn’t sure if it survived,” but then she looked and saw that dirt had been inhaled. And she said, “oh, this probably would not have lived very long, but was actually murdered.” That’s sort of why they were going after these brothers too.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Chelsea Stardust:
Very dark. The most horrific in terms of the horror themes of almost all the episodes. There may be one other one I’m not thinking of, but this is the one everyone references.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. Well, you’re not asking, but it was my favorite of the ones I watched.
Chelsea Stardust:
Love that.
Mandy Kaplan:
Because it was so out there. The truth is out there, and this one is out there.
Chelsea Stardust:
So out there. And the idea — they’re playing that wonderful Johnny Mathis song. And they’re in this old, like, ’50s, ’60s Cadillac. “We want to keep things as they were.”
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
“Keep it as our family.” The house, they talk about, was never upgraded. “Want to keep things the way they are because that’s what we like.” And heaven forbid we change. It’s very disturbing.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh yeah. Well, and I’m glad that you had some ambiguity about the ending too, because —
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay, that makes me feel better. Like, a little bit less of a dum-dum.
We are up to our last episode that I watched, which is Drive, season six, episode two. A man tormented by a piercing sound that could make his head explode unless he heads west as fast as possible takes Mulder hostage to drive for him, while Scully rushes to find the cause of this affliction that also killed the man’s wife — which is how the episode starts.
It’s a high-speed chase, just like we in Los Angeles unfortunately see on TV all the time. They put the spikes down, the car spins out, the husband gets out — the husband, an unknown actor, never did anything after this, Bryan Cranston. He’s trying to communicate to the cops that he didn’t kidnap her, that she’s his wife. They put her in the car and they’re like, “you’re safe now. You’re in the police car. You’re safe. We’re rescuing you.” And her head explodes in the backseat.
They don’t fuck around, Chelsea. This is high concept, but you’re in it from the start.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I’m mad I read the log line, because that cold open ended with a bang, which is a terrible pun.
Chelsea Stardust:
Literally.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yep. And then as the plot develops and they realize they have to drive fast to prevent the head from exploding, that’s where they acknowledge, “oh, I think I’ve seen this movie.” And I was so grateful for it, because it really is the plot of Speed.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Written by Vince Gilligan and starring Bryan Cranston. Do we know if this is where they met, where the magic started?
Chelsea Stardust:
I believe this is the start. I’m trying to think when Malcolm in the Middle was happening, if this was before that. Yes, I think it was. This is ’98.
Mandy Kaplan:
I would think he was probably on Malcolm in the Middle when he did this.
Chelsea Stardust:
I have to see.
Mandy Kaplan:
That’s my guess, but I’m gonna have my research department figure this out.
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh no, I’m wrong. Malcolm in the Middle started in 2000. It aired in 2000. So no one would have seen Malcolm in the Middle yet. So yeah, this I do think is where the first bond between the two of them came. When you think about, this is ’98, and then when did Breaking Bad happen? Like, this long stretch.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Chelsea Stardust:
Vince Gilligan also wrote Mondays, the other one I referenced, which again, the ending of — I don’t want to get to the ending quite yet. But that beginning — let’s talk about the cold open since you brought that up.
Mandy Kaplan:
Catch it.
Chelsea Stardust:
I had forgotten the cold open of this one, because it’s been a very long time since I’d seen this particular episode, but I remembered loving it. And I gasped when you see the window, when she’s banging her head against it, the wife, and then the blood. And then I remembered, “oh yeah, this is like Scanners.” The Cronenberg movie. But that moment, I just yelled out loud, because I had forgotten. And then of course I started to remember all the pieces when I was watching it. And he’s like screaming for her. They pull him out of the car and he’s screaming for her. Oh my God. It’s so sad. This whole episode is quite sad, to be honest.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, it’s sad, but then Cranston — Crump is his name. Crump.
Chelsea Stardust:
Crump, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
He’s an asshole.
Chelsea Stardust:
He’s an asshole.
Mandy Kaplan:
He would be MAGA these days. He’s like — Mulder, “you’re Jewish, aren’t you?”
Chelsea Stardust:
It is so weird.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s so weird, because you want to just sympathize with this poor man who tried to save his wife and couldn’t, and we know he’s gonna die.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
You want to sympathize, but they don’t go that way. They make it really complex.
Chelsea Stardust:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
And Mulder feels torn. “Do I want to drive and save this guy? This guy’s pretty awful.”
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
So I think that’s a braver, bolder, more interesting choice.
Chelsea Stardust:
Totally. And then they go to his house, where he and his wife lived, and the dog. And at this point, you know — whatever is happening, they have to keep moving. And so when they stop, you know what’s gonna happen with the dog. So I have to warn everybody, there is dog trauma in this one.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm.
Chelsea Stardust:
And I guess this one goes into government conspiracy territory.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Stardust:
He ends up kidnapping Mulder because he just happens to be following him. He goes to a hospital and kidnaps him — carjacks him to make him drive for him. And we start to learn all these things about him. I totally agree, they make him a very difficult character to get on board with.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Stardust:
But Mulder, how he is at the very end of the episode — what he has just seen — he’s very affected by it.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.
Chelsea Stardust:
That last scene where he’s standing and just looking out over the water because they just didn’t make it in time —
Mandy Kaplan:
Over the water. Yep. They just don’t shy away. And I really like that. I admire that. In this episode, the premise that he has a deafening sound in his head, and it gets better when the car goes fast west — they could have exposed us to that sound. And I think lesser filmmakers might have.
Chelsea Stardust:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
Like, “it’ll really freak the audience out if they could hear the screeching the whole time.” And we never heard the sound. And I was so grateful for that.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And implying it let us imagine what was going on in his head. And you have a fine actor like Bryan Cranston.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
So I’m wondering if the network just had to be hands-off at this point, because X-Files was what it was, and it was doing well and making them money. Because I feel like network execs would jump in and go, “well, we never hear the sound. We gotta hear the sound. You can’t kill them at the end.”
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Sorry, network execs. But you all sound like that to me. They strip things of their imagination or their edginess or brave storytelling, and they want to dumb it down for middle America. But at this time, middle America had X-Files, according to Jim. So they could watch that, and intelligent people could watch X-Files.
And then, just on a personal note, I have a weird soft spot — before Roseanne went batshit crazy.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
I love the old Roseanne show very, very deeply. It was a big part of my childhood and influential on me as a writer. I love that show. Dan Conner’s best friend was named Chuck, and he plays the boss on X-Files. And I saw him — and so now it’s years later that he was on X-Files, but I was like —
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh, yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
“That’s Chuck. That’s Dan Conner’s best friend.” And I was so happy that this guy’s working and doing something very different from playing poker and drinking beer with Dan Conner around the kitchen table. So good on you, Chuck. I didn’t even write down your name, because that’s how much of a fan I am. But yes.
Chelsea Stardust:
Go Chuck.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh my god, we did it.
Chelsea Stardust:
We did it. I just love this show. Obviously, it has a huge fan base. Being able to revisit these episodes — of course, made me so nostalgic, but it was also nice to see it all still holding up. And it’s a comfort show. You want to put it on when you’re sick or when you’re trying to go to sleep, and you need Mulder and Scully to come in and read you a bedtime story.
Mandy Kaplan:
But you need to pay attention to it. So it’s not a great folding-laundry show.
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh no, if you’ve never seen it, you gotta pay attention.
Mandy Kaplan:
You have to. Yeah. I had to sit and focus on this and only this.
Chelsea Stardust:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Chelsea, tell everyone where they can find your movies and your podcast. Plug away, my new friend.
Chelsea Stardust:
Oh my god, there’s so many things. For the socials, I’m only on Instagram at Chelsea Stardust. I’m very active on there. I post all the movies I’m watching. I do not do Letterboxd. I’m too tempted to see what people will say about my work, so I choose not to be on that platform. But you can find me there.
And TruStory FM — you can find Sitting in the Dark, which I love being a part of that podcast.
Mandy Kaplan:
That’s a horror podcast.
Chelsea Stardust:
I’m a co-host on that. Yes, watching horror movies, talking about horror movies. We talk about three movies per episode. It all has a theme. It’s wonderful. Highly recommend.
My movies — my first movie, All That We Destroy, you can find on Hulu. My second movie, Satanic Panic, is on VOD wherever you rent movies. And my latest feature, Grind, that I produced and co-directed, which just premiered at South by Southwest, is doing a huge festival run. Maybe it’ll play in your city. Hopefully we’ll get some distribution after we do this festival run. It is a horror anthology about the gig economy.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh.
Chelsea Stardust:
Very timely. And I also have a book club called the Losers Book Club, where we read horror books. We’re on Instagram as well, Losers Book Club LA. That’s all the things. And I loved being asked to be on this podcast. Thank you so much. Honored to be asked. And I love talking about the X-Files. So thank you for giving me this opportunity, because I have not had the chance.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. I mean, who wants to sit for over an hour and really nerd out about something like this? Like, that’s the joy of this. So thank you for saying yes. Thank you for being passionate and nerdy and brilliant. Until next time, thank you all for listening.
Chelsea Stardust:
Thank you.
