Mandy Kaplan:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Make Me a Nerd. Zoinks! I’m Mandy Kaplan, a mainstream mom whose mission it is to explore the world of nerd culture that I’ve been missing out on and afraid of my whole life. But I frickin’ loved Scooby-Doo when I was a kid. Loved, loved, loved. So I didn’t miss out on it, but I haven’t seen it in forty-plus years. And I love, love, love my very special guest today. She is an actress, vocal coach, and an extraordinary singer herself. It’s Journie Ma-Johnson.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Hi. Thank you so much for having me, Mandy.

Mandy Kaplan:
I’m so excited, and I want this to come across as genuinely and positively as I mean it from my heart. I met you and I knew you were a nerd right away.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I was wondering why you asked me on. I’m like, did I say anything nerdy in our last conversation? But I guess you just have nerd radar.

Mandy Kaplan:
I definitely have nerd radar. You were wearing that Dracula shirt. Oh, did I send you that picture from my basement?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
No.

Mandy Kaplan:
In my house?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
You told me.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. I took a picture to send you and then I forgot. But yeah, I just picked up on nerd vibes. I can’t remember what I overheard you saying, and I thought, uh-huh. So what kind of nerd are you?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Oh, that is such a good question. What’s the word? I’m kind of an all-rounder nerd. I do the classic nerd stuff. I play Dungeons and Dragons every week.

Mandy Kaplan:
Same character, or do you switch it up?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I’m in a campaign right now where I’m playing the same character. And then a couple weeks from now, my friend wants to actually film a campaign for us. So I think we’re gonna try to start yet another D&D show. But I’ll be playing a different character for that one.

Mandy Kaplan:
What is the character you’re in now in your campaign, out of curiosity?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
The character I have right now, their name is Kumi. We’re doing this campaign where we all are latent gods, and I based my character off of the god Anansi, the African storyteller god, who’s a trickster. And so my character is a rogue who was in the circus, and they left the circus under mysterious circumstances, and they maybe owe the circus a lot of money.

Mandy Kaplan:
This is in depth.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, it’s been really, really fun. And my friend who hosts, he has a whole separate room in his house that he’s dedicated to D&D. And so we have this fancy table that’s really just a TV set on its side, but we can put anything onto the television so we can move our characters around on it. He has all of these fancy lights that change color, and there’s a fog machine in there.

Mandy Kaplan:
No, shut up.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Hardcore. It’s very, very hardcore, and we sometimes dress up for our sessions and stuff. So very nerdy. I have not tried LARPing. That, to me, is the final nerd frontier.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Dress up in costumes and go outside in a public place and be like, “Fireball!” and hit each other with foam swords.

Mandy Kaplan:
My only knowledge of LARPing firsthand is that movie Role Models. Did you ever see that?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
And I thought, I mean, Ken Jeong is the king who seems to actually believe he’s a king. It was so funny. But I also think it is similar in tone to what I’m doing. They were making fun of something, but then falling in love with it.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Exactly.

Mandy Kaplan:
Lovingly representing this world of LARPing.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I mean, it is silly. I think everybody who LARPs knows that it’s silly, but it’s the kind of thing where when you take it seriously, you really get something out of it, I think. I have a friend who’s been trying to convince me to go LARP with her for two years now. And she does it hardcore.

Mandy Kaplan:
Do it.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Going camping and stuff. And I’m like, I think I could LARP, but I don’t think I could camp. I don’t like to be in the dirt.

Mandy Kaplan:
Me too. I don’t believe in nature. But if you have a chance to LARP, I need you to do it, and I need you to tell me about it. I’m just fascinated.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, I am too. I’m intrigued. Other nerdy stuff. I love video games. I used to be a competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee player. That’s the one that came out in 2001, I think, that you still have to play on a CRT television.

Mandy Kaplan:
What the hell is that?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
It’s that television that makes a high-pitched whine. Those old televisions that make a really, really high-pitched whine, and they have a cathode ray tube inside. That’s what CRT stands for.

Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
But they have really, really low latency. So you can… now I’m really getting super nerdy about it. But that’s why you have to play Melee on a CRT.

Mandy Kaplan:
That’s what I was gonna say.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah. And then I’ve also done cosplay.

Mandy Kaplan:
Wait, what’s the difference between cosplay and LARPing?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
LARPing is where you typically play an original character and you actually roleplay, whereas cosplay is you just dress up. Cosplay is just, I’m gonna dress up as a character from an IP, typically.

Mandy Kaplan:
But what have you chosen?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I did the Soup Faerie from Neopets for the Ren Faire, another nerdy thing, a couple years back.

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, Journie, I hit pay dirt with you.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
There is no end to this. What else have I done? I made this crazy light-up wig for Ember from Danny Phantom. She has flaming hair, so I made this wig that lights up.

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh my gosh.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
But you don’t actually play a character. A LARP is a game, so it’s rules and stuff, whereas cosplay is you kind of dress up and take pictures and go to a convention and maybe enter a competition or something. I’ve never done a cosplay competition, but people do.

Mandy Kaplan:
All right. I am very, very impressed and excited by all the things you’re saying. And then when I said pick one nerdy thing, I was a little surprised, because Scooby-Doo, not so nerdy. But I feel like maybe your love for Scooby-Doo is nerdy.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yes, I’m very into Scooby-Doo. It was very formative media for me. Like you said, you really liked it when you were a kid. And Scooby-Doo has been on since 1969. So it’s kind of cool that there’s multiple generations of people who grew up with Scooby-Doo.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
And I’ve always loved spooky things. I really loved the Goosebumps books and Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark. That kind of shaped who I am today as someone who’s very into Halloween and haunted houses and horror movies and stuff like that. But it starts with this horror for kids, which is your classic ghouls and ghosts that you see in Scooby-Doo.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right. And I remember as a kid watching it, and it didn’t scare me. It wasn’t all that spooky to me when I was five and six or whatever. But you chose specifically the movie Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island, and the opening, I thought, oh, this would scare the bejeebers out of kids. It hard leans into it.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yes. It’s the first Scooby-Doo thing that actually scared me when I was a kid, which I think is why it stuck in my mind so much, and also in the minds of the people who grew up with it. Because it really leans into the horror stuff, and it’s very gothic. I love the atmosphere of it. And it’s the movie that put the Scooby-Doo franchise back on its feet.

Mandy Kaplan:
Okay, so this was from when?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
1998.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. And it looked very similar to what I watched in the seventies and eighties. It was classic 2D animation. It wasn’t fancy CGI, and the music felt reminiscent. It really felt like a throwback. Were there other iterations of Scooby-Doo where they did modernize and go through CGI?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
CGI, there’s been some movies, I think. I think there was one, I think it’s called Scoob! Like Scoob, exclamation point. And I think that one is CGI animated. But as far as stuff that’s been on TV, it’s all been 2D animated. The Scooby-Doo that I grew up with is What’s New, Scooby-Doo?, which came out in 2001 or 2002, I believe. And that one is modern in that it takes place in the modern era. It doesn’t take place in the sixties or seventies.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
So they have cell phones and computers and the internet and stuff like that.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, it was weird to see Velma on a computer. I know Velma was the brains behind the operation, but I wanted to ask you, back in the seventies, how did she figure stuff out? Was she going to the library?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I think she went to the library. She read a lot of books. I think she was a character who just knew stuff. She was just brainy, so she would just know things. But I don’t think you ever see a ton of footage of Velma researching things. I think it’s mostly they go to a haunted castle or whatever, and then Velma says a bunch of exposition that she presumably looked up earlier.

Mandy Kaplan:
Looked up earlier, or I’m remembering things like, “I found this old book, and it says here…” That was more what it was.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
She’s the only one who knows how to read, maybe.

Mandy Kaplan:
Well, I have to tell you, I pressed play, and when I heard the theme song, I got a rush of the warm fuzzies from head to toe. Because I literally have not visited Scooby-Doo since I was maybe nine years old or something. And it just felt so beautifully nostalgic. I felt like I was, if you can picture it, let’s all go back in the Wayback Machine to 1979 or something. My parents would sleep in on Saturdays, and I would watch Saturday morning cartoons by taking the little TV from the kitchen and moving it into the living room. And I would lay there in my pajamas and eat my cereal and watch Scooby-Doo. I have such fond memories of this.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
It’s so funny that we have the exact same Saturday morning cartoon memories, but just different time periods. Because I also grew up watching… for me it was A Pup Named Scooby-Doo Saturday morning cartoons, which came out in the eighties and then had been doing reruns on the Saturday morning cartoon block.

Mandy Kaplan:
Because you had cable growing up. I did not.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
I had three channels. I mean, yes, I could be your grandmother, but we don’t have to go there. Yeah, I love it. It’s timeless. They’ve made Scooby-Doo absolutely timeless. And why did you choose Zombie Island? I think you hinted at this. Because it’s extra creepy and gothic, and you like that vibe.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yes. It really leans into that classic horror aesthetic. I think today a lot of horror movies are very conceptual. They’re very, oh, the monster is grief. Like if you watch The Babadook, or the monster is…

Mandy Kaplan:
I love The Babadook. I did an episode on The Babadook. I do love The Babadook. I’m so glad you brought it up, because I’ve only done a couple of horror things on this show. But that was with Tommy Metz, who I think you met at Miscast. He is a horror expert fanatic, and he got me so into that movie. I love it so much.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah. I just love that really, really classic… it’s a haunted castle, the gothic horror, where there’s ghouls and ghosts and all that kind of stuff. I just really love that almost kitschy-level style of horror. So it means a lot to me for that. And I think this movie is a big deal. They advertise it as the first feature-length Scooby-Doo movie, which is true depending on what your definition of feature-length is.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right. This was about 98 minutes.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I think it has a 77-minute runtime, maybe?

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
But yeah, I think you’re right. It’s not in the nineties. It’s pretty short, but it’s longer than an hour, which is what the longest TV movies had been before. And this is the first Scooby-Doo movie to break that formula of it’s always a guy in a mask. This is the first piece of Scooby-Doo media where they have that twist. Fred pulls the mask off of the zombie, and then it’s a full head, which, as a kid, I’m like, oh my God. That’s terrifying.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. I was wondering that. I mean, spoiler alert, if you haven’t seen Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island, but it’s real. It’s real. These were real zombies, and it was lore. I couldn’t believe it, that it wasn’t just, “And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for you kids.” This is real monsters.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah. So this is the first piece of Scooby-Doo media that everybody remembers as having a real thing. Technically there was a series called Scooby-Doo and the 13 Ghosts, which did have real ghosts in it, but nobody watched it. So this is the thing that everybody remembers as being the first time that Scooby-Doo had real monsters. And I’m like, actually… but it is. I think it is, because it’s the one that everybody remembers.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
So there’s that part of it too, that it breaks the Scooby-Doo formula. This also puts Scooby-Doo back on the map in a way, because before this there hadn’t been any new Scooby-Doo on TV for a while. There were only reruns on Cartoon Network, but the reruns made Scooby-Doo so popular that Time Warner was like, let’s do a movie. They did this movie, it was super successful, and then that gave us the sequel, Scooby-Doo and the Witch’s Ghost, which introduces the Hex Girls, who I freaking love. And it gave us What’s New, Scooby-Doo?, which is the Scooby-Doo that I grew up watching, and that I think has the best theme song, by Simple Plan, which tells you exactly when it came out, which is in 2002.

Mandy Kaplan:
I don’t understand most of the words you said, but I love how much you light up when you talk about it. We have to discuss some characters that have changed since my memory of them. And we’re gonna do that right after this.

So Daphne is all grown up.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
And a real hottie. But I was confused, because I thought she and Fred had a thing, but then Daphne’s flirting with Beau the gardener, who is to die for. He’s like Prince Eric, but built. And Fred was flirting with Tara Strong. What’s happening?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I thought that was interesting too. That’s not something that I picked up on when I was a kid, but then when I watched it recently, I was like, what’s going on here? Are they just really comfortable with each other and they’re okay pointing out when the other one is cute? Because they only seem to get playfully upset with each other when they notice the other one is flirting with the other. Daphne’s like, “Oh, well, your girlfriend’s calling you,” and Fred’s like, “I didn’t say she was my girlfriend. I just said I liked her cooking.” And it doesn’t go any further than that. So I’m not sure what the nature of their relationship is. I feel like it’s changed from iteration to iteration. Sometimes they’re canonically a couple. Sometimes they have a tension, but it doesn’t go any further than that. Sometimes it’s will they, won’t they. So I don’t know what they’re doing.

Mandy Kaplan:
They’re the Sam and Diane of Scooby-Doo.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, it’s interesting. But this Scooby-Doo Daphne, you can tell that this is nineties, because they made her less of a damsel in distress. In the original series she’s always getting captured and falling into traps and stuff. And in this one she literally does a judo move on a zombie. And she has her own TV show.

Mandy Kaplan:
Well, yeah, it starts with, we learn Daphne has become a successful TV personality. And Fred’s her producer.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, he’s taking a more backseat role.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, but I thought, oh, for sure they’re a couple, and they act like a couple. It’s very complex and layered, Journie. I don’t know how I feel about it.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I know, yeah. It’s interesting. It’s not something that I really noticed as a kid. And then when I was watching it the other day, I was like, huh, what is going on there? And then Velma kind of… not ends up with, but it’s alluded that she has a thing for Beau by the end of it. And I’m like, what? So Daphne and Beau is not a thing? I don’t know.

Mandy Kaplan:
And Velma’s not gay?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Velma’s, yeah. She is gay in the most recent Scooby-Doo series. They actually make it legit. She gets a girlfriend.

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, I love that. Because in this one, her voice was too high for my liking. She didn’t sound like Velma to me. It’s obviously a new voice actor, I assume. It’s not the original from the seventies.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
No, they’re all new except for Frank Welker, who is the original voice actor of Fred. And I love him. I love the way he says “treasure” with his Midwestern accent. “There’s gotta be someone hiding the treasure on this island. The pirate treasure.” I’m obsessed with that. And Mark Hamill is in this in a small role as the fisherman, Snakebite.

Mandy Kaplan:
So, who turns out to be… oh no, wait, it’s the boat driver who turns out to be so evil.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, yeah. The fisherman is a red herring.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yep. There were a few red herrings. The plot was a little more complex than I remember from my childhood, and they fooled me with Beau. Because when we meet Beau the gardener… okay, so they go on a road trip to New Orleans, and they portray New Orleans in such a beautiful way. It’s very picturesque. I did an episode of Make Me a Nerd about Interview with the Vampire.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Oh.

Mandy Kaplan:
And this was reminiscent.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I love it.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I wish we could have done that. I love Interview with the Vampire.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, it makes you want to go to New Orleans. Even though it’s dark and dangerous in these stories. I have a thing for New Orleans. The Princess and the Frog. I have a real love of things set in New Orleans. So I was thrilled that that’s where this took place. It’s just so atmospheric. And then they get to the zombie island and they meet the hot gardener, Beau, and… wait, wait. I wrote his line down. Oh, I should have located it. Okay. “Oh, I’ll take care of it.” It’s like the first line he speaks, when the owner of the house is…

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yes.

Mandy Kaplan:
He’s so… that’s the perfect word. And I was like, oh, okay, I got it. It’s Beau. He’s the bad guy. No, no. Layered, complex story.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, I love how they actually give you a lot of characters of who could it be. Because you’re expecting it’s gonna be some guy in a mask. So you’re trained, if you’ve watched Scooby-Doo, to think, is that gonna be the guy in the mask? Is it gonna be that fisherman who’s also kind of sinister and weird? Is he gonna be the guy in the mask? And they also give you motives that they could have. Oh, Beau the gardener, he’s the bad guy because he gets treated so poorly by the people who own the mansion. Or, oh, the fisherman, he must be the bad guy because he wants the bayou all to himself. So they plant those seeds for you.

And then what you were saying about the atmosphere, the backgrounds on this movie are so lovingly painted. I wish I could find these cels and buy them and frame them and put them up in my house. They’re so, so pretty. And they really add to that whole Southern gothic vibe. They’re gorgeous. I feel like you could feel the humidity and all that stuff.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. Has the gang gone on many road trips? In terms of a specific location, I don’t remember them being that clear about a location.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I don’t think so. I think the Hanna-Barbera cartoons were produced for very little money. So they reused a lot of resources on those cartoons. In those original cartoons, there’s not a real sense of place.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
But later Scooby-Doo movies, they really do. They’re like, oh, we’re going to Australia to hunt a vampire. Or we’re gonna go to the Himalayas and hunt a Yeti. Or we’re gonna go find the Loch Ness Monster, and, yeah, we’re going to Ireland. But yeah, I think you kind of assume that because they have that van, that they must be road-tripping to go to all these haunted places in the cartoons. But I don’t think it’s ever a specific real place like New Orleans.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, it was beautifully done. Changing gears. Why are Shaggy and Scooby always so scared when they’ve done hundreds of cases, and it’s always just a D-bag in a mask?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
And Daphne even says in her interview on TV, oh, it always just turns out to be a bad guy, right? And so why do they get so scared? What’s up, Scooby and Shaggy?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Well, my question is, why do they even go on the mystery if they know they’re gonna be so scared? I always wonder. Everybody else in the gang is like, yeah, we’re gonna hunt a monster. Oh, I’m so excited. We’re gonna find out who did this. And then Shaggy and Scooby are like, oh, I hate hunting monsters. But they’re motivated by food. But they still go.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah. I don’t know. I think they’re the comic relief characters, and it’s funny to see them get scared, and it’s funny to see them run away from ghosts and have all of their goofy gags and stuff like that. I think maybe that’s the meta reason why they’re there. And I think Scooby is the gang’s good luck charm. In this movie, they’re the ones who end up saving everyone.

Mandy Kaplan:
Right.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Inadvertently.

Mandy Kaplan:
And I feel like that was a common theme back in the day too. Yeah, I think that’s a good thing. Scooby would bang into something and knock it over, and it would land on the bad guy.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, so I think, again, maybe the gang is like, we need these guys. I don’t know what they do for the group, but they do something, because every time they go on a mystery with them, it’s Shaggy and Scooby who end up doing something to figure it out and save them. But I don’t know. I tried to put myself in their shoes. Even if I knew that it was a crazy person in a mask chasing after me, a crazy person in a mask chasing after you is still pretty scary. Someone who’s insane enough to set up a hologram projector or something to scare people away from their property, that person’s crazy. I don’t want to be in the same room as that person, even if I know they’re not a ghost. For real.

Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. Well defended, Journie. Now you’ve convinced me. That makes perfect sense. I have a hot-button issue to discuss. Controversy. But before we get there, I have to tell everybody that Make Me a Nerd is a production of TruStory FM, engineering by the peerless Pete Wright. My theme song is “Wonderstruck” by Jane and the Boy. If you want to reach me on Instagram, it’s @Mandy_Kaplan_Klavens, both with K’s. I didn’t know my own last name. If you want to get me on TikTok, it’s @MandyMiscast. And if you would please, please, please leave an Apple review, five stars, and write something. I’ll give you a shout-out, and it helps more people find the podcast. And if you’re feeling extra supportive, go to makemeanerd.com/join. Hitting that button will get you your episodes ad-free and early, and my eternal gratitude.

Okay. They are very food motivated, as am I as a person, Shaggy and Scooby. Are they stoned? Oh, they gotta be. I looked it up and the creators deny it, but this was the sixties.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
You would deny it. You would deny it if you were making a cartoon for children in the sixties. But yeah, I think you’re right. It’s the sixties. Actually, I don’t know if Scooby is stoned. I think he’s just a dog. I have a very large dog. He’s like 120 pounds, and he will just eat anything. He has a voracious appetite. He is very food motivated, so I don’t think you would need to get him stoned to get him to eat as much as he does. I think Shaggy, I don’t know. I think he’s probably stoned. I think they also run around a lot. It must make them hungry. They’re always running around from monsters. Shaggy eats so much and he’s stick thin, so maybe they just have fast metabolisms from all that running around and being scared that they do.

Mandy Kaplan:
But I also think Shaggy’s sort of absent-minded nature alludes to some recreation.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
And then as I was thinking about this, and obviously I never thought about it as a kid, but now it feels pretty obvious, they did a close-up of Shaggy’s bloodshot eyes in this movie. And it’s because he ate hot peppers, if you can’t hear my air quotes. But I think it was a nod to, yeah, he’s pretty stoned.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, I think he’s stoned. I think they also make a reference to that in the first live-action Scooby-Doo movie, where you see the Mystery Machine and there’s smoke coming out of it and there’s giggling coming out of it. But then they cut to the inside of the van, and they’re just grilling something inside the van. But you could tell that they’re kind of lampshading, or making an allusion, that Shaggy is a stoner. And the way that he talks and everything.

Mandy Kaplan:
And it was Casey Kasem, right?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah. I don’t know if it was him in this movie, but…

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh no, no, no, not in this one.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, Casey Kasem actually reprised his role for What’s New, Scooby-Doo? as Shaggy. And in that one, Shaggy’s a vegetarian, because Casey Kasem is a vegetarian, and he said he wouldn’t come back to voice Shaggy unless Shaggy was also a vegetarian. So Shaggy’s eating a lot in that show, but it’s only vegetarian food that he’s eating, which I think is really funny.

Mandy Kaplan:
Hilarious. I remember as a kid being shocked, because I knew Casey Kasem as a DJ. He would do long-distance dedications, and he had a charming deep voice, and there were these Saturday morning countdowns, or Hot 100 countdowns. What was it called? I think Ryan Seacrest still does it. America’s Top 40. That was Casey Kasem when I was a kid. And then I would watch Scooby-Doo, and I never made the connection, because it was such a different-sounding voice from the smooth radio DJ.

But when I would watch as a kid, my whole raison d’être was to become a celebrity guest star on Scooby-Doo. When I was a kid, it was Phyllis Diller, and they would always reveal some cameo celebrity. And I thought, you know you’ve made it when you get to be a bad guy on Scooby-Doo. I’m still waiting.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I mean, you still could. They’re still making stuff.

Mandy Kaplan:
Are there celebrity cameos now, though?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
The most recent one I can remember… do you know the TV show Supernatural? Has anyone ever come in here to tell you about it?

Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. One of my very first episodes, with Krissy Lenz. And I really liked Supernatural, because it winks at itself in a fun way.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yes, I used to be obsessed with that show. I think there’s still a Dean Winchester poster hanging in my childhood bedroom at my parents’ house. But there’s a Scooby-Doo Supernatural crossover animated movie that I haven’t seen. I think that might be the most recent celebrity cameo thing that I can think of. And it’s not really a celebrity cameo, because it’s not Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki. It’s Dean and Sam Winchester playing their characters in it.

Mandy Kaplan:
Uh-huh.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
But yeah. They’ve done one with KISS, I think, as well.

Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, that sounds familiar. Yeah. Maybe I have to have you and Krissy come on and do that episode, the Scooby-Doo Supernatural crossover show.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Oh, I would love to.

Mandy Kaplan:
A drinking game Supernatural fan podcast called Gank That Drank.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Oh my God.

Mandy Kaplan:
Also in the TruStory family. And yeah, it’s tons of fun, because there are so many fun tropes that they just really embrace. They don’t shy away from it.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, I love Supernatural. That’s another horror thing that I just really love.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yep. How does Fred keep it so tight when he eats so many beignets?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I don’t know. Maybe the camera that he’s carrying around as Daphne’s producer is really heavy, and that helps him. Or maybe he’s wearing Spanx or something.

Mandy Kaplan:
Under those tight blue pants that aren’t jeans, they’re just slacks.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, yeah. I’m not sure. Those beignets do look really good, though. The powdered sugar and everything.

Mandy Kaplan:
So you actually made a beautiful transition for me, because you brought up that he’s filming, and I want to talk about that. I found this to be quite revolutionary, and we’ll get into it right after this.

So they go to the island because Daphne wants a story, and she wants to film what’s happening and make a docuseries about the monsters on Zombie Island. And I looked up some dates, and this preceded Blair Witch and Ghost Hunters. Ghost Hunters wasn’t on TV yet.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I had no idea. Wait, I actually did not know that. That’s so cool.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. So I’m sure there were some documentary series with, you know, the supernatural. But this was really essentially Ghost Hunters before Ghost Hunters was Ghost Hunters. And now I’m gonna stop saying Ghost Hunters. But I was like, damn, Scooby-Doo, you’re inspiring a whole movement. And Scooby and Shaggy get into some hot peppers, and they’re eating and suffering and eating and eating. And I was like, they invented Hot Ones. Do you watch Hot Ones?

Journie Ma-Johnson:
I have watched Hot Ones, yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
I love Hot Ones. So yeah, I was like, they owe Scooby-Doo the credit.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, Scooby-Doo, man, they’re revolutionary. That’s pretty interesting. I think it’s cool that they decided to make it a little bit more modern and have Fred be the camera person and have this whole TV show angle. I think that’s really fun. And I also like how in the original series Fred is always setting traps and stuff, trying to capture the monster that way. And then in this one he’s just trying to capture the monster on film. I think that’s cool, how they modernize it in that way.

Mandy Kaplan:
Except the camera he’s carrying is… I’m doing physical comedy here, but it’s this huge, heavy, old-timey camera compared to what it would be now.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
And then they lose it. Oh, it’s so tragic. It falls in the quicksand. And you’re like, no, Daphne’s footage. But I don’t know.

Mandy Kaplan:
I was so into it. When Fred fell towards the end, I genuinely gasped. It was a genuine moment of shock and surprise. And that’s when I wrote, “Oh, now I’m suspecting Lena.” And I was so proud that I got it. But I got it late. For something made for six-year-olds, I got it real late.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
They really, really layer on the plot in this movie. It’s like, okay, we’re gonna go to this haunted island. Is it really haunted? And then they’re like, yes, it is haunted. Who’s haunting it? Oh, it’s the pirate. Why is he haunting it? And then, oh, there’s zombies now. There’s ghosts and there’s zombies. And then out of nowhere, literally in the last ten minutes, they turn into these werecats. And that transformation scene… this was actually animated by a Japanese studio, and I feel like that transformation scene, you can really tell, because when the clothes rip and the hair floats up, it’s giving Dragon Ball Z. It’s very anime transformation. And then she turns to the camera, and, oh, it’s so fun.

But they really layer it on. It’s like, oh, the house is haunted because it’s made out of the ghost pirate ship, and then there’s the zombies, and why are they here, and then it turns out it’s these werecats. They’re gonna eat your soul, and they need it to sustain their immortality. I remember being mind-blown as a kid at how insane that plot was. I freaking love it. And I also love cats, so…

Mandy Kaplan:
I wish everyone could see your face right now. You are so lit up. It’s really adorable. But I get it. It’s one of those things that, because you loved it as a kid, it matters as an adult on a different level. It gives you double enjoyment because of your love for it as a kid.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah. There’s a scene, because this is also one of the first Scooby-Doo things to do what would later become a trope, of the mystery gang has split up and they’re gonna come back together. And there’s a scene where they’ve gotten everybody back together, and they pop out of the van and they say, “Surprise, happy birthday, Daphne.” And then Fred takes the “Coast to Coast with Daphne Blake” sign off of the van, and it shows the Mystery Incorporated on the van. And that just made me so unexpectedly emotional. I was like, oh my God, there it is, the Mystery Machine. It made me so happy. It just filled me with so much nostalgia. And it’s such an iconic design as well, that green and orange and the groovy… it hasn’t changed, either. They continue to keep with that design over the years, and I just think it’s so fun.

Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. And the music is slightly more modern, but feels very, very familiar from the olden days. And I commented that one of the songs, “Terror Time”…

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Mm-hmm.

Mandy Kaplan:
It’s a banger. And they did the montages the way they used to, but “Terror Time” was a great song.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Yeah, it’s great. They got Third Eye Blind on this, which is incredibly nineties. And the band that did “Terror Time,” they’re called Skycycle. And they’re most known for doing the soundtrack on this. But there’s honestly some really great Scooby-Doo music, even outside of this. I mentioned the Hex Girls earlier. And watching this kind of sent me down a Scooby-Doo rabbit hole.

Mandy Kaplan:
You’re welcome.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Thank you. But the Hex Girls, they show up in the sequel to this, Scooby-Doo and the Witch’s Ghost. And they’re this all-female goth rock band. The lead singer is a pagan, and they call themselves eco-goths. They really care about the environment. It’s actually so incredibly nineties of them. And they have this awesome song that’s like, “I’m a Hex Girl, and I’m gonna put a spell on you.” And it’s awesome. And they continue to show up in later Scooby-Doo stuff, and they always get a new song. There’s a lot of bangers in Scooby-Doo. And the What’s New, Scooby-Doo? theme song is by Simple Plan, and it’s also so good. It’s such a banger.

Mandy Kaplan:
You mentioned it. I have to go listen to it, because I don’t know much about What’s New, Scooby-Doo?. Journie, we did it. This brings us to the end of our journey. Sorry. I’m sorry. You can hate me for that. That was terrible. Thank you so much for bringing such nerdy love for something so fun and nostalgic and sweet and creepy and funny. It made me laugh so many times. Thank you so much for doing this.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Thank you for having me. Do you think you’re gonna watch more Scooby-Doo after this?

Mandy Kaplan:
Well, I’m definitely gonna go listen to the theme song for What’s New, Scooby-Doo?, and now I might want to check out the Hex Girls, because they sound like “We are the Misfits, our songs are better” from Jem.

Journie Ma-Johnson:
Oh yeah.

Mandy Kaplan:
I’m a big Jem fan. So a few rabbit holes to go down. Thank you, thank you, thank you, and thank you all for listening. Until next time. Bye.