Ryan Dalton:
Well, folks, there you have it. A day in the life of a superhero. It’s a very long day. The tights are uncomfortable. A lot of working of villain motifs. Crime as a bossa nova beat. Leap before you look. Remembered denouement, other French words — inconvenient, unessential. Oh, I could go on and on. But time is wasted, and evil’s out there making handcrafted mischief for the swap meet of villainy. And you can’t strike a good deal with evil, no matter how much you haggle. We don’t need to look for a bargain. Goodness is cheap because it’s free, and free is as cheap as it gets.
All that is to say, welcome to Craft and Chaos. Some episodes you get the craft, others you get the chaos, others you walk away saying, oh, well, okay. But it’s not just me keeping you on your toes. No, we have a veritable squad of creative myths and misanthropes. Fellow chaoticians, introduce yourselves.
Pete Wright:
I’m Pete Wright, and I am a fellow misanthrope.
Ryan Dalton:
I miss that drug.
Kyle Olson:
I am now, but may never be again, Kyle.
Pete Wright:
At some point we need to circle back to your name change discussion from last year.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. I don’t have to weigh in on that. But wait, I only see three squares on our little screen. Where is the fourth?
Ryan Dalton:
Yes, Mandy is on the run from the law, and so she cannot join us. I think while she’s on the run, she’s also shooting a commercial. She’s multi-talented.
Kyle Olson:
In her defense, she is trying to clear her name from being framed by an evil organization. So we take the time we can get, but that’s really her focus right now.
Pete Wright:
Also, later we’re each gonna take a turn doing the best Mandy, so we’ll figure out who could have been the right stand-in.
Ryan Dalton:
That won’t get us in trouble at all.
Pete Wright:
Stay tuned.
Kyle Olson:
I don’t see any potential landmines in that world. And I already have the best one in my pocket anyway, so — all your ones are down.
Pete Wright:
Oh no, you’ve been practicing.
Ryan Dalton:
Nice. Okay. Well, now for this week’s theme.
Kyle Olson:
Ooh.
Ryan Dalton:
Now, if there are any fellow —
Kyle Olson:
Are you going to sing?
Ryan Dalton:
Not theme song.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, got it.
Ryan Dalton:
Sorry, I built up to the wrong thing there. Well, if there are any fellow aging nerds out there, you may have recognized our intro as coming from the original 90s cartoon The Tick. A show that still makes me laugh and that I’m still happy to watch every time. Still brings me a lot of joy.
The world and most systems we engage with online want us to be outraged 24/7. So in this episode, we will purposely steer away from the outrage and toward pure, unreserved joy. And so we’ll start with something that for most artistic types out there is often directly tied to that feeling of joy. I’d like to hear about something you accomplished since our last episode that was creatively satisfying. Doesn’t matter how big or small, doesn’t matter how important it is or how fleeting it will be. Just want you to share something with us that hit that joy button for you. Kyle, you want to kick us off?
Kyle Olson:
I say Pete is chomping at the bit, so I’m happy to go for him.
Pete Wright:
No — yes, do it.
Kyle Olson:
Do it. It’s okay. I can be patient.
Pete Wright:
[laughter]
Kyle Olson:
So for longtime listeners, you will know that I had a problem with unintentional anonymity on the internet. I realized that on New Play Exchange I didn’t have any contact information, and so even if someone wanted to do something I had written, they couldn’t find me. I had changed it to my Instagram, but then I sort of realized I needed to move an old project back into heavy rotation.
I have a website. It’s just I haven’t publicized it because I haven’t really done much on it. But now I’ve started to do more work on it. And my budget is nothing, so I’m required to hire the worst person for the job, which is me. But in the process, I went through and actually created a page on my website specifically about plays, and I linked that back to New Play Exchange. So if you want to know more, you can go there. My website is called WadeIntoTheWeird.com, and the new page I put up is /plays.
I have now put up a list of all the plays. I have the published one, which will take you to a link at Geidelman and Good — shout out to them, who just had their two-year anniversary — and all the rest of the ones I’ve written. I have written more than that, but these are the ones I’m willing to say are out there and available. The others are still in the workshop, not ready to be shown yet. So is it a beautiful web page? No, but it exists. And that for me was a victory of like, yes, I finally have a thing I can go and point to. And from here I can make it prettier, because better a rough draft than no draft at all.
Ryan Dalton:
Absolutely. You can’t edit a blank page.
Kyle Olson:
That’s right. I felt very good about that. I did that, I accomplished it, and I was like, that was years coming, and I finally have that as something to start with.
Ryan Dalton:
Nice.
Pete Wright:
I think it’s great that you still have the portrait from Toca Hair Salon 3 that your daughter put up there.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. Created by my daughter.
Pete Wright:
That is uncanny.
Kyle Olson:
That’s what I said too. I was like, she nailed it.
Pete Wright:
It has maybe a little more Pennsylvania Dutch than you would intend in real life, but it’s otherwise right there.
Kyle Olson:
Well, I have to have some anonymity when I’m out in the world.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, for sure.
Ryan Dalton:
Pete, it’s your turn.
Pete Wright:
Okay, is it my turn? You guys, I’m so excited. Because I have something that I created in the last week. It’s actually taken me months and months and months, but I finished it in the last week. It is so wildly unrelated to everything that I do every single day. And I finished it and I think it is beautiful, and it is my most special thing that I’ve ever created in the world. I just want to touch it and hold it. And you’re not going to believe that a guy like me is capable of a thing like this. I’m gonna show it to the camera — please tell me what you see.
Kyle Olson:
Oh.
Ryan Dalton:
Oh — did you make that?
Pete Wright:
Ryan, did you hear what I just said? I’m so proud of this.
Ryan Dalton:
I know, I know. I’m just teasing.
Pete Wright:
You are killing me here, man.
Kyle Olson:
From the resolution of the camera, it’s hard to tell if that is woodworking or if that is clay — but you made a bowl?
Ryan Dalton:
I think it’s pottery.
Pete Wright:
It’s a bowl, and I made it. It’s wood. It is a camphor burl. And I made it on a lathe, you guys. A real life lathe.
Thanks to my neighbor and woodworking artisan Doug Robeson. I made the casual mistake of saying to Doug, man, I spend a lot of time watching woodworking lathe videos — like slow-motion lathe videos on YouTube — to chill my brain. And he said, you know, I have a lathe and I have some extra wood. Do you want me to teach you how to do it for real? And I said yes. And we just carved away time out of every other weekend. Sometimes we took month-long breaks, but we would always come back. This weekend I went over and we finished it, removed it from the lathe, sanded it real nice, and we both signed it because he’s such an able teacher.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, look at that.
Pete Wright:
I brought it home and I was like to my wife, look, look what I made. I felt like I was in the third grade and just came home from a craft fair. I haven’t felt this exuberant about a crafty thing in a long time — like many decades. I am so proud of this little thing. I’ll touch it to my face one more time.
Kyle Olson:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
I made a bowl, and it triggered something in my brain that I haven’t felt in forever. It turns out maybe I kind of like using my hands for stuff.
Kyle Olson:
You should be very proud. The fact that you made that and you actually have something that — I can tell the listeners there are no holes in that bowl except at the very top to put things in.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, except at the top, there’s only the one.
Ryan Dalton:
Except the one that’s supposed to be in it, yeah.
Kyle Olson:
It can hold things in it. It is functional.
Ryan Dalton:
There is something very powerful about putting work in and then having a physical thing at the end — a physical, visible result that you can see and touch. I’ve talked about that with people before. I mean, I love what I do, but it is ephemeral. And that’s one of the reasons that for authors, getting your first print book in your hand is such a euphoric feeling. There’s something real about having a physical thing that’s proof that you did a thing.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, like when I printed out my scripts — I made books of my scripts, because a script is another ephemeral thing that just lives on and people throw it away at the end of the play. When I printed out the books and could hold them in my hand as a physical thing, it really is a very visceral thing. So I can understand your pride, and it’s well deserved. Where only a dead tree existed before, now you have something that could last beyond. You could put that in your will.
Pete Wright:
Oh my god, I’d never even considered — what do you think the value is of this bowl?
Kyle Olson:
Right?
Ryan Dalton:
Bequeath. You could bequeath it to someone.
Kyle Olson:
That is a one-of-a-kind Pete Wright original.
Pete Wright:
I could bequeath a bowl. A bowl bequeathal. The other thing that it reminds me — and this maybe is becoming more important as I age — is that it is possible. Dare I say probable, in the right circumstances, to learn new things.
Kyle Olson:
Oh dare, dare.
Ryan Dalton:
Wow.
Pete Wright:
I know. I said it on a podcast. This was extraordinarily fun, but I also know where to start now to do the next thing. And I’m reasonably certain that this will be the worst I ever get at this process. I’ll learn new lessons from new stupid mistakes next time. And I’m really excited about that. I hope he lets me in his garage again.
Ryan Dalton:
Well, I will say, especially for a first attempt, that is a nice looking bowl.
Pete Wright:
Thanks, man. Can I just tell you the trick? We were doing it for so long and he needed his lathe back. So what you can’t feel is — it’s very, very heavy. This is a hearty bowl. The edges look very thin, very dainty, but that’s because we pretty much went straight down. In spite of this sexy little curve on the outside, the walls are very thick. So it is a bowl, but it is also a substantial weapon. It still has a bit of a sexy little daintiness right around the top where it counts. It seems ridiculous that we’ve spent like six minutes on my bowl, but I’m very proud of it and I’m very happy to know how to do this stuff.
Kyle Olson:
Well, this show is about the creative process and creating things. And that doesn’t necessarily just have to be a podcast or a script or a book. You put your heart and soul into creating something that is one of a kind.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
That’s art.
Pete Wright:
That is art.
Kyle Olson:
And functional, which is even better.
Ryan Dalton:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
And you can bet your ass I’m going to be writing a detailed scene in my next story involving a character who lathes.
Ryan Dalton:
Yeah. All right. So I’ll share one. I’m currently writing in a genre that I have never written, and I’m really enjoying the challenge and the adventure of it. Only a few days ago, I wrote a type of scene I have never written before.
This book — yeah, we talked about the — I haven’t even mentioned how many horses are in the CNB.
Kyle Olson:
Don’t jump to the happy ending. Come on.
Ryan Dalton:
Come on. This book has a pretty heavy thriller element to it. And so I wrote my very first murder.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, yeah.
Ryan Dalton:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Excellent.
Ryan Dalton:
And that is a particular challenge for me because I don’t like nor do I write blood and gore. And I want this book, like all of my others, to feel accessible to a wide audience. And so the challenge was writing a murder scene that was still scary and visceral without resorting to overly intense imagery. And so it became an exercise in how can I apply less is more to this scene. I’m actually really happy with how it came out. To attempt what is, you know, kind of a classic type scene — a thriller murder mystery type scene — that I’ve never done before, and to feel like, at least for a first pass, that came out really well. That was a very satisfying thing to sit back and be like, oh man, I think I did it.
Kyle Olson:
Well, first of all, congratulations. But without spoiling anything — obviously a murder in a thriller is a pretty important thing. Can you talk a little bit about what your perspective in writing it was? Like, is this from the point of view of the killer? From the victim? Are you watching the scene and telling us what happened?
Ryan Dalton:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Oh yeah, did you Lovely Bones it?
Kyle Olson:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Oh, that was horrifying.
Ryan Dalton:
So most of the deaths in this book — you kind of discover the people afterwards. It’s like the bodies are found in aftermath. You’re not really getting the scene where someone gets killed, except for the first one, which is meant to make the people in the book question whether it was a pure accident or whether there was another party there that did it. There’s a live stream happening, but it actually happens off camera. There’s a whole bunch of elements to it. So that’s the only one where it actually occurs while a camera is live streaming, but it’s not in frame. You have the buildup, you hear some stuff off camera, and then the person who dies kind of stumbles back into frame after whatever happened. It’s clear that something has gone horribly wrong, but there’s enough of a question of whether this was a tragic accident. It’s a bit of — it’s not really just one thing. You know me, I can’t just write one thing.
And then most of the ones following it, up until the climax stuff at the very end, you’re encountering the aftermath. Part of that is a similar challenge — conveying imagery that is again scary and visceral, but not so overblown with blood and gore, because I don’t like that. I don’t like reading it, I don’t write it. So it’s making it feel like an immersive thriller that you’re really gripped by while at the same time not taking it to a level I don’t feel comfortable with. It’s a very unique challenge.
Pete Wright:
That’s awesome.
Kyle Olson:
And so the big question is — did they have it coming?
Ryan Dalton:
It’s an interesting question. Is that guy in particular likable? No. Does he have it coming? Also no.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Ryan Dalton:
So it’s kind of one of those. But anyway, I’m just really glad that for a first pass, I was like, okay, I’m not embarrassed by that. I think that came out pretty good.
Mandy Fabian:
It is the ghost of Mandy. Oh shoot, I was supposed to do a British voice. It’s the ghost of Mandy coming in to participate in this podcast. How dare you go on without me! Sorry. I am grossing myself out with that.
A really cool thing that I got to do this week — I made a big old capitalist dream come true, guys. I don’t know how it happened. It really was like I met someone two years ago who said, hey, we should work together sometime. And then, even though it’s one of the most competitive things on the planet, this lady who I’ve had coffee with several times — who’s a really nice gal — called me up and said, hey, my company’s producing a commercial. Would you like to direct? And of course I said yeah. And she said, can you tell me your quote? And I was like, wait, am I paying you? Yeah, I’m a really good businesswoman.
But no — I directed a commercial. It was very exciting. And on top of that, because I’m clever, they needed a dog in the commercial and I hired my dog. Now, here’s the real moment of truth though. You know, when you say things like, oh, you want the dog to cock her head and kind of perk up her ears because she’s watching a soccer game — we called it football, guys, because I’m in London — you want my dog to do that? Sure, I can make her do that. I’ve never actually done that with my dog before, but I had a hunch based on my years of experience with animals. I had a cat named Pi Waka when I was three. Anyway, I asked the producers to bring a harmonica, set up the shot, crossed my fingers, and when the moment came, I blew into that harmonica, and my dog perked up her ears and cocked her head.
I realize I’ve just given away a secret sauce to a lot of directors out there, and I don’t mind. That was my small victory. There was actually a very big, fun victory this week.
Ryan Dalton:
I think it may be time for our first ad break.
Ads:
The world today demands so much from us. Our attention, our outrage, our time. That’s why today’s episode is brought to you by Brevity.
Kyle Olson:
Oh wow. We’re back. Okay.
Ryan Dalton:
I love it when Universal Concept sponsors the show. It’s the best.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, me too.
Kyle Olson:
They lived up to their hype. That was like 14 seconds.
Ryan Dalton:
Really on brand.
Pete Wright:
I’m working on a deal with Ego for next week, so that’ll be —
Kyle Olson:
Oh, very nice. Those negotiations must be fun.
Pete Wright:
We’ll see if they sign the contract.
Ryan Dalton:
So we’ve had Onwe and now we have Brevity.
Kyle Olson:
Huh.
Ryan Dalton:
Yeah, interesting. Maybe all the human conditions will one day advertise here.
Pete Wright:
I guess.
Kyle Olson:
Oh wow. We are becoming the hotspot.
Ryan Dalton:
Okay, well now, in the spirit of that, we’re gonna jump right into our main event. I want to hear about something you do and/or something you consume that has no purpose other than to bring you joy. It can be even unrelated to art or media — just a thing you do in real life, an experience you like to have, something that’s just about being awesome and satisfying. I would also like to get another example from you guys that is art or media related, something that either you make yourself or something that you consume, and its only purpose is not to achieve something great or hit a lofty artistic goal, but to just hit that joy button.
I’m not talking about guilty pleasures, because really there’s no consideration about whether guilt comes into it or not. Pure joy is just unreserved and unembarrassed and it just loves what it loves. Those things that really just fill the joy tank. Normally I feel like the host would go at the end, but this is an unusual and perhaps a bit of a nebulous topic, so I thought it might serve if I went first as an example of what I mean.
Pete Wright:
Excellent.
Kyle Olson:
I’ll allow it.
Ryan Dalton:
Thank you, Judge. It’s totally up to you guys how you apply this to yourselves and what you share, but I thought at least giving a couple of examples might not be a bad idea.
I’m gonna start with the real-life, non-artistic thing. I don’t know if I’ve talked about this on the podcast. I love fast cars. I love driving cars that bring me joy every time I sit in them — whether I’m going on a road trip or going to the grocery store or anything in between. I love cars where I put the pedal down and I get shoved back in my seat, or I take a sharp curve and I hit an apex just right. And you get that pure exhilaration. There’s always a piece of me that goes back to that feeling of freedom when you bought your first car, kind of hit the road on your own — that pure joy, that feeling of possibility and exhilaration. A little piece of that always comes back.
So that’s the real life thing I love: just a good, fun performance car. It’s completely out of your head. You’re just completely in your body and enjoying the moment. You have to be wholly focused on that. I really am a fan of fast cars.
Kyle Olson:
And yet you live in one of the worst trafficked cities in the entire country.
Ryan Dalton:
I find moments. There are moments here, and roads where — short trips at a time. And I do have occasions where I’m outside the city and can enjoy those too. But anyway — that’s my real life thing.
My media thing: when I was 20, a movie came out, and I went with a friend to see it. This movie bombed horribly at the box office.
Kyle Olson:
I love it already.
Ryan Dalton:
When I saw it on opening weekend, it was me and my friend and maybe three other people in the theater. And to this day, there is no movie that I have laughed harder at on first viewing. Since that day, it has joined the pantheon of my favorite stupid, ridiculous, largely insane movies that I will still quote to this day, and that I still get a pop of joy every time someone else quotes it. I am, of course, referring to Kung Pow: Enter the Fist.
Kyle Olson:
Wow! I might have been one of the other people in that theater because I had this very similar experience watching that movie.
Ryan Dalton:
I feel like I almost passed out a couple of times. I was laughing so hard. There was a point I was out of the chair, down on one knee laughing. I had never seen anything like it. I went in not knowing what to expect. My chest was sore when I left the theater. That pure feeling of like, this is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen and I love it so much and I can’t stop laughing — it was just the greatest. And every time I watch bits of it now, I go back to that moment and I love it just as much. Are you gonna look at it and be like, oh, there’s real artistic merit to that movie? No, it is a dumb piece of fluff that is just pure, hilarious joy, and I love it. Those are my two examples of, yeah — pure joy and love.
Pete Wright:
If there was a list of movies I could have imagined you picking, that movie would not have been on it. I don’t think I’ve seen it. I remember someone talking about it, but it is like vapor in my head.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, you haven’t seen it? Oh wow.
Pete Wright:
I’m gonna have to study up.
Kyle Olson:
I have not watched it in many, many years.
Ryan Dalton:
I will periodically pull up my favorite clips on YouTube.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. It is one of those things where I cannot believe they were able to convince someone to give them money to make it. Like it’s such a labor of love, and it’s so stupid and so badly done, but done with such love. It’s just out there to entertain.
Ryan Dalton:
Pete, do you know the concept? This guy took two or three different kung fu movies — old kung fu movies from the 70s — stitched them together and green-screened himself into the movies and overdubbed every voice himself. And this was in theaters.
Pete Wright:
Okay, that’s a concept.
Kyle Olson:
And this was a major studio release. This wasn’t like a YouTube thing someone did. There was a marketing budget. There were meetings that happened.
Ryan Dalton:
Yeah. And the voices he gives people and the ridiculous things he makes them say. I’ll give you one example of how dumb it is. There’s a point where they’re showing one side character and he’s in black clothes, and then the next time you see him a few seconds later, his clothes are red. And to make that work, the bad guy in between says, “I am a powerful magician. Your clothes are red.” The guy goes, “Wow, that’s some trick.”
Kyle Olson:
There are certain words that come along that you hear someone say and they’re stuck in your head forever. I cannot see the word Neosporin without thinking of Kung Pow: Enter the Fist and the Neosporin song that they sing in that.
Ryan Dalton:
Yeah. It’s probably building it up too much.
Kyle Olson:
Oh yeah. Believe me, this is not us saying this is gonna change your life. You’re gonna watch it and go, really?
Ryan Dalton:
Yeah, it is so dumb, and I love it so much.
Kyle Olson:
So stupid. Beautifully, wonderfully stupid.
Pete Wright:
This is Steve Oedekerk.
Kyle Olson:
Uh-huh.
Ryan Dalton:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Who we know from doing other things that don’t involve stitching together other movies. Like he’s a prolific contributor to Hollywood and great movies.
Ryan Dalton:
Oh yeah, he did the Thumb movies, which are a very similar type of dumb that I love.
Kyle Olson:
Oh yeah, Thumb Wars, yeah.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Ryan Dalton:
If you’ve never seen Thumb Wars, it is hilarious. He’s a talented guy who has put his immense talent into doing these ridiculous things, and I love that.
Pete Wright:
That’s crazy.
Kyle Olson:
There’s a place for silly in the world.
Pete Wright:
I’m down for it.
Ryan Dalton:
So that’s for me. How about you next, Pete?
Pete Wright:
Well, I’m a little bit bummed because I came not knowing what my spark joy segment was going to be, and then right before we started talking I figured it out, and then you stole it. So I’m gonna say it anyway because it’s a little different.
I also love driving. I’ve loved driving from the very beginning.
Ryan Dalton:
Nice to meet you.
Pete Wright:
It’s that spirit of exhilaration and fun. I love all the things you said, endorsed. And then I got an electric car. It’s a speedy electric car. And now it’s like I drive for fun again after years of driving carpools. When you put the pedal down, the torque is immediate and explosive. I have never had fun driving like I’ve had with this car.
And this comes at the right season for me as a car lover, because F1 just started this season again and I am a huge F1 fan. The first race was last week. I had a blast. I just love watching it. It is a complete exercise of massive capitalism — like, let’s just see how much money we can spend for what purpose. It is destructive, hugely consequential environmentally, and yet I am here for it. I love it so much. I could watch it all day.
Now, Ryan, I have found the best website in the world, which I hope you will find just as absolutely entrancing as I have. That website is AutoCatalogArchive.com.
Ryan Dalton:
Ooh, I will type it in now.
Pete Wright:
When you visit AutoCatalogArchive.com, you are met with just a very basic page. It says here are the new arrivals, here are some things you could look at, but mostly you click on the brand index. And you say, what car do I want to look for? For me, let’s say it was the Saab 900 Turbo. So I click on Saab, and I visit the 900 Turbo era in the late 80s, early 90s, and I find the manuals to my first car.
Ryan Dalton:
Wow.
Pete Wright:
It is so great. You get all the specs, everything you could want to find out about the car as it was released. So easy.
Mandy Fabian:
Here are some things that I do. Honestly, it was very hard to think of things that don’t have to do with art and media because I’m a workaholic. Maybe that is the thing that brings me joy — I am obsessed with television and film and podcasts and everything. But there are a lot of things I realize I do because I think my whole job is to have joy. It’s not easy because I’m a moody person. I have a lot of emotions.
But things that bring me joy that make no sense — that are just crazy. Okay, well, this actually does make sense. I do weird things like decide to look up a recipe and make homemade things. I’ve never done this before in my life. This is a new trend. But I’m super into this whole don’t-make-waste-in-the-world-if-you-can-avoid-it thing. And I like to save a dollar. So I get this little thrill out of making my own homemade hummus and homemade granola.
And guess what else I did? There was a really powerful lunar solar eclipse. I don’t actually know which eclipse it was, but it was an eclipse and it was very powerful. It was happening in March — which is the third month — and it was happening at like 11:33 a.m. my time. Anyway, I put water outside in a jar and I turned it into eclipse water because it absorbed the energy of the eclipse. And then what you do is you can cast a spell and get rid of obstacles in your life by writing it down on a piece of paper, soaking it in the eclipse water, and then taking that paper — which has dissolved now — and putting it at a crossroads to give all the obstacles somewhere to go. I’m really embarrassed to even say that, because I’m sure these three guys also did something like that this week. I just feel weird that I’m not original, but that’s one of the things I did.
Pete Wright:
I grew up on the sound of X-Wings and TIE Fighters. And that’s what my car sounds like. I have been dreaming since I was six years old — please, somebody get rid of this obnoxious rumble and make my car sound like a TIE Fighter.
Ryan Dalton:
There you go. Okay, so we got your car thing. Did we hear another thing from you?
Pete Wright:
No, I didn’t do the other thing. Okay. Well, this thing just came out yesterday, and I guess it’s related to media — it’s a book. David Pogue has spent the last two years writing a book about Apple. And it is an audacious effort.
Now I should say to set the table — I am a big Apple fan. I love Apple products. I love the company. It has lots of splinters and there are lots of things to be critical of, but in general I feel like it’s a company that’s worth studying for many, many reasons.
So David wrote this book called Apple: The First 50 Years. On April 1st will be the 50th birthday of the company. And this book is a stunning achievement. First of all, it’s 600 pages. It walks through the beginning to the present. I mean, it feels like he finished writing it last Tuesday, it’s so current. Second, it’s in color. The whole thing is in color, so all of the photos are rich and beautiful. It’s a 608-page book in color, you guys. This is not a cheap experience to read.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
It is incredible.
Kyle Olson:
Or to print.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, to print. I have already learned things. As a student of Apple for the last twenty-five years, I have already learned things I thought I knew and have been totally debunked. It is an incredibly thorough, clearly loving — and yet critical where appropriate — look into this company, and I am here for it. I’ve read a lot of biographies, a lot of corporate manifestos, a lot of these kinds of books, and this one feels different. I think David Pogue is a unique kind of journalist to be positioned to write this kind of book. It’s pretty special. I just love it because of the role that Apple has had on my career. I would not have my career if it were not for Apple products twenty-five years ago. Bar none. I’d be in a different place.
Ryan Dalton:
It’s a beautiful cover too. It looks like it would be at home on a really nice coffee table.
Pete Wright:
It is.
Kyle Olson:
If only we knew someone who was good at woodworking to make a coffee table worthy of that book.
Pete Wright:
It would certainly —
Ryan Dalton:
Yeah, your next thing is to make a table to put that book on.
Pete Wright:
I actually made a bowl. Have I mentioned the bowl? I put the book on the bowl.
Kyle Olson:
Oh, you put the book on the bowl.
Pete Wright:
Does that count? I put the book on the bowl.
Ryan Dalton:
But you made that.
Kyle Olson:
I thought this was the start of a Dr. Seuss book. He put the bowl. Then he put the book on the bowl.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I love it. I’m reading it with the enthusiasm of a golden retriever that just heard the word “walk.” I am really devouring this thing.
Ryan Dalton:
Nice.
Kyle Olson:
I had a similar experience when I read the MCU book that came out — the warts-and-all look at it. I was like, yeah, I feel like I know the story.
Pete Wright:
Yep.
Kyle Olson:
And then you read it and go, oh, there’s a lot I didn’t know.
Ryan Dalton:
Side note — just a little tech nerd moment. I feel like the MacBook Neo is about to drop a bomb on the affordable laptop market.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, yep, yep.
Kyle Olson:
100%. In being in higher education and having people purchase laptops, I can tell you I’m going to be recommending that to everyone.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Ryan Dalton:
I’ve had plenty of writers over the years who are like, hey, can you recommend something? I have a budget of under a thousand dollars. And I would really want to say the MacBook Air, but unless you got them used or refurbished or something, they were always just over that. But now, if there’s a writer looking just for a machine that’s good for making their stuff, man, this is for you.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. I had a budding playwright — she’s a newbie — come in and say, oh, what do I do, what do I use? I sort of did some generic stuff and she was like, oh, I have a Mac. I’m like, oh, thank goodness. Now we can have a whole different conversation. That might be a topic for further down the line.
But yeah, I’m very excited to see where that is because it puts a really stable operating system and a lot of new cool programs into people’s hands for a lot cheaper.
Ryan Dalton:
Absolutely.
Kyle Olson:
All for the good.
Ryan Dalton:
And they can print those chips like candy, so they can make those all day.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah.
Ryan Dalton:
Anyway, moving on. Pete, does that wrap up your joy button things you want to share?
Pete Wright:
I think that satisfies my joy button.
Kyle Olson:
Boy — bowl full of joy.
Ryan Dalton:
So we move on to Kyle now.
Kyle Olson:
All right. March is always an interesting time — that’s when we’re recording this. You might be listening in the far future or the past. If so, tell us how things turn out.
This time always is a theater season in the family, because this is when all the shows for the high schools and elementary schools seem to happen at the same time. My nephew was in theater, my daughter and my niece are both seniors so this will be the last time, and then my youngest is now getting into theater. All of them are always happening at the same time. In the course of a week it’s the opening night and closing night of one person’s show, then the next, then the next — all stacked on top of each other.
As I’m recording this, in a couple of days it’ll be Into the Woods at my niece’s school. They have a very well-supported theater program. I know that at the end of it, people actually put money into it, as opposed to we’re gonna hang up some sheets in the gym and do that.
But what I love about this is — this is the ultimate in starting out in theater. This is the base level amateurs. There are people on there who you see them and go, that person has the “it.” They have star power. They have the thing. Like they’re gonna go places. And you see people who will never be on stage again. And sometimes, for the good, but other times it’s like, this is it. But this is like the great democratization of theater. My daughter went and learned how to be a Winkie in Wizard of Oz for however many months, and then got her first line on stage this time. That’s Proud Papa stuff. But more what I’m going for is that it is this beautiful thing of pure theater. You can literally see the paint on the walls, like that’s somebody’s jacket that they borrowed for that. But you’re still in Oz. You still have that feeling of you’re going there. And for Zoe, she’s the stage manager and it was Newsies, so it’s a bunch of people seizing the day, striking back against the corporate overlords and sticking it to Pulitzer.
It is such a fun experience. And I’ve learned — as we’re talking about Kung Pow — there are weird things that make you laugh. I found that there’s nothing that makes me laugh harder in those situations than a line delivered absolutely flat. It absolutely destroys me. I’m the only one in the theater laughing, but I can’t help it. I’m a big laugher.
One of the performers had their one line, and they went, “You can’t go in there.” And the other character goes, “No, we need to see the wizard.” And they went, “Oh, in that case, go ahead.” And it was just — I mean, it was beautiful. Absolutely perfect. No tone, no inflection. I’m not calling them out — they’re not trying to be funny — but whatever that is, God, I wish I could write that. Just absolutely flat. And it was hilarious to me. Yeah, there’s watching people deliver a line from the 1930s and find a new way to put a spin on it, which is great. But that pure amateur energy — oh, there’s nothing like it.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that’s perfect.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, so that’s been fun.
Ryan Dalton:
Nice.
Pete Wright:
I’m out of the high school circuit now. The kids have aged out. Just hearing you talk about it, I really regret it, because I remember those kids who are going places. And I just wonder — where did they go? I would like to follow them, but not in a weird way.
Kyle Olson:
I’ve had that experience even with 20,000 Leagues. Our lead actor ended up going to New York and went to Tisch. From day one, when she was seventeen and did her audition, I was like, oh boy. Like, wow. You’re at this level at seventeen? I cannot wait to see where you go from here. But yeah, even in one of the shows today, there was a whole line of kids working so hard, singing and dancing, and then one person came out and it was like the audience just went — whoa. Who’s that? And it’s that indefinable thing. For whatever reason, some people have that star power.
Ryan Dalton:
You can’t teach it. It’s there or not.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
Exactly. My son — I think he’s already a junior — and we went to see their performance of Matilda at the high school.
Pete Wright:
Oh yeah, great show.
Kyle Olson:
And the young woman who came out and played Matilda was one of those people that by the end of the show you realize — oh, I liked her better than the movie Matilda.
Pete Wright:
Like the new movie.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. She was that good and she was a freshman that year. Just being able to capture that lightning in a bottle and showcase people who are gonna be stars is really special.
Pete Wright:
Yay, arts.
Kyle Olson:
Yay for arts. And I’d say that’s what I would say to anybody who’s interested in this stuff. Around you are not only elementary schools — I understand you probably don’t want to go see a version of Matilda done by ten-year-olds.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
I get it. But there are high school shows being done, there are college shows being done — you’re gonna see some stuff you’ve never seen before and you’re gonna see talent on the rise. It really is inspiring to see. I watched a show at a college — Peter and the Starcatcher — and the person who played Blackstache was a woman. Usually that’s traditionally played by a man. And she was so unbelievable. I’ve seen multiple versions. I even saw clips of the Broadway show and I was like, she was better. She just blew the curve for me entirely. And she won an award for it. I hope she’s also having a great career.
So yeah — we could shift into media stuff, even though that was a little bit of overlap. I suffer from recency bias because it’s what’s top of mind right now. And for me it’s One Piece.
One Piece was a show I was sort of vaguely aware of in the culture but never watched the anime. And then the live action came out and absolutely blew me away. I was so invested in the entire thing. And then as the second season was coming around, I was like, I wanna watch that again, see if I have the same reaction. And I had the same reaction. I was like, oh, this is like built for me. This is exactly what I want.
And it’s not only that a lot of money was spent on it — kudos to Netflix for actually building the real sets. When they go to the restaurant that is a ship, they built it. It’s two stories tall and everyone is actually there. They built the ship. They actually made real sets. There is something to be said about having a camera flying through a giant room in an action scene and knowing that those are real walls, those are real stairs. You know it’s really happening.
Watching it again, I just got caught up in it again — in Monkey D. Luffy, this kid who just has a dream. It’s a ridiculous dream that could never be achieved, but he’s so pure of heart in “I’m gonna do this” that all these dark, cynical people around him get caught up in his wake. I think I’m like, oh, this is Ted Lasso with kung fu.
Pete Wright:
That’s a great way to describe it.
Kyle Olson:
Luffy is just so like, hey, what’s your dream? Well, we’re gonna help you with that too. And they go, what — this little bendy kid? What are you talking about?
And the assembling of the crew — that’s always one of my favorite tropes, the found family. I went back and thought, was it one of those that you sort of pass by and go, yeah, I enjoyed that? But no, I went back and thought, oh, I think this may be one of my favorite shows of all time. And I’ve been telling it to everybody. Everyone I talk to I’m like, no, you absolutely need to watch it. It is so much better than any other live action anime. Like for all the hype that the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender is getting — which it does not deserve — this show is something else. And I know there’s a heartbreak coming because the anime has like 22 seasons and is still not done. There’s no way Netflix is ever gonna do the whole story. So I’m just trying to enjoy what we have.
The second season has dropped at time of recording and I’m working my way through that, and so far it is already fantastic. Every one of those characters I am invested in. It makes me feel like I felt when Buffy was on.
Ryan Dalton:
Well, I think you’ve convinced me to watch it.
Kyle Olson:
You’ll know by the first episode if it’s for you or not, because it throws down the gauntlet right away: this is a weird world that plays by its own rules. Get on board.
Ryan Dalton:
Yeah, thanks for sharing. I came away with something to watch.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s what I needed right now — just a kid with a dream, fighting their way through it and pulling people together. That’s a story I need to hear.
Pete Wright:
Perfect.
Mandy Fabian:
My daughter practices pop songs and I like to make up fake lyrics to them and sing over the song she’s trying to sing. That’s a really good one. Did I say the thing about leaving voice memos for people? Yep, I do that. I’m learning that if you compliment the hell out of people — remind them how smart and funny and talented and handsome and beautiful they are, because really they are, just take a second look — that’s been pretty great. You gotta lift up the good people so you’re not focusing on all the bad people. That’s a good thing.
Oh, and the new latest joy in my life — aside from God, Ryan Gosling is a movie star. Yeah, I got to see that astronaut movie. I have notes, but not on him. I swear to God. He sat there on that screen and looks at that scientist woman. And I turned to Patrick and I said, you know, we’ve never looked at each other like that. I just looked at him looking at her, and I was like, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a human being look at me that way. Or look at anyone that way. That’s Ryan Gosling.
But no, there’s a guy on Instagram. I think he lives in London, which was a very happy shock to me. Gay as the day is long. Literally a model. I think he models Italian clothing and he is just delightful. I never ever am on Instagram, but if I ever go to Instagram, I swear to God I’m gonna go look at Sam Salter. Because he dances and does these funny little things and he’s just handsome to look at. So yeah, all the handsome has been coming up lately. Handsome like these three co-hosts of mine. Am I right? Yeah, thanks guys for having me. Or I mean, don’t wait up. I’m good. Just keep going on with the show. We’re all good.
Ryan Dalton:
I think that’s a good spot for our next ad.
Ads:
Just wanted to say thanks for giving us your attention. Brevity. Thanks for your time.
Kyle Olson:
That was even shorter.
Ryan Dalton:
Very on brand.
Pete Wright:
It was even shorter.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah.
Ryan Dalton:
They clearly live their own values.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Kyle Olson:
Yeah. So thanks, Brevity.
Ryan Dalton:
Okay. For our final segment, I wanted to share a short story that I love that we are also going to turn into a dramatic reading.
Kyle Olson:
Oh yeah.
Ryan Dalton:
So I need at least one of you, maybe both. Would one or both of you like to volunteer?
Kyle Olson:
Is this for a part or for narration? What are we casting for?
Ryan Dalton:
This is pure dialogue. It is two characters talking.
Pete Wright:
There’s no audition, right? ‘Cause I’m offer only.
Ryan Dalton:
Well, consider this the offer to whoever wants it or not.
Kyle Olson:
Well, in the spirit of Newsies, now is the time to seize the day, so I volunteer as tribute.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Ryan Dalton:
Okay. Pete, no pressure either way. You can either volunteer or sit back and watch.
Pete Wright:
I’ll sit back and watch. I’m gonna take a bye week. I’m excited.
Ryan Dalton:
Okay. So in 1991, a science fiction short story was published, and it was told entirely through dialogue between two characters. There’s no setting or description or anything like that. It’s just two people talking. People still talk about it to this day. I just always get a lot of joy out of reading and thinking about it. The story is called “They’re Made Out of Meat.”
They’re made out of meat.
Kyle Olson:
Meat?
Ryan Dalton:
They’re made out of meat. There’s no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They’re completely meat.
Kyle Olson:
That’s impossible. What about the radio signals, the messages to the stars?
Ryan Dalton:
They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don’t come from them. The signals come from machines.
Kyle Olson:
So who made the machines? That’s who we want to contact.
Ryan Dalton:
They made the machines. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.
Kyle Olson:
That’s ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You’re asking me to believe in sentient meat?
Ryan Dalton:
I’m not asking you. I’m telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector, and they’re made out of meat.
Kyle Olson:
Maybe they’re like the Orpali, you know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.
Ryan Dalton:
Nope. They are born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their lifespans, which didn’t take long. Do you have any idea what’s the lifespan of meat?
Kyle Olson:
Spare me. Okay, maybe they’re only part meat. You know, like the Weddley — a meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.
Ryan Dalton:
Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddley, but I told you we probed them. They’re meat all the way through.
Kyle Olson:
No brain?
Ryan Dalton:
Oh, there’s a brain, all right. It’s just that the brain is made out of meat. That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.
Kyle Olson:
So what does the thinking?
Ryan Dalton:
You’re not understanding, are you? You’re refusing to deal with what I’m telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat.
Kyle Olson:
Thinking meat. You’re asking me to believe in thinking meat.
Ryan Dalton:
Yes, thinking meat. Conscious meat. Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal. Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?
Kyle Olson:
Oh my god. You’re serious then. They’re made out of meat.
Ryan Dalton:
Thank you. Finally. Yes, they are indeed made out of meat, and they’ve been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.
Kyle Olson:
Oh my god, so what does this meat have in mind?
Ryan Dalton:
First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual.
Kyle Olson:
We’re supposed to talk to meat?
Ryan Dalton:
That’s the idea. That’s the message they’re sending out by radio. Hello, anyone out there? Anyone home? That sort of thing.
Kyle Olson:
They actually do talk then. They use words, ideas, concepts.
Ryan Dalton:
Oh yes, except they do it with meat.
Kyle Olson:
I thought you just told me they used radio.
Ryan Dalton:
Oh they do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.
Kyle Olson:
Oh my god. Singing meat? This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?
Ryan Dalton:
Officially or unofficially?
Kyle Olson:
Both.
Ryan Dalton:
Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the universe without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing.
Kyle Olson:
I was hoping you would say that.
Ryan Dalton:
I mean, it seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?
Kyle Olson:
I agree 100%. What’s there to say? Hello, meat, how’s it going? But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?
Ryan Dalton:
Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can’t live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C-space, which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact.
Kyle Olson:
So we just pretend there’s no one home in the universe.
Ryan Dalton:
That’s it.
Kyle Olson:
Cruel. But you said it yourself — who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed — you’re sure they won’t remember?
Ryan Dalton:
They’ll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we’re just a dream to them.
Kyle Olson:
A dream to meat. How strangely appropriate that we should be meat’s dream.
Ryan Dalton:
And we mark the entire sector unoccupied.
Kyle Olson:
Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?
Ryan Dalton:
Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in the G-445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.
Kyle Olson:
They always come around.
Ryan Dalton:
And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone.
Pete Wright:
That was outstanding. God, it makes humanity so gross.
Ryan Dalton:
I love it for the point of view.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Kyle Olson:
Flapping meat.
Ryan Dalton:
I love it for how ridiculous it is, even though it’s only describing true things about us. It builds a world and tells you so much while showing you nothing. From a craft perspective and also just for a pure joy perspective, I love that story.
Pete Wright:
Also, they made an alien assessment of our biology. It’s like a Who’s on First riff.
Ryan Dalton:
Essentially, yeah.
Kyle Olson:
You want us to meet meat?
Pete Wright:
Outstanding.
Kyle Olson:
That’s really good.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, really good.
Ryan Dalton:
So yeah, I wanted to share that with you guys.
Pete Wright:
Thank you.
Kyle Olson:
That was fun.
Ryan Dalton:
What’s the name?
Kyle Olson:
And credit — who wrote it?
Pete Wright:
Terry Bisson.
Ryan Dalton:
Terry Bisson, thank you. And it’s one of those that every once in a while it’s gonna pop up or someone will bring it up, and now when you hear the reference, you’ll know what they’re talking about.
Kyle Olson:
Mm-hmm.
Pete Wright:
Oh, and when I use the reference, you’ll know what I’m talking about.
Ryan Dalton:
They’re made out of meat.
Pete Wright:
I’d like to meet meat.
Kyle Olson:
I bet Douglas Adams read that too.
Pete Wright:
They flap their meat? Oh god.
Ryan Dalton:
Okay, well, that’s gonna do it for this week. Thank you everybody for listening in with us, and we’re gonna leave you with this. Wherever villainy rears its great big head, wherever evil sets its ill-smelling foot, you will find Craft and Chaos. May evil beware, and may good dress warmly and eat plenty of fresh vegetables.
Kyle Olson:
Spoon.
Ryan Dalton:
Nice.
Mandy Fabian:
That’s a wrap on Craft and Chaos. What a great show. I mean — not, right? Like it couldn’t have been as great a show. I’ll be back next time.
