Mandy Kaplan:
Hello everybody and welcome to Make Me a Nerd. I’m Mandy Kaplan, a mainstream mom, whose mission it is to explore all things nerd culture that I’ve been missing out on and afraid of my whole life. And that includes things like B movies. And I don’t even know if that’s an insulting term. I am about to find out. But I made new friends, everybody. They’re nerds about movies. They are the Movie Friends. They are Michelle Rubinstein and Seth Vargas, who are the hosts of the podcast Movie Friends. Michelle has been podcasting for years through her Total Betty Podcast Network, focused on teen drama television. Seth is a lifelong film lover and writer. Through their longtime friendship and love of communication, Movie Friends was created to make a friendly alternative in the film discussion space. And I can testify as a guest on the Movie Friends podcast. It is very friendly and lovely. Please welcome the Movie Friends, Michelle and Seth. Yay!
Michelle Rubinstein:
Hello, hi Mandy.
Mandy Kaplan:
Hi!
Seth Vargas:
Hello, hello again, Mandy. Hello, Pete. Hello, everyone.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes, Pete’s real, you guys.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes, hi Pete.
Mandy Kaplan:
He’s real and as many times as I’ve referenced him in the podcast, people still say that’s just a bit you’re doing.
Seth Vargas:
And then we’re going to have to do that.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right? Like you made up this character, Pete. And no, he’s very real and very handsome and wonderful.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Well I appreciated Pete during your Twilight episode because you’re just like, cue an image, Pete, of Edward and then I saw the image and I was like, go Pete.
Mandy Kaplan:
Go Pete. He’s very real.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Thank you, Pete.
Mandy Kaplan:
He’s the best. And you guys are the best.
Seth Vargas:
Oh, can people see us while we do this?
Mandy Kaplan:
Potentially. I put little clips on Instagram.
Seth Vargas:
Okay. Oh okay.
Mandy Kaplan:
So you might. Did you want to go change your outfit or something?
Seth Vargas:
I’m glad I put — no, I put pants on, so I’m glad I did.
Mandy Kaplan:
It is in my welcome email that you might be on camera on Instagram and I also say pants are optional.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
So that’s on you, Seth.
Seth Vargas:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
Guys, we’re here to talk about Ed Wood, but first let’s talk about your podcast, Movie Friends, and me. I had the honor of being on it to talk about The Bride.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes, I don’t know.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah, it is an honor to be on our show, I think. It’s a very exclusive club. We’ve bandied about the idea of changing it from Movie Friends to Movie Elites.
Michelle Rubinstein:
That’s correct.
Seth Vargas:
So now that we have you on our roster, we might need to move in that direction. Important Movie People, I think, would be a better description.
Michelle Rubinstein:
VIP only.
Mandy Kaplan:
Got it.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah, VIP.
Mandy Kaplan:
I feel like I just got asked to sit at the popular table and I like it.
Seth Vargas:
Well, unfortunately I hate to break your 50-year bubble, but we are probably not the popular table.
Mandy Kaplan:
I’ve been trying for 50 years.
Seth Vargas:
We’re the weirdo table. And I think a lot of what we enjoy about film is expressed through the work of Ed Wood.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Definitely.
Mandy Kaplan:
Very good transition, Seth. Yeah, I had only heard of Ed Wood and I knew that Tim Burton made a movie about him. And I’ve heard the phrase Plan 9 from Outer Space and I knew what this was, but when you guys suggested it, I got so excited because I’ve never seen a frame of this stuff.
Seth Vargas:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
So talk to me about your history with it.
Seth Vargas:
Yep. Okay, all right. Well, first to answer your first question, a B film is not an insult. When films were played as a double feature, this would be the B film, kind of like the B side of a record, right? So it’s just the movie that plays next. It’s maybe not the one that everyone came for. But if you’re having a good time, or if you’re at the drive-in and you haven’t had a good time yet, perhaps you would stay for the B feature, which would be something of less —
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.
Seth Vargas:
Quality, perhaps.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s like those parties where you’re supposed to bring a lesser friend to pawn off on your friend’s friend. Do I have that right?
Michelle Rubinstein:
Oh.
Mandy Kaplan:
What?
Seth Vargas:
I don’t know about these parties.
Mandy Kaplan:
No. What?
Seth Vargas:
Well, although maybe we have been invited to them and we’re the ones who’ve been pawned.
Mandy Kaplan:
No.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Maybe we’re the pawns. Seth said maybe we are the pawns.
Mandy Kaplan:
Hey. It’s a concept I’m working on. It’s not perfect yet.
Seth Vargas:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
So thank you.
Seth Vargas:
But —
Mandy Kaplan:
I didn’t know that about B movie. I always thought it was like it’s not an A plus, it’s a B.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah, and so I think that’s the sentiment that has been adapted by culture. Because then you’ll hear Ed Wood movies referred to as Z-grade films, right? So it’s not even a B monster movie. It’s like, wow, this is another step in the other direction.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.
Seth Vargas:
But as far as our history with Ed Wood, Michelle, you want to walk people through our Ed Wood journey?
Michelle Rubinstein:
Well, I could speak for myself, but as a Movie Friends entity, introduced to Ed Wood when we covered Tim Burton’s Ed Wood last year on our podcast in May of 2025. We were talking about movies about movies. And so Seth brought the idea of covering Ed Wood and it just opened up a whole world of curiosity for me, of learning about this person and then the people he surrounded himself with. But Seth, he knew about Ed Wood since you were a teenager.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah, I used to work in a magic store and nowadays —
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, nerd alert.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah, nowadays I have to clarify that it is not Magic: The Gathering. This is actual sleight of hand magic stage shows and my manager there, he was a massive film fan. He had thousands of VHS and DVD, his entire apartment basically was —
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.
Seth Vargas:
Film. And he and I got along and he turned me on to a lot of underground filmmaking, Troma, Ed Wood’s stuff like that. And it really blew my mind. And I’ve always gravitated — I’m the opposite of you, Mandy. You say that you’ve avoided, perhaps out of fear, a lot of nerd or underground culture. That is the only thing that I look for in this life. For example, I didn’t watch The Godfather until a couple of years ago because I was like, oh, if people say it’s the greatest —
Mandy Kaplan:
And I’ve never seen it.
Seth Vargas:
Why would I? Whoa, you got it.
Mandy Kaplan:
I know. What’s wrong with me?
Seth Vargas:
Michelle just watched it for the first time when we covered it too.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.
Michelle Rubinstein:
I did, yeah.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, I think there’s also a part of that where there’s a badge of honor when you’re like, I’ve never seen it. Right? Sometimes even the most mainstream things, I’m like, oh, I’ve never seen it. It just makes everybody whip their heads around at a party and go, what’s wrong with you? You’ve never seen The Godfather? And the truth is that’s my fear of violence. I think I would find it so disturbing. But I will watch it. Who wants to come on the podcast and nerdificate me about The Godfather? You are welcome to do so. You can hit me up on Apple Podcasts, give it a five-star review, and volunteer in the comments, and I will have you on the podcast.
I have never seen a frame of this and I got chills right away. I put on Plan 9 from Outer Space first, which —
Michelle Rubinstein:
Oh.
Seth Vargas:
Oh, what a path to take.
Mandy Kaplan:
You guys, was so smart. I’m so smart. Because then when I watched Ed Wood, I knew all the inside humor.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I knew what they were talking about. And I had the visuals. And so I felt really proud of myself for this approach.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Wow, very nice.
Seth Vargas:
That’s great. Yeah.
Michelle Rubinstein:
That’s great. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Now I watched it on Pluto or something or Roku and it’s been colorized, yes?
Seth Vargas:
Yeah, the version that’s on there, yeah.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Badly. Yeah, why do they do that?
Michelle Rubinstein:
And then for the black and white version, when I was trying to look for it to rewatch it — the first time I saw it was in black and white, but this time around, I watched the colorized version.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Michelle Rubinstein:
It’s hard to find the black and white version on streaming services, and then you have to purchase it if you want the black and white version.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, hell no.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Everybody was a ginger, which I thought was hilarious.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Like all the cops take off their hats and they have bright red hair. No reason.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Seth Vargas:
It’s gonna be very hard for me. Mandy said, why did they colorize it? And I immediately wanted to launch into the history of Ted Turner colorizing all of the movies and all that and I was like, I don’t think she’s actually asking. I need to stop.
Mandy Kaplan:
No, this is what nerding out is about. Can I set a timer and you could do a TED talk for one minute about it, Seth?
Seth Vargas:
A Ted Turner talk?
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.
Michelle Rubinstein:
I like it.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh. Do it.
Seth Vargas:
Well —
Mandy Kaplan:
Explain why the hell they would colorize pieces of art.
Seth Vargas:
Right, yeah. So Ted Turner purchases a lot of the rights to films in his meteoric rise as a titan of media. He decides, you know what people want? Color. And so they won’t watch old black and white movies. So we’re gonna colorize movies. That’s why you have colorized versions of It’s a Wonderful Life and other films like that. I don’t think that Plan 9 from Outer Space would have fallen under his purview, but yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I’m sure others were doing it and this was done by a grade Z colorizer.
Seth Vargas:
Right. Yes, probably.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, I got very —
Seth Vargas:
So okay, how did you find it though? You watched it and this is one of your first forays into a B film. Are you like, this is — why are they doing this to me? What’s happening?
Mandy Kaplan:
Not at all. I got chills in the best way because it’s everything you have heard about and seen referenced so many times as a film lover. I’ve seen the bad UFOs. People have referenced this so many times. And here it was in its original form. I was so happy. I loved it. The UFOs were particularly hilarious and made me immediately want to ask the question, which I think was answered when I watched Ed Wood, but I was thinking, did he think this was good at the time?
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes, the intent to be serious was there. There’s a lot of movies that are intended to be silly, and that is what you’re watching, but this was intended to be a serious film.
Mandy Kaplan:
Wow, wow, wow. Because then a lot of choices that were made after that confound me.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Right, so it’s a short production schedule, being resourceful.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Using your friends as actors. But that’s what makes it so charming, right? And it’s just creating the idea of spaceships, idea of a graveyard. The idea, and you’ll just get lost in the idea and you’re along for the ride.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s not true though, Ed Wood. The graveyard felt like a mini golf situation. And when you’re mini golfing and there’s a whale’s mouth, you don’t actually feel like Pinocchio. You just think, oh, there’s a little statue of a whale and I’m trying to hit the ball in the mouth.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Right. Okay.
Mandy Kaplan:
I think it’s hilarious that he thought, if he thought, yes, people will be creeped out by this graveyard. Or they will buy into this idea of outer space.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Right. Like no one will notice. No one will notice that they’re using a shower curtain in the cockpit as the door, right?
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Michelle Rubinstein:
No one will notice. No one’s gonna get caught up in the details. We’re here for the story.
Mandy Kaplan:
And it all starts with a narrator who I later learned — that’s not Bunny. Bunny is the —
Michelle Rubinstein:
The ruler. The ruler, mm-hmm.
Seth Vargas:
Bunny is the leader who’s reading off of his script as they are filming him.
Mandy Kaplan:
The leader of the aliens. Oh my gosh.
Seth Vargas:
Yes, we open with the great Criswell.
Mandy Kaplan:
Who?
Michelle Rubinstein:
Amazing.
Seth Vargas:
Criswell. He is the local celebrity of LA who did predictions, like a psychic.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, okay, so he’s a real — at the time that’s who he was.
Seth Vargas:
Yes. Oh yeah, very much so.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. And he’s doing that old timey narration of the movie.
Seth Vargas:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I just was delighting in the fact that we just don’t get that anymore.
Michelle Rubinstein:
I know.
Seth Vargas:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
We don’t get an old timey narrator. We get a character saying, that was the night I realized I had to kill everyone. But we don’t get — I’m a little sick, so I have those Bea Arthur low notes today that I don’t normally have.
Michelle Rubinstein:
It’s good.
Seth Vargas:
That’s okay.
Mandy Kaplan:
I’ll do a lot more narrating, yeah.
Michelle Rubinstein:
I love it.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Seth Vargas:
We’ll pretend you’re doing a Lisa Marie as Vampira impersonation.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, I mean, it’s hard not to conflate the two because Tim Burton did such a magical, beautiful, perfect job of recreating what we saw on Plan 9 from Outer Space that it’s — and having watched them consecutively in two days, it’s hard not to conflate.
Seth Vargas:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
Because Lisa Marie was transformative as Vampira. Now, here’s a question. If he wanted to save money and create a real creepy, scary environment — they’re in the graveyard and the two gravediggers are like, what’s that? And then they die. And then they replace the actual actors with dummies to prove that they’re on the ground dead. Pete, can you put up that picture? And I’m gonna show it to my friends here because I cackled with delight. Why would this save money to make dummies?
Seth Vargas:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
That is not two actors. So they made dummies. That doesn’t save money.
Seth Vargas:
Well, it’s possible. Now I have not made low budget films.
Mandy Kaplan:
I mean that’s a good thing.
Seth Vargas:
I have been on set as they were being made and occasionally, you’ll have actors or performers for a day or part of a day, and then you might be filming the graveyard scene in a completely different location. And maybe you didn’t want to pay for their bus fare to get there. And so it might actually be cheaper to just stuff some clothing with whatever you have laying around rather than be like, okay, I need you for two days. Now they just need to be there for it because all of the grave stuff is outside while the graveyard is filmed on an actual stage.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh.
Seth Vargas:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Would that explain why when the police arrive it’s day and then they go into the graveyard and it’s night and it’s supposed to be one minute later?
Seth Vargas:
Yep.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.
Seth Vargas:
Yep.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I mean there were — I was laughing out loud.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
At the time did people laugh out loud at these things?
Seth Vargas:
If they saw it at all, I think is the thing. These films did not have a great amount of marketing behind them. And then obviously there’s not a ton of word of mouth. And so it’s really when the films are syndicated on television that they start to have a bigger audience. But to spend your money to go see Plan 9 from Outer Space, I can’t imagine that too many people — Michelle, what was the box office for Plan 9?
Michelle Rubinstein:
It was like eight hundred and twelve dollars.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah, so right.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Supposedly.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh wow.
Seth Vargas:
So I don’t think too many — right.
Mandy Kaplan:
And this was 1957, so today that would be worth twice that.
Seth Vargas:
Right.
Mandy Kaplan:
Wow. I was questioning whether this was ever considered genuinely scary. And Bela Lugosi was genuinely scary as Dracula, and for so many years he was considered maybe schlocky, but an actor, an actor’s actor as Dracula. And then this is where his career ended. Did Ed Wood — I mean, was he supposed to be scary in Plan 9? And then I learned from the movie Ed Wood that it wasn’t even really Bela Lugosi most of the time.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah, so Bela didn’t even know what that stock footage was going into. It was just him and Ed were working on a comeback project called The Vampire’s Tomb. And so when Bela passed, Ed Wood was like, oh well, we’re gonna make this movie and hey, it’s Bela Lugosi’s last movie, and just kind of used the stock footage and got a body double for the old man. And so Bela didn’t really know what it was gonna be used for.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, he didn’t know what was going on around him anyway. He was so heavily far gone at that point to addiction and depression.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And it was very sad where his life ended. But I think I told this story on my Dracula episode, but I would like to retell it now because it’s about Bela Lugosi and my bathroom downstairs growing up. My parents put movie posters all over this little tiny bathroom in our basement. And it was Paul Newman, my mother’s crush, and Charlie’s Angels, my father’s crushes. And then over the toilet was Bela Lugosi and I was afraid to pee down there till I was about forty-five years old.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Oh no.
Mandy Kaplan:
Because he would turn the light on and there he was, over the toilet, waiting and I thought he was gonna come out of the wall and get me.
Michelle Rubinstein:
That’s fantastic. I mean I’m sorry for your fear and scare, but it’s pretty great.
Mandy Kaplan:
Twisted.
Seth Vargas:
So let’s see here, you had him over a toilet, which means that if you were to go, he could see. Is that the joke that your parents were pulling?
Mandy Kaplan:
I think they just — it was twisted.
Michelle Rubinstein:
I don’t think there was a joke.
Seth Vargas:
Michelle — I’m trying to make a pun with his last name.
Michelle Rubinstein:
I’m like, hm.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Right, right.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, Lugosi. Okay.
Seth Vargas:
Get it?
Michelle Rubinstein:
Go see.
Seth Vargas:
Go see. Yeah. The best types of jokes are the ones that you have to immediately explain right after.
Mandy Kaplan:
Pete, if there’s some way to edit that to make it sound like I got the joke and I’m smarter than I am, that would be terrific.
Seth Vargas:
So that’s what I —
Mandy Kaplan:
Thank you.
Seth Vargas:
Pete, if you could put in a sound that’s like wah wah, that would be maybe better.
Michelle Rubinstein:
All right.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh gosh, you guys, the dialogue in Plan 9, I couldn’t stop laughing. “Well he’s been murdered, and somebody’s responsible.” Are you kidding? That’s incredible.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
“It’s a small town, but nevertheless, a town of people.”
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yep. That’s right.
Seth Vargas:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
And then I had what I think is a deep observation and then I think I was proven right when I watched Ed Wood, that I was watching Plan 9 and I thought a lot of this feels like it’s a newsreel, not a movie. Did he use newsreels?
Seth Vargas:
Well, the framing of the movie is that this is a news story being presented to you by a group of people with Criswell as the breaker of the story, right? We come in on him as if it’s a news desk. He’s sitting at his desk. He’s got the lights behind him. We zoom in and he says, this is sworn testimony by eyewitnesses. And then we end with him coming back and being like, look, you can’t prove this didn’t happen. And so that’s the device that’s used to deliver the story. He did not use existing newsreels, but he was using, as is shown in the film, a lot of stock footage.
Mandy Kaplan:
Stock footage. Okay, that’s what I was picking up on.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah. And I think one of the things that I find most inspiring about the real life Ed Wood is that so often as creative people we have limitations. First in our mind, right? We convince ourselves, well, no one wants to see that or I couldn’t do that or someone else has done it better or someone else could do it better.
Mandy Kaplan:
Not me.
Seth Vargas:
And if you can — yeah, not us either. But a lot of times, if you can get past the mental stage, then there are the physical restrictions, which is money and time and help and assistance. And Ed Wood found a way around all of those things at the expense of quality or presupposed quality, I guess is what I’ll say. Because if a film’s point is to connect and entertain, right? You, Mandy, you’re telling us that you laughed out loud, right?
Mandy Kaplan:
I did.
Seth Vargas:
How often do we watch a mainstream large budgeted comedy and it’s funny, but you might watch the whole movie and say, that was funny, but I didn’t necessarily laugh out loud and I didn’t necessarily engage with it. Where Ed Wood’s stuff — you use a great word, which is confound. And if you are a curious person —
Mandy Kaplan:
Thank you, Russ.
Seth Vargas:
Being confounded is not an obstacle. It is an invitation to follow that confoundedness. You’re invited to follow that mystery. Find out what it is. Where some people, they’ll just see it and they’ll shut down. It’s like, what is this? And you turn it off.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Seth Vargas:
Or you can say, what is this?
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Seth Vargas:
And it’s a totally different attitude of the viewer. But Ed Wood’s films, they accomplish everything that they set out to do. They make us laugh, they confound us, we’re interested, we’re sitting up and paying attention, and we’re talking about them.
Mandy Kaplan:
To this day, seventy years later.
Seth Vargas:
Almost seventy-five years later?
Mandy Kaplan:
And I think that would —
Seth Vargas:
Seventy-three?
Mandy Kaplan:
Please him. I’d like to think that. That the just the fact that we’re talking about them, not necessarily praising them as good filmmaking, but just talking about them and enjoying them.
Seth Vargas:
Oh, absolutely. I will say, Michelle and I are not oblivious to what quality is. It’s just that there’s more than just quality. It’s like Men’s Wearhouse. More than just great coats. And that’s what movies are.
Mandy Kaplan:
I love it.
Seth Vargas:
Movies are more than just great experiences. They’re also interesting experiences or sad or depressing or uplifting or whatever. And his movies do that. The worst thing that it could be is boring and it is anything but. You listen to someone say, “Yeah, he was murdered and someone’s responsible.” And you’re like, hmm, interesting.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes.
Seth Vargas:
And your brain lights up. It’s good.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. I have a question after this. Do the characters have names, or is it just dead wife and old man?
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah, it’s old man and the old man’s wife and Inspector Clay.
Mandy Kaplan:
And Inspector Clay.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
But I feel like the characters didn’t have names. The pilot had a name, I guess.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes, yeah.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah. The pilots have names. Eros is the male alien who’s leading the expedition. I can’t remember his partner’s name.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Tanna. Tanna. And the ruler, right?
Seth Vargas:
Tanna. The ruler is just named Ruler. Yeah.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Seth Vargas:
Not Emperor Doogadoo or whatever. It’s just Ruler.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah. You do have Lieutenant Harper, General Roberts, and Colonel Edwards.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, what a name dropper you are.
Michelle Rubinstein:
And Kelton the Cop, played by Paul Marco, of course. Well, you know.
Mandy Kaplan:
To equate it to a mainstream reference, I love the TV show King of Queens, say what you will.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Uh-huh.
Mandy Kaplan:
And the dad Arthur Spooner wrote a screenplay and he’s trying to slip it to his neighbor Lou Ferrigno and Lou Ferrigno goes, “First of all, you named three characters Mike.” I love it. That’s the kind of move that I feel like this is. Just man, man’s wife, dead wife.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s priceless.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
I bet I’m the only person to compare Plan 9 to a Kevin James series.
Seth Vargas:
It’s very possible.
Mandy Kaplan:
I’d like to think so.
Michelle Rubinstein:
It’s great. Oh, not.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I do, Michelle, thank you.
Michelle Rubinstein:
You’re welcome.
Mandy Kaplan:
The music is actually fantastic. Do you guys know anything about the composer and how Ed Wood got such a great score for such a schlocky, nonsensical work?
Michelle Rubinstein:
I don’t really know much about him. I just know his name is Gordon Zahler. Seth, do you know anything about him or how they got together?
Seth Vargas:
No, that’s one area that I’ve never really looked into.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Not yet. We’ll add it to our list.
Seth Vargas:
Not yet.
Mandy Kaplan:
I would really like to know. It’s like, was a friend of his that talented? Or was all the money spent on the score? I mean, how did they get it? It’s good music.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Right. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Am I alone in that thinking?
Michelle Rubinstein:
Not at all. It’s so good.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s good music and it’s bad acting. Why? Particularly the women. They seem like they learned their lines phonetically like ABBA.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Although, okay, wait. Yes, I agree with you, but I thought the flight attendant, Edie — I think she did a good job. Actually, because when I rewatched Plan 9 because we were covering it, it was like watching with even closer eyes, right? I’m really studying the scenes and the actors. And I’m like, okay, who’s really doing a good job? Who do I think is doing a good job? And I think the flight attendant was doing a good job. I really do. Did you take note of her?
Mandy Kaplan:
I’ll allow it.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Thank you.
Mandy Kaplan:
No, I didn’t.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Thank you. Okay.
Mandy Kaplan:
But I mean the wife.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Paula.
Mandy Kaplan:
A guy appears in her room and she’s like, huh. And Vampira — she doesn’t do much.
Michelle Rubinstein:
I love her. Last year when we covered Ed Wood, it sent me on a Vampira deep dive wormhole, and I became obsessed with Maila Nurmi. Obsessed. And so I think she’s absolutely iconic in this. But I’m biased.
Mandy Kaplan:
Michelle, can I ask you to do a one-minute TED talk on Vampira? Because I don’t know anything about her.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Oh, well she was — and rightfully —
Mandy Kaplan:
I know that Elvira, she tried to sue Elvira, I know that, right?
Seth Vargas:
Rightfully so. As an Elvira lover, rightfully so.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah, I mean there’s — that’s very layered too, but essentially she was the first horror movie TV host in the 1950s, and she had a TV show on in LA. It was one season. She was nominated for an Emmy. She has a fascinating life.
Mandy Kaplan:
Look out.
Michelle Rubinstein:
She was friends with James Dean. She hung out with Marlon Brando. She met up with Elvis. She had a thing with Orson Welles. You should — the gossip is so good.
Mandy Kaplan:
And that waist, how did they accomplish that? That’s real, right?
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes. She would fast before her showtime and she would rub papaya, I believe it’s papaya, and it would shrink the fat around the waist. She had a whole concoction for it.
Mandy Kaplan:
I gotta go you guys. I gotta go. I can rub papaya and shrink — yes.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah, go grab some papaya.
Michelle Rubinstein:
She had a whole system. She’s fascinating, Maila Nurmi. Fascinating.
Mandy Kaplan:
Maila Nurmi is her real name.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Very cool, thank you.
Seth Vargas:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, I was just frustrated with how bad the acting was and some of it I didn’t mind, like the cops. It’s like, okay, well they have three lines. But when the guy in a cloak walks into her room and she’s genteel to him, she almost offers him tea.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah. Right.
Mandy Kaplan:
And it’s frustrating.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah. Well what’s confusing about that, right, is then she runs to the cemetery. And we’re already weary of the cemetery.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. And doesn’t call the police.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right? You run into the kitchen and call the police.
Seth Vargas:
Well, let’s not victim blame here. We all haven’t had a Bela Lugosi lookalike come into our bedroom.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Oh, sure, sure.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Seth Vargas:
Maybe that’s what I would — maybe I would just lay there and be like, huh.
Mandy Kaplan:
Anything.
Seth Vargas:
We don’t know. Can I just really quickly highlight something? And this is something that Michelle and I forgot to mention when we talked about Plan 9. When she goes to the graveyard and collapses and a nice man comes up, did anyone notice that he has the largest butt that has ever been filmed?
Mandy Kaplan:
No.
Michelle Rubinstein:
I didn’t notice it, but yes.
Seth Vargas:
Okay, please go back, watch the movie, fast forward to that scene, and you will see quite possibly the largest rear end.
Mandy Kaplan:
Can I get a one-minute TED talk on that? No, I’m just —
Seth Vargas:
Ever filmed, I think.
Mandy Kaplan:
Wow. I did not notice that large butt, which is unlike me because I do like butts. In my episode about Yuri on Ice, are you guys fans of the anime? Not familiar?
Michelle Rubinstein:
No.
Seth Vargas:
No.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s an anime series about ice skating and there were so many close-ups of front crotch, back crotch, male crotch, female crotch, like close-ups. A character talking, and we’re just looking at their privates. Yuri on Ice.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Wow.
Mandy Kaplan:
Check out that episode on my feed, but check out the show too if you like that.
Seth Vargas:
There you go.
Mandy Kaplan:
Maybe one of the reasons I didn’t notice the big butt is that I was noticing another thing. Pete, if you could throw up this picture of a boom just directly in the shot. I circled it for you, right?
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
So the pilot is talking to — who’s that guy? The head of the something.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Is that Colonel Edwards? General Roberts and Colonel Edwards at the Pentagon?
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh. Sure. Maybe. But I was like, I mean the boom is all the way in the shot.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s just hanging out there.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And no take two. He never did a take two.
Seth Vargas:
Now, this I cannot verify directly connected to a source. However, I have heard it said that they did not think that it would be in the shot because they were filming and they thought that it would be projected in a different aspect ratio. So that might not so much be ineptness on the crew. It might be the way that the finished product was printed. But I can’t say that with a hundred percent certainty.
Mandy Kaplan:
I’m gonna need you to get a hundred percent certain on that by the end of the podcast.
Seth Vargas:
Okay. See, I appreciate when we know we’re watching a movie. When Mandy joined us on our show —
Mandy Kaplan:
To talk about The Bride.
Seth Vargas:
For an episode on The Bride, I mentioned how when I go to the theater, I don’t necessarily want to be fully immersed. I enjoy knowing that I’m watching a movie. And so when we see little mistakes like that, it doesn’t bother me because I know that it’s not real. So I don’t know, it just kind of comes through as charming a little bit.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. I mean, we all love to find continuity errors, even in high budget things. We love those moments. I’ll find a boom in a shot in an old episode of Frasier and I delight in it. So it’s just me being a little know-it-all.
Michelle Rubinstein:
I also enjoy that too, so yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right? It’s like a drinking game, but you only get one sip.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Do you think that being in these movies hurt some of these actors’ chances of ever being taken seriously, or were they all just friends of Ed and they didn’t want to further their careers?
Seth Vargas:
It’s tough to say because again, so few people saw this and it was such a different environment than it is now, where if a producer is looking at hiring you and they can see that you’ve been in five films that are on YouTube and Tubi and they can quickly check you out. It just wasn’t the case back then. Probably a lot of these people just went unnoticed, or their credits in Plan 9 went unnoticed for years, really until — Michelle, was it 1980 or ’78?
Mandy Kaplan:
That’s true.
Seth Vargas:
When the Medveds’ book came out?
Michelle Rubinstein:
1980, The Golden Turkey Awards.
Seth Vargas:
Yes. So Mandy, are you familiar with how Plan 9 kind of came into prominence? I shouldn’t say back.
Mandy Kaplan:
Not at all, tell me. Right. Came into, yes.
Seth Vargas:
Came to prominence to begin with. So there are these two guys, known together as the Medved brothers, and they started a book project, the worst movies of all time. From the beginning, the book was kind of a sham because one brother said that he was writing it and then he pawned it off to his 16-year-old brother, I believe he was at the time.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah, and so this book was kind of a sham in terms of they haven’t even seen all the movies that were listed. And so essentially Plan 9 was added to this and was known as the worst film ever made. And Ed Wood was labeled the worst director of all time. And so from that he gets this label, and then that kind of brings Plan 9 and Ed Wood into, or introduces them to, a new generation.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah. Because the first one was a successful book, and so the follow-up — I don’t want to say it was flying off the shelves, but when you make a claim like that, this is the worst film of all time, and it’s printed, people trust when something is printed in a book. Well, there must be something to it. And then it was voted in by the readers of the first book. That also adds credibility to it. And so now it’s a challenge. So if you are a movie lover or someone who’s interested in movies and someone says to you, this is the worst movie of all time, there’s gonna be something in you that says, well now I gotta see this.
Mandy Kaplan:
I gotta see it, of course.
Seth Vargas:
I mean, I have to know if it actually is or not. And for a long time it was kind of accepted that yeah, this movie is actually really bad. And in 1992, the book Nightmare of Ecstasy comes out. Big book on Ed Wood and company. And then 1994 is Tim Burton’s Ed Wood, which he makes after an insane run of films: Pee-wee’s Big Adventure, Batman, Batman Returns, Edward Scissorhands.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. Edward Scissorhands. Yeah.
Seth Vargas:
And I really applaud him for using his cultural cachet at the time to make this story. He didn’t originate it. It was written by two writers. And it was gonna go to another director. I can’t remember who it was. Someone else was interested in it. And Tim Burton stepped in and was like, no, I am making the Ed Wood movie. And it’s beautiful. I mean, I rewatched it today. The photography in Ed Wood is jaw-dropping. Beautiful black and white. When we get to Ed Wood walking around the Hollywood back lot with a plant, I’m just stunned at how good it still looks.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Seth Vargas:
And so now obviously this is bringing Ed Wood awareness to a level that we’ve never had before in the States.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Seth Vargas:
Not a lot of people saw the film. I think it made twelve or fourteen million at the box office.
Mandy Kaplan:
Ed Wood?
Seth Vargas:
Yeah. But Martin Landau wins —
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, wins an Oscar.
Seth Vargas:
Best supporting actor for it.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Seth Vargas:
And so now it goes from, well, if you saw the movie in theaters, you know what Plan 9 is, which no one did. Then it’s if you saw the movie on television in the seventies, you know what it is. Then it’s if you read the book. Now it’s a much larger net that’s being cast. And in the ensuing years, as culture becomes more divided and compartmentalized, and there’s larger fan bases out there that are purposefully seeking out so-called bad movies — which Plan 9 is not a part of, but the tide begins to turn of, well, wait, why is this bad? Why is this? And for all the reasons that I just said to you earlier, it’s not actually bad if you enjoy your time with it.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Seth Vargas:
So we’re to a point now — I watched it yesterday with my five-year-old son. And he loved it. He had a great time.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, good.
Seth Vargas:
And today I watched Ed Wood and he came in about halfway through. And yesterday when we were watching Plan 9, he asked me, who made this movie? Which — I’ve watched tons of movies. He’s never asked me that before. So I said Ed Wood. He has a great memory, right? He comes in today when I’m watching the Tim Burton film Ed Wood. He says, what is this movie? And I said, Ed Wood. And he said, that’s the name of the guy who made the movie we watched yesterday. And I said, yes. We sat down. I pointed out the scenes that he had just seen being recreated. He had all these questions and then Tim Burton’s Ed Wood ends with the here’s-what-happened-to-everybody cards.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-hmm.
Seth Vargas:
And he’s not a great reader, so I have to read it to him. And I gotta tell you, I cried reading through everything that happened to everyone.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, I think that’s a good one.
Seth Vargas:
And the movie ended. We went — he went his way. He went to work — no, I’m just kidding. And I realized, we are now enough generations separate from this claim that Ed Wood is the worst director ever, that we can now show it to people and they might be able to just accept it as it is because it’s not being presented to them as —
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Oh, yeah.
Seth Vargas:
This is the worst movie ever. It’s just, watch this movie and have a fun time.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. And I want to dive into Ed Wood and we’re almost there. I just have a couple more little things I want to say about Plan 9.
Seth Vargas:
You’re the boss.
Mandy Kaplan:
Can we cut that and use that as a drop? So I have a couple more questions right after this. One of my observations is that in this movie and a lot of old movies, they hold their guns so low and close to their bodies. And I couldn’t stop laughing.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s really a visual I wish everyone could see. But that’s an old timey movie thing. Now they hold them like the kill shot and out to the side, right? But I’m doing visuals, which makes no sense on a podcast. But you all know what I mean when you’re listening.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah, it’s funny you say that because I was just so fixated on the gun work in Plan 9. Especially Lieutenant Harper just scratching his face with a — I mean that gun is everywhere that it shouldn’t be.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh gosh, I didn’t pick up on that. And then I think the last thing I felt strongly about — I cracked up at the salute that the aliens do when they cross their arms like they’re in the casket. And that’s all that we know about them to signify that they are not human and they have this other hierarchy and they salute each other that way. But it screamed of Spaceballs to me. And I wonder if you guys know if Mel Brooks has ever said, well, it wasn’t just Star Wars, because I felt like there’s a lot of Plan 9 in Spaceballs.
Seth Vargas:
Interesting. I am not putting that outside the realm of possibility. Absolutely not. I feel like a book called The Golden Turkey Awards would be something that would grab Mel Brooks’ attention.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-hmm.
Seth Vargas:
So yeah, it’s quite possible.
Mandy Kaplan:
Overall, I think it probably had more of an effect than filmmakers would want to admit. If they saw this in the ’70s on their TVs and then they were making movies in the ’90s, they were probably influenced by some of his cheats and tricks and style and all of the things he did to make it come to life. So I thank you for introducing me to Plan 9 from Outer Space because I loved it.
Michelle Rubinstein:
We’ll take it.
Seth Vargas:
Astounding. Listeners, you can’t see, but Michelle’s doing that thing where you put two hands up by your head and shake them, which is for some reason —
Michelle Rubinstein:
It’s my — yeah.
Seth Vargas:
A signifier in our culture of victory and celebration.
Mandy Kaplan:
A victory.
Seth Vargas:
I don’t know what it means, but sure.
Michelle Rubinstein:
I don’t either. I hope it’s something good that I’ve been doing it this whole time.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, but I really — I thought I would like it from a hate-watching standpoint, but I didn’t hate watch.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I was utterly charmed. And then I want to get to Ed Wood, but first I want to tell everybody that Make Me a Nerd is a production of TruStory FM. Engineering by the peerless Pete Wright.
Seth Vargas:
But what’s funny — but I guess I don’t — it’s not fun, eh?
Mandy Kaplan:
My theme music is Wonderstruck by Jane and the Boy. And you can get me on Instagram at Mandy underscore Kaplan underscore Clavens, both with K’s, or on TikTok at Mandy Miscast. Please, please leave a review and please if you’re feeling extra supportive, go to makemeanerd.com/join and hitting that button will get you your episodes ad-free and early and my eternal gratitude.
Now to Ed Wood. This was really a love letter in a way that I wasn’t expecting. And it made Ed and all his companions, except Sarah Jessica Parker, look like loving, excited, passionate people who wanted to make the world a better place. I thought it was going to be almost a — not mocking, but a sardonic look at this schlocky director and how over the top he was.
Seth Vargas:
Right.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah, I think this is a great, like I said earlier, it’s a great entry point into Ed Wood, but also it’s kind of the glass-half-full story of Ed Wood, which is not a bad thing, because this is really a beautiful film. It’s just we’re getting a portion of Ed Wood’s life and not how he ended up, which I know at the end, like Seth said, we get the where-is-everyone-now cards, but there was definitely more to his story.
Seth Vargas:
A lot more. And as a storyteller, you have to pick what story you’re gonna tell. And Burton and company definitely picked what they were going to include and what they weren’t. And what’s fascinating is that they include so many parts of the Ed Wood mythology that aren’t necessarily true or they’re close to true. But it makes for a very compelling story. And like Michelle said, sometimes it’s okay to stretch the truth a little bit to interest people because what we can tell you is if you watch Ed Wood the movie and then you go down the rabbit hole, you will not be disappointed. In fact, you will probably be more delighted than what you found in Ed Wood the film. It is so much more interesting than the movie makes it out to be. And it is unfortunately very tragic how his life ended and the fact that he died a handful of years before he was recognized as a director of note, even if it’s a bad note.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Man.
Seth Vargas:
And so it is sad, but if the point of an artist is for their work to endure, then his work has endured, like we said. We’re still talking about it 75 years later.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Is it whitewashed? Is that what you’re implying? That he was not a good guy or —
Seth Vargas:
No, it’s not necessarily that he wasn’t a good guy. It’s whitewashed in a way that it ends on a very happy and uplifting note when the reality is it wasn’t like that at all. It wasn’t like, oh, we have a great premiere and there’s a bunch of people wearing tuxedos and everyone claps and then we go off to Vegas to get married. Some of those details are there, but he struggled every moment of his life. But he struggled to make art. And the important thing is that he made the art. He didn’t just struggle. He could have just struggled and waited and waited. And he didn’t wait. He did it with bad actors and no budget. And he made it happen.
And even after he stopped making films, he was incredibly prolific in writing. He wrote lots of paperback books, pornographic books. He went on to direct porn later in life.
Mandy Kaplan:
I gotta go, you guys.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah, he never stopped.
Mandy Kaplan:
Papaya and porn. That’s what I learned from you guys.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And thank you.
Seth Vargas:
Yes. He never stopped though, is the point.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. I found him inspiring as an artist myself. All the rejection, he was like, oh well, I’ll try again. I’ll try a different way. I find that very inspiring. And I know that this was the way Burton wanted to tell the story, but I didn’t expect to just love everybody like I did. I don’t know why. I always thought it was just gonna leave a bad taste in my mouth about moviemaking and Hollywood and this wacky guy. Did he use and abuse everyone around him and did his ego get out of control? But that’s not what happened in this movie.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah. There is a question of that with his relationship with Bela. Basically only Bela’s son says that it wasn’t kosher and that Ed Wood was taking advantage of him. No one else corroborates that opinion. For all intents and purposes, it kind of was a relationship that you see on screen where no one was giving him work. It’s not like Ed was convincing him not to take other people’s work. In fact, before his footage was used in Plan 9, he was in another movie with another director.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Appearing in, yeah.
Seth Vargas:
And so just take that with a grain of salt. It’s part of the Hollywood legend that’s hard to differentiate between fact and fiction. But yeah, his landlord didn’t make out investing in Plan 9. We know that for sure.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Seth Vargas:
But was Ed taking money from people and then purposefully squandering it? No, he was trying the best that he could.
Mandy Kaplan:
No, yeah.
Seth Vargas:
And if Plan 9 was a major hit, I think that his landlord would have made the money back the way that he was supposed to.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I did not notice the body double situation in Plan 9. I don’t know why. So when I saw the guy, the Dracula with his cape over his head, I just assumed it was Bela Lugosi. And then to see that it was a chiropractor. And then I did read that that was true. Or maybe it’s the end cards that told me — that is actually true. It was his girlfriend’s chiropractor. That’s incredible. I love that.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I would have loved to have worked with Ed Wood because he only did one take and that’s all I ever want to do. I’m the laziest actor on the planet. But when Vincent D’Onofrio appeared, I’m a huge fan of Vincent D’Onofrio, and he opened his mouth as Orson Welles, and I was like, wait a minute. He’s being dubbed. I can tell that’s not him. So I did Google that and I was right and I wanted to brag about that.
Seth Vargas:
Good job.
Mandy Kaplan:
Thank you.
Seth Vargas:
Very good.
Mandy Kaplan:
Thank you.
Seth Vargas:
That’s why they call you Mandy Dub-Knower Kaplan.
Mandy Kaplan:
That is what they call me. I felt so happy for Ed Wood that he says about Plan 9, this is what I’ll be remembered for. I was like, yes, you will. It was such a whirlwind of emotions for me.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Do you guys feel that too?
Seth Vargas:
Oh absolutely.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah, absolutely.
Seth Vargas:
Michelle, are you tearing up during this?
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Oh yeah.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Totally. I mean there’s a quote and I’m paraphrasing here that it is said that Ed said, if you want to know me, see Glen or Glenda, but to truly see my work, it’s Plan 9. I want to be remembered for Plan 9. And so to see that portrayed on film in Burton’s Ed Wood, I love it. And then when he’s just mouthing the lines, I love when we see Depp do that.
Seth Vargas:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, yes.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Michelle Rubinstein:
To see your art play and share it with people, amazing for us and for a creator.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, you guys, this flew by. Can you believe it? Is there something you’re burning to say about Plan 9 or Ed Wood that we did not get to?
Seth Vargas:
It flew by like a styrofoam UFO on a string.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Shaped like a cigar.
Mandy Kaplan:
It did.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah. I would say, hey, if you’re interested in Ed Wood, we have episodes over on Movie Friends Podcast about Ed Wood the film and about Plan 9. Michelle, my co-host, I don’t know if you’ve ever met her or heard of her.
Mandy Kaplan:
She sounds lovely.
Seth Vargas:
Yeah, she’s great. She coined a phrase on our show that we use, which is a schmoovie. And so when we do our ratings at the end of a film, we rate it one through five stars, but we also rate it as a schmoovie, a movie, or a film.
Mandy Kaplan:
Got it.
Seth Vargas:
And that’s kind of our play on the idea of, well this is a movie, but this is a film.
Mandy Kaplan:
Absolutely. And then there’s schmaltz, stuff you love, or schlock you love, but you love it.
Seth Vargas:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I get a schmoovie.
Seth Vargas:
Right. And so we don’t stand by that idea, but we adopted it and now we do it to every movie where it’s like, oh, The Godfather, that’s a film, but The Matrix, that’s a movie. But then occasionally you will find a movie that is neither film nor movie. It is a special secret third thing.
Mandy Kaplan:
Grease 2.
Seth Vargas:
Yes, Grease 2 would absolutely — I mean Grease itself would be on the border of a movie and a schmoovie.
Michelle Rubinstein:
No, that’s your opinion, Seth.
Seth Vargas:
Well, that’s my opinion, but we won’t get into that.
Michelle Rubinstein:
We’re not gonna get into that.
Seth Vargas:
We won’t get into that.
Michelle Rubinstein:
No.
Seth Vargas:
But we have a whole category.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Yeah.
Seth Vargas:
So if you are interested in B movies and bad movies, my recommendation is watch more Ed Wood films. Michelle mentioned Glen or Glenda. Glen or Glenda is fascinating. It falls under the educational exploitative movies that were being made. Towards the beginning of the film, the producers on the phone yelling about territories. I don’t know if you picked up on that or not, Mandy.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-mm.
Seth Vargas:
How familiar are you with the production code?
Mandy Kaplan:
Not very. I mean, I listened to You Must Remember This.
Seth Vargas:
Okay, right. So, one-minute production code TED talk. In 1934, the studios self-imposed a production code so that they could sell movies to more markets because they were being boycotted for showing sex and violence and things like that that were deemed immoral.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mm-hmm.
Seth Vargas:
And so movies got this approval stamp and now it can be played anywhere. But people kept making movies that were called exploitation films that dealt with topics that were unseemly, but it was always under the guise of education. And so Glen or Glenda, Ed Wood’s first film, falls under that because of the Christine Jorgensen gender affirmation surgery. It was the first highly publicized American case. And it’s fascinating. It’s one of the weirdest movies you’ll ever see.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah.
Seth Vargas:
But that’s all I want to say is keep going with Ed Wood. They’re easy watches. They’re almost always up for free. And all of them will produce in you that curiosity and interest that Plan 9 does. Perhaps more so, actually. Plan 9 might be his most polished movie.
Mandy Kaplan:
Damn, now I gotta watch.
Seth Vargas:
Anyway, that’s it for me.
Mandy Kaplan:
If it’s the most polished. Well, you guys, everybody check out Movie Friends anywhere you get your podcasts.
Seth Vargas:
Mm-hmm.
Mandy Kaplan:
You can hear my episode, The Bride. It’s already out. And go back in their library and explore the titles that interest you. Thank you guys so much for coming on my podcast and making me a nerd.
Michelle Rubinstein:
Thank you for having us, Mandy.
Mandy Kaplan:
You don’t want to say thank you, Seth?
Seth Vargas:
I thought we were doing the cool goodbye where we would just fade out. So you can fade out, Pete, fade out on this one. Mandy, we learned a lot here today.
