Subscribe to the show in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you find your favorite podcasts!

Support The ADHD Podcast and get great perks by becoming a Patron • Learn More and Join Now!

2019 Year-in-Review and Listener Q&A!

It’s been an amazing year around these parts. Our community is growing and we’re all the better for it. This week on the show, we’re looking back a bit with some reflections on highlights from the last year, and taking a set of questions submitted by YOU that you said you’d like to hear more about. From RSD to the ADHD job hunt to the best fidgets, we’ve got it all this week!

This is the last show of 2019 as we take a little time off over the holidays and do our planning for 2020. We’ll be kicking off the January session with a series on ADHD in the workplace so, for those of you who submitted work-related questions for this Q&A episode, don’t worry! We got you… we’ll see you in January.

Links & Notes

Thank you for supporting The ADHD Podcast on Patreon!

Episode Transcript

Brought to you by The ADHD Podcast Community on Patreon

Pete Wright: Hello everybody, and welcome to Taking Control the ADHD podcast on RashPixel.FM. I’m Pete Wright and right over there is Nikki Kinzer.

Nikki Kinzer: Hello everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.

Pete Wright: Do you have your jingling bells, Nikki Kinzer?

Nikki Kinzer: I should have brought them in, because I really do have some. Yeah.

Pete Wright: Yeah, I know, it’s important. This is our last real official show of the year, we’re going to take a little time off over the holidays. And so that’s fantastic for us.

Nikki Kinzer: It is.

Pete Wright: Nice to get a little break in here.

Nikki Kinzer: It’s a good break.

Pete Wright: And come back in 2022.

Nikki Kinzer: Yeah.

Pete Wright: But today we are doing a little bit of reflection, talking about some of the things that were important to us this year. Things that we’ve been thinking about and taking on a few questions from the listeners. Now, I just have to say as a preamble, Nikki?

Nikki Kinzer: Yes.

Pete Wright: We got so many questions. We got so many questions and most of them, it’s felt like they were reading our schedule for 2020.

Nikki Kinzer: For 2020, I know.

Pete Wright: Right?

Nikki Kinzer: Yes.

Pete Wright: Like they were cheating and asking questions about what we’re already going to talk about.

Nikki Kinzer: It was a little strange.

Pete Wright: Cheaters.

Nikki Kinzer: [crosstalk 00:01:13].

Pete Wright: … cheater.

Nikki Kinzer: Right, right. So what are we going to talk about in January 2020?

Pete Wright: What we’re going to talk about workplace stuff.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes.

Pete Wright: We’re going to talk about ADHD in the workplace. I think that’s going to be great. We’ve got some… still a little bit of planning to do. But your questions that were purportedly supposed to be for us today, we’re not going to talk about those. I was looking at the questions, I was like, "Oh, wow, I think we took away three fours of the questions.

Nikki Kinzer: Right.

Pete Wright: That couldn’t be shoved into next year.

Nikki Kinzer: I think we did. Because the whole show today would have been all about workplace and it would probably would have been about three to four hours of the show.

Pete Wright: That’s right. Exactly.

Nikki Kinzer: So it’s definitely better for everyone that we break that up into actual shows next year, though. Stay tuned.

Pete Wright: That is exactly right. Yes. And so it looks like our first show back next year is going to be, what is that? The 7th of January?

Nikki Kinzer: Well, it will be-

Pete Wright: January 7th this Tuesday, we will record that live stream on the… I guess we’ll do it on New Year’s Eve.

Nikki Kinzer: No.

Pete Wright: That’ll be the third year.

Nikki Kinzer: No, we’re not.

Pete Wright: We’re not going to do that, no [inaudible 00:02:14].

Nikki Kinzer: No, we’re actually not going to be back live until January 14. Because-

Pete Wright: Oh, okay. So we’re recording on the 6th.

Nikki Kinzer: … will record on the 6th. Yes. And then you will make that go live to our Patreon people that week. They’ll get it that week. And then the public will get it on the 14th so we’re three weeks off-

Pete Wright: Outstanding.

Nikki Kinzer: We’re three weeks off of the show, yeah.

Pete Wright: Yeah, excellent. So there you go. But you know what, maybe I’ll throw some best of episode in the feed again.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes, that’s a great idea.

Pete Wright: One or two of those. Some of our favorites from this year, we’ll drop in the feed and talk about that stuff. Gearing up for 2020. Until then, or before then I should say head over to take control, you can get to know us a little bit better. You can listen to the show right there on the website or subscribe to the mailing list, and you’ll get an email each time a new episode is released. You can connect with us on Twitter or Facebook at take control ADHD. And I’m not going to belabor it right now because it’s one of my deep reflections. But check out the group, the ADHD community at if you thought hey, you know what would be a great thing for me to do the things? The things I’m thankful for one of them is the ADHD Podcast, you can actually demonstrate that. You could take action to demonstrate the thing that you’re thankful for at So, thanks in advance, more on that in a minute.

Pete Wright: Okay, let’s talk about group coaching.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes.

Pete Wright: This is our last shot.

Nikki Kinzer: It’s my last shot. And I’m going to be really cheesy about it.

Pete Wright: Oh, good.

Nikki Kinzer: Do you want to clear vision for 2020? Right? How awesome is that?

Pete Wright: Yeah. No. Wrap that right in.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes, clear vision for 2020. Anyway, if you do, because who doesn’t want clear vision, even with glasses, no glasses, whatever. Consider signing up for one of my coaching group. So this is the deal. I’ve got two different coaching groups that we’ll to be offering in January, we’re going to be meeting for 10 weeks, there’s going to be check ins in between sessions and then one private individual coaching session with me that you can basically do at any time, either during the coaching, group coaching or afterwards, each member will pick a focus for the week and update the group with their progress. So there’s some accountability in the groups. Plus we have great group discussions on a variety of different ADHD topics. So the deadline to enroll for winter group coaching is January 3rd, and coaching will begin, I set the week of January 23rd, but I don’t think that’s correct. It’s going to actually start the week of January 13.

Pete Wright: The same week we’ll come back from the podcast. Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes, yes. The groups will start on the week of the 13th. The deadline is the third. There you go. And you can visit the website for show notes for more information about how the group is set up. And of course, if you have any questions, you can always email me.

Pete Wright: Absolutely. Okay. Let’s talk about reflections, what are the things you’re very excited about from this year?

Nikki Kinzer: Oh, there’s been so many things I think, as you were saying before, we’re at least what I think you’re leading to is the Patreon group has been fantastic. It has been very inspirational and has just been a really great added piece to the show and to our lives and to the people that we are communicating with. And so I love to see it grow. I love to see the support. To me, that’s been one of the biggest highlights of the year for sure. The new merchandise. Wow.

Pete Wright: Well, that’s super fun.

Nikki Kinzer: That’s fun. Who would have thought that we would have merchandise? Well, you’ve always thought that.

Pete Wright: I wanted it for a long time that’s true.

Nikki Kinzer: You’ve always wanted it. Yeah. I think that’s pretty cool that we’re able to provide that. And we’ve had some great guests this year. I’m really honored to have some of these experts that have come on, have graciously taken their time to be with us and to speak to our listeners. And I just always in awe that, Dr. Hallowell came on our show. Wow. Have you noticed just really cool and all the other guests everything that they have to offer in their niches and their expertise. It’s just been great. I’m very, very thankful for that.

Nikki Kinzer: As a coach, I’m grateful to the podcast too, because we get to put our message out there and that’s a lot of how I’m able to be a coach because then people are listening and they want to have that one on one coaching and they talked to me and they feel like they already know me and know you and so that’s been great too. It’s all tied into the podcast, which is a big, big part of what I do, what you do. And it’s just been a great year. I love it.

Pete Wright: It has been a great year, to the Patreon thing, it’s a little bit stunning to me that our growth in patrons has just about doubled over the last year which it’s just really cool that we’re almost to the point where we’ve got all of our invested time compensated. It feels like we’re not… You know then that’s a big deal, right for podcasting. Because podcasting it’s not like you go to a movie. It’s not like you pay cable subscription. It’s this whole listener supported thing. I’m still wrapping my head around it. I pay my National Public Radio, I’m a member of our little community there, but I’ve never really stopped to think about it until I was a recipient of it. Like what that means, these are people that I support, who are out there doing their jobs and reporting on the news and I support them with a little bit because I want to contribute to them feeding their family.

Pete Wright: Now we’re to the point where we’re asking for the same and the sense of gratitude and warmth that just wells up inside me when I think about that, when I look at the list of members here that have chosen to contribute their time and spoils to us to feed our families is just enormous. It is unbelievable to me these people that are doing that. And they’re doing it like I know we have some perks, but generally nobody has come to us and said, "Oh, I want more perks, I’m paying for more than what you already do. These are people who are coming just because they’ve already said you’re doing the thing. Keep doing it.

Nikki Kinzer: They want to support us.

Pete Wright: Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer: Wonderful.

Pete Wright: That’s incredible.

Nikki Kinzer: It’s humbling.

Pete Wright: I’ve had the practice saying this because I choke up on it. It’s hard to do. And I want to continue to deliver in 2020 and I’m just very, very excited to have a platform and a foundation that allows us to make decisions about doing more stuff and maybe taking more risks and inviting more people and great people. And that because of this community, these people will listen and that’s incredible to me. It’s just incredible. The other thing I have to shout out to is a specific topic. And that is rejection sensitivity, RSD.

Nikki Kinzer: Right, yes.

Pete Wright: If there was any one topic that we’ve talked about on this show that has straight up changed my life, it’s that. Like putting words to this thing that I never had words to describe has changed the way I talk about my ADHD to people who don’t know any better.

Nikki Kinzer: Absolutely.

Pete Wright: It’s changed the way I talk about my emotional relationship with the world around me. And it’s stunning.

Nikki Kinzer: Well, I think you’re speaking for a lot of people because we have in our Patreon discord, there’s been a lot of conversation around RSD and a lot of people having the same feelings that you’re having and just being able to talk about it and again, having Dr. William Dodson on the show was a great honor. And it was really fascinating. That was probably one of the most interesting shows that we did because I just found the information so interesting and what he had to say about it. Yeah, I think it touched a lot of people and it’s a conversation that really, it just keeps continuing. One of our questions right, was about RSD. I think we will probably talk about that a little bit, right? Or are we talking about that right now?

Pete Wright: Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer: Is that what you’re doing?

Pete Wright: Well, we’re going to talk about that in a bit, but I’ve one more thing thankful for.

Nikki Kinzer: Okay, all right. Sorry. I was like-

Pete Wright: No, it’s all right. No, it’s-

Nikki Kinzer: … are we skipping to that part? What are we doing?

Pete Wright: No, I got one more, which is we talked about sexy time.

Nikki Kinzer: No, yeah. We talked [crosstalk 00:11:39].

Pete Wright: We talked about sex and ADHD on the show.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes.

Pete Wright: If we, in our little ADHD corner of the internet can encourage more people of goodwill to have more good sex, then I will consider our job well done.

Nikki Kinzer: Hey, we’re there for the people.

Pete Wright: If that could be on… That’s that line number one on my headstone. Pete Wright, he helped us have better sex through our ADHD. I’m done.

Nikki Kinzer: You’re done.

Pete Wright: Whatever’s next I’ll take it.

Nikki Kinzer: It’s great.

Pete Wright: That is awesome.

Nikki Kinzer: And he will be back on the show.

Pete Wright: He’s coming back, yeah.

Nikki Kinzer: Yeah, I don’t know if that’s specifically what he’ll be talking about. But I know he will be coming back. He’s a funny guy.

Pete Wright: Oh, he’s a very funny guy, yeah.

Nikki Kinzer: Yeah, I talked to him at the conference, and I really enjoy his company. So we’ll definitely have him come back.

Pete Wright: Yes. That’s right. That’s right. So that’s it. Now we’ve already talked about our challenges with questions about the workplace. So if you came here, if you’re watching the live stream, and you’re like, “Oh, I really wish you would talk about my workplace.” Hang on. We’re going to come back to that next year, next year.

Nikki Kinzer: Next year, when you want a better vision for 2020.

Pete Wright: That’s right. That’s right.

Nikki Kinzer: That just cracks me up every time I say it.

Pete Wright: It’s the simple things.

Nikki Kinzer: It’s the simple things.

Pete Wright: Doesn’t take much.

Nikki Kinzer: No.

Pete Wright: Okay, here we go. But we’ve got some questions to talk about. Would you like to do the first one? Would you like me to do that? What do you want me do?

Nikki Kinzer: Well, I want you… You have to do the questions because you’re [inaudible 00:13:09] out of the two of us.

Pete Wright: Okay, I’m just going to read it. I’m just going to read it.

Nikki Kinzer: Just read it.

Pete Wright: Because I think judging by our comments, I think the pieces that stuck out to you are different than the pieces that stuck out to me and I think that’s fascinating.

Nikki Kinzer: Well, that’s not surprising.

Pete Wright: Right? Okay. So here you go. I’d like to hear how to handle criticisms of one’s ADHD symptoms. For example, I’m still smarting over rebuke from my rabbi about my procrastination. I just sat there and took it because that’s been my MO. But in the month since it has continued to bother me because there’s a man so thoughtful and sensitive toward congregants with physical disabilities. I spent a lifetime apologizing for my ADHD symptoms, even before they have a name, despite doing my very best to manage them, and I wish people would meet me halfway with a little understanding. Such a good question. Okay.

Nikki Kinzer: Well, it is. And it’s a great statement at the end to that she wishes people would just meet her halfway with a little understanding. So the way that I took this is first of all, I just I’m sorry. I’m sorry that she had to experience this situation because it’s really hard. When you set somebody up to really a different standard, right? You expect that person is going to be really thoughtful and really compassionate. And then when they’re not that way, it’s very, very disappointing. And the RSD the rejection sensitivity is where I went on this a little bit is that you’re going to feel that, you’re going to feel almost that rejection from the rabbi. And so my first thought was just I’m really sorry that she had to deal with this.

Nikki Kinzer: Second thought was to say again, to just remind her that she’s not broken and that she’s doing the best that she can with her ADHD symptoms. I think that with the rabbi, it’s a little bit different situation. But if you have other people too that you’re feeling this type of rejection from or this kind of situation where you feel like you have to apologize all the time. My recommendation is look at who you are surrounding yourself with, who are the people around you and try to maybe spend as less time with those people that aren’t meeting you halfway, if you can, because it’s not worth your time and energy. We know that we can’t change people’s minds, we can’t necessarily make somebody be a more empathetic person.

Nikki Kinzer: I would say really think about who you’re paying your attention to, and stay connected to the people that do understand you and really care about you. It’s something that I didn’t say, and I don’t know if you’re going to say this or not, but I also think it’s fine to stand up for yourself. And I know that’s really hard when you’re in that kind of situation, but there’s something to say too about standing up for yourself. Maybe not necessarily having to apologize. We know there’s different ways to say things. Where’s it’s not you always saying you’re sorry, but I really just… It makes me sad to hear that she just took it. And there’s something about that, that really bothers me.

Pete Wright: That’s exactly where my head was going to Nikki. That line is the one that stuck with me. He’s usually so sensitive toward other congregants who have, not my words and more demonstrable like, disability, right, and challenge. But just taking it because that’s your MO, that’s a practiced state, right. It’s a learned state, I should say. An unintentionally practiced state of just taking it, and that’s something really hard. If there’s anything I feel like we’ve heard out of this RSD conversation is that, like we internalize our rejection without thought. And that’s what gives us that state of turmoil, right? Which is that we don’t take any action to respond and to educate on our experience. We just, we’ve learned to take it, we’ve learned to just accept it and move on and we get to own all of the feelings about it.

Pete Wright: But I would just say to the questioner, when’s the last time you wrote out a few lines to help frame this conversation yourself now that you have some words to put to it? This is RSD, this is my experience with ADHD. Doing that gives you a chance to control a dialogue about your ADHD with somebody who clearly needs to have that conversation. And clearly needs to have an eye opening conversation about your worldview.

Nikki Kinzer: Absolutely.

Pete Wright: I think to have that in your words, just in your back pocket for those moments when you need to pull it out and not in antagonistic way but just in a way to describe like, this is what I live with every day. And it’s just as much of a challenge because of the fireworks up here. For me to sit still, for me to have a conversation in a class, for me to whatever. That’s the one that-

Nikki Kinzer: I agree.

Pete Wright: … stuck with me. Because it’s I really believe this is a worldview education issue in this particular [inaudible 00:18:42].

Nikki Kinzer: Yes, I do too. Very good.

Pete Wright: Okay, tough one.

Nikki Kinzer: I know it is.

Pete Wright: Let’s do an easy one. I’m going to say, I say that I shouldn’t say it’s an easy one because I’ve struggled a long time with this one. My question is about the meal planning show. So the show focused on meal planning for dinner and a family what I’m interested in knowing how to meal plan for one person and for breakfast and dinner? Also, I get overwhelmed from all my choices because I have so many posts from Facebook and Instagram and Pinterest plus I have a ton of cookbooks that I want to use. Okay, that’s not easy. It’s not easy.

Nikki Kinzer: It’s not and I completely relate to this question because I have… I don’t save the recipes on Facebook or Instagram, but I certainly do on Pinterest. And I have a ton of cookbooks that I would love to go through and use. So, I understand how overwhelming it could be. Now as far as how would you meal plan for one person? Honestly, I would say use the exact same concept for one person as you would the family. So you can go back and listen to that show there isn’t anything different except for how much you make. Right? So you’re cooking for one. However, I would say cook for two so that you have some leftovers because we want to make things easy. If you can cook for two and you’ve got two meals right there, then you’ve already made the job a lot easier.

Pete Wright: Well, that’s right. And the questioner says, I’m interested in breakfast and dinner. Is that because your leftovers satisfied lunch? Awesome.

Nikki Kinzer: Right.

Pete Wright: Well planned.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes.

Pete Wright: Yeah. I know. I think that’s great. For me, yeah, I calendar that. I guess the only other difference that I would add to that maybe is that you don’t necessarily need to put them on a public whiteboard in your kitchen, right? Maybe you just and what I would do is put them in my main calendar, or my in my case, the family calendar. Once we plan the meals, we put them in the calendar and if there’s a link to a recipe off site, we’ll do it but generally I have a notebook in Evernote, it’s called the recipe book. And when I come up with a recipe that I want, I want to get it out of Pinterest or Facebook or all recipes or even a cookbook. I’ll take a picture of it and get it out of that source and put it in my recipe book, right, because I want to know that those links are there and they’ll live forever and I can get to them whenever I want. I can link to them from my calendar.

Pete Wright: I can do all sorts of things. But when I look at my calendar, I have then reduced distraction. That is the worst thing for me, is when I like, oh, what was that recipe for the, autoimmune protocol Stromboli that I like so much.

Nikki Kinzer: And where was that? Where did I find that. Yeah.

Pete Wright: I think that was on… Yeah. And then I find it on Pinterest maybe. But then I find 10,000 other recipes that are totally distracting me. If I had that process, if I had a landing place for those recipes, where I could take a screenshot of it or a picture of it in a cookbook and I could send it there to the trusted system. I remove the distraction from all of the other signal, all the other noise I should say. I remove all that noise and I just extract the signal and I now have it in a place where I can use it.

Nikki Kinzer: Absolutely.

Pete Wright: And that has been a real lifesaver.

Nikki Kinzer: A great idea.

Pete Wright: Yeah. I would stop collecting things in all of the different little buckets, and start with a bigger bucket that is just worst.

Nikki Kinzer: Well, and one of the things that I think helps the decision making is, is having those favorite meals somewhere listed out too, so that you’re not…. Part of meal planning, part of the reason it’s hard, at least for me, is that I don’t remember everything that we like. I don’t remember all of the options. So when you’re not hungry, or you’re not really craving anything, it’s hard to even know where to start. So if you have that list of what your favorite meals are for breakfast, lunch and dinner, you have these proven recipes, and maybe that list is in Evernote or however you want to organize it. But I think that that helps the decision making because then you can just quickly look at that. And I can see what… You’re distracting me right now. What do you have here?

Pete Wright: I did. Did you see what I did there?

Nikki Kinzer: Yeah.

Pete Wright: I’m sharing my recipe book with you. You can see it in the live stream right now. This is my recipe book. And this is my paleo autoimmune protocol Stromboli.

Nikki Kinzer: Oh, so you were lying.

Pete Wright: What I love so much about this-

Nikki Kinzer: That was really true.

Pete Wright: I’m not lying, no.

Nikki Kinzer: Okay.

Pete Wright: It’s legit and so good. But you can see what I like so much about having my bucket and having it organized by date of recency. So I can see what am I interested in this week, right. I can see that slow cooker buffalo chicken sliders on sweet potato buns is… And I literally mean a sweet potato, it’s incredible. I can actually see these things and they’re right up top. So I can schedule them, and link back to these individual notes. And know that these are the things that I’m most interested in right now. It’s a great way to do that. And I just love being able to clip straight to this thing that I own, right. It’s mine, it’s not Pinterest, if I’m going to distract myself with other recipes, it’s other recipes generally that I know and have either tried or have demonstrated that I want to try and that’s huge.

Nikki Kinzer: Very cool. Look at you.

Pete Wright: 528 recipes in there, it can be a little distracting.

Nikki Kinzer: Wow.

Pete Wright: It’s all right.

Nikki Kinzer: Well, one thing I do want to say is if you do want to do a new recipe, zero in on one recipe and then take it, put it in Evernote, do whatever you want to do with it, but then don’t look at anything else, right?

Pete Wright: Yeah, that’s it.

Nikki Kinzer: We just want to focus on the one that you want and if it works, then you can add it to your favorites. So we want to just keep simplifying.

Pete Wright: This note, sometimes I share, right? This whole recipe book with my wife in Evernote. And sometimes I’ll get so distracted that she will open up her version of Evernote on her phone and she will text me just the recipe out of the recipe book that we already have. I’m not saying it’s completely distraction free. Sometimes I actually count on my accountability buddy to just say, just look at your text. Don’t look at any other apps, just your text.

Nikki Kinzer: Just look at that. And that’s what you need to know.

Pete Wright: Because sometimes I need it. But yeah, that’s how we do it.

Nikki Kinzer: So this listener that asked the question actually has a recommendation too, she said that she started using the meal service called Freshly. She gets six pre made meals a week, which I just microwave to eat and I use these for lunch so I don’t have to worry about lunches. So that’s why she doesn’t have the lunch on there. The meals are really good, and it really helped me not feel so overwhelmed by the whole meal planning. So those meal services, I know that there’s lots of them. That can also be a great solution for people.

Pete Wright: Look at these lovely meal.

Nikki Kinzer: I know it’s great.

Pete Wright: Buffalo chicken. Freshly looks like a lovely service. They’ve got some incredible meals just this week. Look at this, and I’m not even getting an affiliate burger. I’ve never even heard of

Nikki Kinzer: I haven’t either.

Pete Wright: This is a great cauliflower shell bolognese. Oh, that sounds good.

Nikki Kinzer: Yeah.

Pete Wright: A cauliflower, that’s a utility veg right there.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes, it is.

Pete Wright: You can do anything with cauliflower.

Nikki Kinzer: Right.

Pete Wright: There’s some lovely stuff on here. So here’s an interesting thing. Six meals a week, 10 bucks a meal. That’s about right.

Nikki Kinzer: Great.

Pete Wright: Nice and affordable.

Nikki Kinzer: Let’s [crosstalk 00:26:14].

Pete Wright: Next question.

Nikki Kinzer: Okay, so next question, P.

Pete Wright: All right.

Nikki Kinzer: Go ahead, Casey.

Pete Wright: I’m curious. I’m curious about job hunting strategies that are friendly for ADD brain. Keeping motivation high dealing with rejection, how to keep momentum and stick to routines when there is no schedule, et cetera. There’s a lot buried in that, it’s [crosstalk 00:26:36].

Nikki Kinzer: Well, this could definitely be something that we will probably continue the conversation next year.

Pete Wright: Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer: Because this is a big topic. And I actually have a couple of a couple of clients now who are in the job hunting arena. It’s hard to find things that are friendly for the ADHD brain, that’s for sure. But, as much as you can have a plan in place. And what I mean by that is how much time do you want to focus on job hunting? If you are not currently working, then is this something that you can plan to do a little bit during the day? Schedule it like a job, have some kind of structure that from 10:00 to 2:00, you’re going to be looking at your resume, you’re going to be looking at job opportunities. It’s that structure that will make it a little bit more of a routine that will help you stay… It will help you move forward or keep moving forward.

Nikki Kinzer: The problem that I see with even my current clients is that they know that they need to do things, but the motivation’s not there. And it’s really hard to find that motivation when you’re feeling all of these things, right? And depending on how you’re leaving your last job… There’s just a lot going on. So as much structure and accountability and help and support that you can get I think can really help break in the job hunting process down into steps. It can feel very overwhelming. So really just look at what’s the first thing you need to do. Maybe that’s just review your resume. After you review and update your resume, do you want somebody else to look at it? I highly recommend that you do. You don’t necessarily need to pay for somebody to look at it, but do have a friend or somebody edit it and look at it.

Nikki Kinzer: If you’re going to be filling out applications, maybe get all of the information into one document that you know an application would be asking for. So it’s very easy for you to cut and paste and refer back to when applying. So making that a simpler situation where you’re not having to rethink, over and over again, what you did in this job or whatever. If you can set goals for yourself to kind of quantify the process. I’ve done this before with other clients where they’ll say, “Well, I’d like to have at least three applications by the end of the day.” Or, “I’d like to have my resume done by the end of the week.” That gives you a goal. It gives you something to focus on where you don’t have to focus on everything else. And so that can be really helpful.

Nikki Kinzer: When you’re at the point where you’re ready to do interviews, I highly recommend that you practice and prepare for those interviews, have somebody that you work with or not work with, but somebody you trust and do a mock interview, and research that company. And have your questions prepared because you’re going to be interviewing them just as much as they’re interviewing you. So you want to make sure it’s the right fit for you. If you’re having a hard time getting started work in sprints, we know that can be really effective, where you’re only doing maybe 15 or 30 minutes at a time and dealing with the rejection. Oh, man, we go back to the RSD, right? It is just a hard and complicated and sticky situation.

Nikki Kinzer: I would encourage you to look at where you can possibly grow and learn from your past interviews. Think about how you worded things. Is there a different way to maybe do it. But I got to tell you, Pete, when it comes to jobs and things that… I just believe that the universe has our back. And I think that if you didn’t get that job, then it probably wasn’t the right job for you, for whatever reason, it wasn’t the right one. So you keep trying and you keep looking for that right one. And it may take some time, right? Because we know with RSD depending on what’s going on, it can take a lot of time. But being patient with yourself and knowing that that’s what’s happening because again, what we said is it’s giving you words to what you’re feeling. And that’s what I would say.

Pete Wright: It’s a really hard one and I feel like the rejection part there is something to practicing being rejected, right?

Nikki Kinzer: Well, because we all will be.

Pete Wright: We all will be.

Nikki Kinzer: And we all are.

Pete Wright: Yeah. The first job you go for, in all likelihood, you’re not going to get it.

Nikki Kinzer: Right.

Pete Wright: And it’s not going to be a reflection of who you are.

Nikki Kinzer: No.

Pete Wright: It’s going to be a reflection of just somebody who has a better fit for that one role, or that one company. It takes a long time to internalize the experience of being rejected and not applying that rejection to your skin, not tattooing it on your identity, because that it’s not a part of your identity. It’s just a representation of it. It’s just it what it is. I think the more you practice shooting for opportunities that you can be rejected from, is is going to sound very strange, right? Apply for jobs, that you probably would say no to, that you don’t think they’re a good fit, just so you can practice the act of being rejected and the act of maybe even getting lucky and getting an interview and then saying, you know what, it’s not a good fit. There’s nothing that’s more confidence building than you rejecting them after exploration. But that’s what it is. Right? It’s this given take.

Pete Wright: The thing that came to me when I first read this question actually took me back a few years Nikki. To sorting, the sorting process, right. The organizing process, the steps in the organizing process. The thing that overwhelms me the most and that I’m having flashbacks of that, because we’re going through the college application process right now, is keeping applications and status updated over time, right. And I feel like approaching the system to keep yourself organized, can help you maintain confidence and momentum. The worst thing that I think happens for me is when I start a process and just have a stack of stuff, and I will fill out an application or I’ll go to an online forum. They are the worst, right? You’re applying for a job, you get an online forum and you fill it out and you hit submit, and you don’t remember what you put in there. And you don’t have any record that you did it, or maybe you took a screenshot off a submission page, but you don’t remember the answers to questions.

Pete Wright: Those things will trip you up. And they are cumulative, right? They’ll trip you up worse the second time than the first. And it just adds over and over until you have a mountain of things that you don’t remember you’ve already done. So putting some attention to how you’re going to track your stuff-

Nikki Kinzer: A great idea.

Pete Wright: This is the thing that I think merits a longer show, which is actually setting up your life for the job hunt process, right? How do you do that? Especially when the job hunt process changes every year, there’s some new innovation from HR that defines how we integrate with companies. I think putting some thought into that too. Practice getting rejected so that doesn’t hurt so much. And think about systems, those are the things I would… Oh, I got one more. Record yourself on video even on your phone so you see what you look like when you are talking.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes, absolutely. That’s a great idea. You can do that when you’re doing the mock interview too. Is definitely recorded or videotape yourself. It would be really interesting too I think with the video to see how you’re sitting, how you’re standing, what you’re doing with your arms, what you’re doing with your legs. All those things that you could actually observe would be really interesting.

Pete Wright: Next question. I’d be interested in a follow up show on the topic of Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria. Well, we’ve just been talking about that. Guidance that we can do other than medication to manage the inevitable emotional turmoil that comes from rejection. Even when I know rationally, it’s no big deal, it’ll pass and it’s just my sensitivity kicking in my nervous system doesn’t want to cooperate and it takes a while to regain normalcy. When I’m in it, I’m distracted, sensitive and more scattered. It may take hours a day, sometimes more to pass, depending on how big the slight or my perceived slight. Big productivity killer, the typical, let it go advice does not work. Scratch that off the list, number one.

Nikki Kinzer: Absolutely. And this is a beautiful definition of what this means, right? She or he is defining what RSD means. And oh man, again, I wish that you and I could give out some really clear strategies and say this is what you need to do. And this is how it’s going to make it go away. But the reality is, there’s just no way we can do that. I wish I could do a follow up show on RSD. And I hope that we can, but really, I feel like it is so complicated. And it’s so much a part of ADHD. It boggles my mind. I’ll just be honest, it boggles my mind. I wish I could give relief. I think that the awareness part is really good because now we do have words to say how we’re feeling. And we understand what’s going on. I would always encourage people to… When you’re feeling that RSD really strongly all the time, I really encourage you to go talk to a therapist and get that counseling to help sort out your feelings.

Nikki Kinzer: Look for those triggers and ways to cope. Pete and I, and I’m going to speak for you a little bit, Pete, but you can correct me if you’d like. I wish I knew more about how to deal with this. I really do. And it’s just as new to me too, because when he said those things, and he was explaining it, I didn’t have it. I didn’t have words to it. Until Dr. [inaudible 00:37:26] did.

Pete Wright: Yeah, yeah. Now, I think that’s really true. And so in many respects, like just talking about it is new.

Nikki Kinzer: Right.

Pete Wright: [inaudible 00:37:35] it’s me. It’s just new to the language, still practicing the language. I would say letting it go is not what you want to do. I don’t want to let it go. I want to understand it. I want to expand what is it, that’s [inaudible 00:37:47]. I have a gross analogy that I think about. Have you ever had the athlete’s foot? You ever get the athlete’s foot?

Nikki Kinzer: I never but I was always worried about it in college, so I’d wear flip flops in the dorm showers.

Pete Wright: That’s smart. That’s smart. I just got over it. And it took weeks and weeks and weeks. And I thought at one point, you know what, just take the toes, I don’t need them. Just take them. It’s awful. It is something that I didn’t invite upon myself. I didn’t use risky locker room behavior.

Nikki Kinzer: Right. Yes.

Pete Wright: Right? It’s just something that happened from somewhere from someone and it started eating my skin.

Nikki Kinzer: I’m so sorry.

Pete Wright: And that to me, it’s RSD. RSD is the athlete’s foot of our emotional regulatory system. And it’s terrible and you can’t control it. All you can do is clean it and don’t pick at it because that does make it worse. And eventually it passes. But until you’ve gone through it, you don’t know that it passes. Once you have words to describe the experience you recognize, it will eventually pass and hopefully you understand what it takes for you to treat it better the second time than the first and the third time than the second. And eventually, you get to the point where it’s there and you know it hurts and you can look at it and you can stare at it, and hopefully distance yourself from the intimate experience and the uncertainty of it.

Pete Wright: And that I think, is the important part for me, when I’m in an RSD reactive situation. I have to find a way to give myself that out of body experience that says okay, I’m going to step out of my emotional system and I’m going to watch. Because I know that when I do that, I know that guy over there he’s going to move through this but I have to be able to move on with my day. I don’t have an answer and I’m sure we will have more people this coming year talking about this and have more guests as we learn to explore this too.

Nikki Kinzer: Absolutely.

Pete Wright: But man that athlete’s foot analogy, that’s a lock, right?

Nikki Kinzer: That’s a good one.

Pete Wright: Gross but [crosstalk 00:40:02].

Nikki Kinzer: Not going to forget it that’s for sure.

Pete Wright: I live to serve.

Nikki Kinzer: That’s right.

Pete Wright: Okay.

Nikki Kinzer: Last question.

Pete Wright: A show about fidgeting. How it helps with focus, how to integrate fidgets to your life. Let’s talk about fidgeting and the different types of fidgets that are out there now. And this is a very good question. And I don’t think as adults, we talked about fidgets enough.

Nikki Kinzer: Probably we don’t want it maybe we will have a show on it. But I definitely wanted to talk about it a little bit today because we don’t talk about it enough with adults.

Pete Wright: No.

Nikki Kinzer: I want to talk first of all a little bit about what happens when you’re playing with a fidget toy and why it does help. What happens is research shows that physical activity, when you do something, it increases the level of neuro transmitters, specifically the dopamine, right? And the brain. And that is what controls focus and attention. If you’re fidgeting with something in your hand or even just tapping your foot, it can help block, not saying it does completely but it can help block out distractions, fight boredom, and increase your productivity. So, doing two things at once, helps the brain actually focus on the primary task, but one of those things has to be mindless. That’s why having a fidget, something fidgety? I like the smooth rock. Yes, you’ve got like a ring thing.

Pete Wright: No, I have my… this I think is a dog toy.

Nikki Kinzer: Is it?

Pete Wright: It’s just a very dense rubber dog toy. I have that and I have a smooth piece of wood. This is a smooth wood block, is my desktop fidget that I have.

Nikki Kinzer: I have a smooth stone that I put it in my hand and it helps me stay focused. And so whatever that is for people, but this is a mindless task, right? So I could be doing a podcast and still have this in my hand, technically I’m doing two things at once, but one is pretty mindless. I had a group member in one of our group calls who always knit when she was on the call. And that was something that she could do, as she was listening to the call. So we know that fidgets can be a great accommodation for children, right? That’s where we usually talk about it, is having some kind of fidget toy or something like that in class. But it can’t distract other people. So that’s why that whole fidget spinner thing, that was just a stupid option.

Pete Wright: Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer: Because you know what happened is people without ADHD, were taking those things and they were spinning them around and causing all kinds of chaos in the classroom and the people that really did need to fidget, all of a sudden now is downplayed that they really need a fidget. So the whole thing, I do not like the fidget spinner though. That’s my own personal thing.

Pete Wright: Actually, unfortunately love the fidget spinner for myself. But only in my own, when nobody else is around.

Nikki Kinzer: … is around, right?

Pete Wright: Right. Because that is something that I can do with one hand and I can just spin it and gives my hand a sense of balance. But as soon as anybody else is around, they’re too distracted by me doing it.

Nikki Kinzer: Right.

Pete Wright: They want it, they want to play with it. “Oh, can I hold it?” And I’m not into that. So I usually put it away. I do have a couple in my little drawer over here. The other thing when I was living in Korea, it was just an amazing experience, the tricks, digital dexterity that Korean college students had with their pens. And so I did learn a couple of pen tricks that work perfectly with my Apple Pencil because it’s weighted just right and so you can do all the flippy dippy tricks. And so my pen which is silent, it doesn’t have a click to it. I can just flip it around my fingers silently and that is something that I use. I like a lot.

Nikki Kinzer: Great. It’s great. Well, and one of the things that I saw in my research or that I read in my research was that it helps to be intentional with your fidget, toy, whatever it might be. So think about when and where you might get distracted. What meetings are hard for you to stay focused in. If you’re a student, what classes are the hardest. Being more intentional about where and how you’re using it. If you want to tell people or not is completely up to you, I think for children, you do have to have those conversations with teachers and help them understand why this is important and giving them that education, right? Kind of goes back to what we were talking about before. We may think that the teacher knows and understands but they may not. So we need to educate them about what’s what’s working for our children.

Nikki Kinzer: If you’re an adult, and you’re in a meeting… again, I think it’s up to you whether or not you want to say something, why you have this rock in your hand? But I don’t think you have to either. It really just depends I think on the situation.

Pete Wright: We did get some product recommendation.

Nikki Kinzer: We did.

Pete Wright: Products.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes.

Pete Wright: We did.

Nikki Kinzer: And I think having options is good, right? Because if you get bored with something you can try something different.

Pete Wright: The Bic Atlantis pen. You ever heard of this Bic Atlantis pen?

Nikki Kinzer: I haven’t, no.

Pete Wright: I’m not an Atlantis pen user. I’m a G2, a pilot G2 user, which is the gel refillable, but it has a kind of allowed click. So apparently the Atlantis pen is one that you can use and flip it around and do the flippy Dippy thing with a quieter click.

Nikki Kinzer: Very quiet apparently.

Pete Wright: It’s very streamlined.

Nikki Kinzer: Yes.

Pete Wright: Very quiet flip.

Nikki Kinzer: Smooth rock.

Pete Wright: You mentioned smooth rock was on the list. Doodling is definitely on the list. And I really love the doodling and I love… And this just came up again. I found an incredible video from a student, is a medical student. In how he uses his iPad to do visual note taking. And I was just watching it with my daughter last week. And then Ellie in the chat room brings up a visual note taking and sketch noting and I’ve been a big fan of Mike Road forever. The whole idea of taking your ideas and making them visual notes with big block print or drawings to help illustrate concepts rather than the traditional outline. We’ve talked about this in our note-taking before. But I think we need to do more of in depth dive into what these tools allow you to do and to teach yourself to draw. A simple set of shapes that allow you to doodle more effectively more satisfyingly because doodling is a massive benefit for me and I know a lot of people in the community too. That’s one.

Pete Wright: I don’t know what a Pick Apart Cork is, what’s Pick Apart Cork?

Nikki Kinzer: Well, this was actually an idea that came from one of my clients because she was picking at her fingernails all the time. So there is actually a word for it. And I don’t even want to say it because I will just ruin the word because I don’t pronounce things very well. But do you know what I’m talking about? It’s like trick a-

Pete Wright: Trichotillomania. Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer: There you go. That’s what it’s called.

Pete Wright: Yep.

Nikki Kinzer: Picking apart a cork if you can actually go online and find a pick apart a cork fidget toy. And it just allows you to pick up the cork. So instead of picking at your nails, or your hands or whatever, you’re picking up the cork is pretty clever, really. Now the only thing is, is you’re going to have to clean up your mess. So if you’re at a meeting or something like that, you’re going to have to like scoop it up. But it solves that or it takes care of that feeling or whatever emotion that you’re going for or that you’re getting from picking your skin actually to the cork so you’re not hurting yourself. It’s a really interesting thing.

Pete Wright: I am looking at therapy shop right now for $2.49 you can get four brand new, one and a half inch bottle stopper corks that you can dig your fingernails into and pick apart.

Nikki Kinzer: Pick, pick, pick.

Pete Wright: We talked about trichotillomania which is the hair pulling… Dermatillomania is skin picking if you have a skin issue.

Nikki Kinzer: Okay, thank you.

Pete Wright: This is a great solution for that but also with ADHD for just having something for your fingers to do. Might make a mess.

Nikki Kinzer: Absolutely.

Pete Wright: It will make a mess but it is something that you can struggle with.

Nikki Kinzer: You can do.

Pete Wright: If you struggle with, this is a great alternative. Picking anything gets a little bit gross, but I definitely relate to that. And I’m a huge sticker person. I put stickers all over everything. My laptop is covered in stickers and I do all that mostly because I’m planning one day to pick them off and replace them. I really get a weird sense of creepy joy out of that, I go through phases.

Nikki Kinzer: Oh, that’s funny. To pick apart cork may be-

Pete Wright: None of us are immune.

Nikki Kinzer: … perfect for you.

Pete Wright: Right, right. That’s right. There you go. This is fun.

Nikki Kinzer: Well and I just want to say there’s a couple other things here, Happy Hands is a great website. This was also recommended from somebody in Discord therapy shop, will have those websites on the show notes. And this particular person, like this spiky magnetic balls was her favorite. So there’s lots of stuff out there and I would definitely take a look and see what interests you and visit away.

Pete Wright: I really like this. The spiky magnetic balls and the doodling, and the smooth rock, I love silent fidgets. That’s huge because, my goodness, in our house noise signal is real a trigger.

Nikki Kinzer: That’s right.

Pete Wright: It’ll just puncture our home productivity. This is great, great stuff. Thank you everybody for contributing to all these great ideas and links and fun stuff and hard stuff.

Nikki Kinzer: Thank you.

Pete Wright: But mostly just thank you for being a member of this wonderful community. We would not, could not do it without you all.

Nikki Kinzer: So true. I hope everybody has a good end of the year. And that you have clear vision for 2020.

Pete Wright: For 2020.

Nikki Kinzer: I’m finally going to say that every day every day next year.

Pete Wright: Every single solitary day.

Nikki Kinzer: I won’t, I promise. It’s been great. Thank you everyone.

Pete Wright: We’re all see it coming clearly.

Nikki Kinzer: I know, right? Yeah. You’ll see it coming, 2020 vision. Yeah, you got it.

Pete Wright: It will be… yes. I can’t wait. 2020 is going to be a great year.

Nikki Kinzer: It is, thanks for that.

Pete Wright: Thank you everybody for your time and your attention. We deeply appreciate you on behalf of Nikki Kinzer and myself. I’m Pete Wright. We’ll catch you next year, right here on Taking Control, the ADHD podcast.

Through Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast, Nikki Kinzer and Pete Wright strive to help listeners with support, life management strategies, and time and technology tips, dedicated to anyone looking to take control of their lives in the face ADHD.