Rhonda Noordyk is the host of the Divorce Conversations for Women Podcast and CEO of the Women’s Financial Wellness Center. In her work, she helps women ask tough questions so that they get the answers that they need to navigate the divorce process.
This week on the Toaster, Rhonda shares her insights on financial awareness in the marriage and why it is so important to a healthy communication practice, and a healthy divorce. Her practice is just a part one resource in the process, so she shares her recommendations around building your divorce team with counseling and insurance specialists and more.
Links & Notes
Episode Transcript
Pete Wright:
Hey everybody, it’s Pete. We are still on our little break here at the Toaster, and we’re just resurfacing some of our favorite conversations from years gone by. And this week we’ve got a fun one. Rhonda Noordyk. You remember Rhonda Noordyk? She is the host of Divorce Conversations for Women podcast, helping women ask tough, tough questions so that they get the answers they need to navigate the divorce process. Well, she’s fantastic, and so we’re resurfacing this episode from season two. We’ve got a couple more weeks here, I think, before we get back into some new stuff. So thanks for your patience. Thanks for letting us have a vacation, and we’ll see you on the other side.
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster: A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships from TruStory FM. Today we’re taking on tough questions with a tough guest to help.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show, everyone. I am Seth Nelson. And we’re here, as always, with my good friend, Pete Wright, and a special guest today, Rhonda Noordyk, host of Divorce Conversations for Women podcast and CEO of The Women’s Financial Wellness Center. On her show, she helps women ask the tough questions so that they get the answers that they need to navigate the divorce process. Rhonda, welcome to the show.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Hey! Seth, thanks so much for having me.
Pete Wright:
That’s so good, right? We put that in the script to demonstrate that we listen to you.
Rhonda Noordyk:
That’s right.
Pete Wright:
Every word…
Rhonda Noordyk:
That’s right.
Pete Wright:
We totally listen to you.
Seth Nelson:
And let’s just get it out there right now. How often do men actually listen?
Pete Wright:
I didn’t even know I was setting you up for that, Seth.
Seth Nelson:
And notice Rhonda didn’t respond. She got real quiet, real quick.
Pete Wright:
I know, real quiet. She doesn’t need to say word.
Rhonda Noordyk:
I know when to be quiet, believe it or not.
Pete Wright:
Rhonda, we’re so glad to have you here and your show is great and it’s such a fabulous resource. And we should say, full disclosure, Seth was just on your show a couple of weeks ago in December, episode 85, link in the show notes-
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
… talking about the world-famous Seth Nelson Peace acronym.
Rhonda Noordyk:
It’s all about-
Pete Wright:
World-famous trademark. Check your local jurisdiction piece. And so we’re here talking about your show asking tough questions for women. Let’s get this out of the way first, which is, we try not to trap ourselves in too many gendered conversations and we run into a lot of people for whom hard questions are hard questions, whether you’re men, women, other. What’s your experience in the show practically where there are questions that are unique to women right now?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yeah, I think that women approach divorce differently. I think that the biggest thing is for them to say, “Hey, I don’t really know where to start.” And it’s not that the questions themselves are necessarily different, I think it’s just the way that men and women approach the questions that’s different, if that makes sense. So a lot of times the women that I’m working with, they have been contemplating divorce for years, sometimes decades. And it’s, “Okay, well now I think it’s time. How do I know it’s time? And where do I start?” That’s probably the biggest question, which is obviously backed by fear. “I don’t know where to start because I’m afraid of either what I’ll find or the journey ahead or not knowing what I don’t know,” and all of those kinds of things.
And I think a lot of times, people will ask, “Rhonda, what about the guys?”
And I’m like, “Okay. First of all, Women’s Financial Wellness Center does not hate men, okay? However…”
Seth Nelson:
But then there’s the however.
Pete Wright:
Right?
Rhonda Noordyk:
However-
Pete Wright:
It’s carrying a lot of weight.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Right. The however, though, is that I just love working with women, because they’re usually open and they recognize that they need guidance and help. They value having a supportive team of people that come alongside and help them. So it’s not to say that the guys don’t need help, because I think a lot of times they do. It’s just that either A, they’re not going to ask for help and they process that information and those questions differently. And secondly, I’m one person. And I’m good, but not that good. There’s only so much bandwidth I have and I’m just passionate about helping the women.
Seth Nelson:
Well, I really appreciate how you dealt with that question in your approach, because from my experiences, I think a lot of what you said is true is that, generally, women will approach this differently then men. And it’s not that I don’t have experience with dealing with men that are like, “I don’t know where to start. I’ve been contemplating this for years. I don’t know the finances. I’m afraid of what I’m going to find.” There will certainly be those, but there is, I believe, in my experiences, society where women will join together to support each other differently than how guys do it.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
And for whatever reasons that that works in sociology is beyond me. I appreciate that that happens. When we’re dealing with finances though, and where they are and everything we’re going to talk about, is it fair to say, for today, we’re going to talk about it as if the woman doesn’t know, but this applies to anybody, man or woman or other, that doesn’t know about their finances or things they should be doing in their divorce process?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
I was curious on that point as you elaborate this whole idea that what are the barriers between couples not being aware of the finances of the couple? Is it a… Seth and I were talking before the show, is it a professional thing? If you’re an accountant or a business owner, you’re going to know the numbers. Or is it even a generational thing? If you are 50, do you have what would be traditionally, or I should say stereotypically gendered roles in the family where the husband does the books kind of a thing? What’s your experience with all that?
Rhonda Noordyk:
I think there’s a couple things. One is certainly the professional aspect is huge. So I have a lot of clients whose husbands are financial advisors or financial analysts or have positioned themselves professionally as knowing more about the finances, because it’s what they do. I think it’s also how they’re wired. And I always say their love language is spreadsheets. They come in and they’re like, “All right, I’ve got all this.” The more spreadsheets, the more screens-
Seth Nelson:
That is sexy. Let me tell you, that’s the [inaudible 00:06:59].
Pete Wright:
Oh, dear.
Rhonda Noordyk:
It’s true.
Pete Wright:
My love language is spreadsheets.com. Swipe right for spreadsheets.
Rhonda Noordyk:
It’s so true. Unfortunately, there’s times when they’ll use that to intimidate, because they know that the more chaos and confusion that they can provide for their spouse, the less likely they’re going to ask really good questions.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Rhonda Noordyk:
I think there’s a professional aspect where the women feel intimidated.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, hold on one second. I have a confession to make.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Your love language is spreadsheets.
Seth Nelson:
It’s not. But I’m a nice Jewish boy and I’m about to make a confession.
Pete Wright:
Oh wait, let me get the nice Jewish boy theme [inaudible 00:07:38].
Seth Nelson:
As most people who use Excel know, if you highlight a row of numbers, it will summit at the bottom, okay? And I will say the same confession to the people that I do this to afterwards, but there are times where I will be working with people and I will highlight a row of numbers. Lots of numbers, lots of zeros, and I’ll say, “Oh, hold on. Let me just add this up real quick.” And I’ll start saying something like, “1.23 million and 157,000, then 228, carry the one, and then,” I always carry the one. You got to always carry the one, right?
Pete Wright:
You got to carry the one, of course.
Seth Nelson:
And then I’ll say, “It ends up being 3,475,284.”
And they’re like, “Oh my God, you did that in your head?”
Rhonda Noordyk:
So smart!
Seth Nelson:
And I said, “Or it’s the sum at the bottom,” and I’m [inaudible 00:08:34].
Pete Wright:
At yourself at the end, that’s the problem because you can’t see everybody. Is it Seth really closed his eyes, like his brain hurt just now.
Seth Nelson:
Right?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Oh my gosh, I love that. I’m going to…
Seth Nelson:
See? Rhonda’s going to steal it. She’s going to steal it.
Rhonda Noordyk:
I am.
Pete Wright:
[inaudible 00:08:51] show, carry the one with Rhonda Noordyk.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Oh, I love that. So yeah, so professionally, I think there’s a level of imbalance of power, professionally, because that’s a big deal, and so that plays into, I think, the psychology on how women approach things. Like, “Oh, he’s super smart.” I’ll give you an example.
So there was a lady that I was working with and her husband owned… He was in politics, and he was really well known in the community, and he was known for building new subdivisions, right? So he was in the construction industry as well. And so he put together something for her on a legal pad, yellow legal pad and writes down all of the things that they have, all the assets, and says, “Hey, here’s a snapshot of what we have.”
So we go to do the attorney interviews, and she brings this sheet, and she pushes it over to the attorney. And the attorney’s like, “Okay. Well, great start, but where’s all the backup documentation?”
And this lady says, “Well, he’s super smart and I know that he has… In full disclosure, I trust him.” And she’s like, “Listen, this guy’s 55 years old and if he really had his act together, he’d have more than $2,000,000 of assets.”
And I’m like, “Right.” But she had put him on such a pedestal that she felt totally comfortable with a legal pad with that [inaudible 00:10:14] no! It could’ve totally been legit. I’m not opposed to that, but we need the backup documentation to verify the numbers on that pad of paper.
Seth Nelson:
It’s like Reagan said, “Trust, but verify.”?
Rhonda Noordyk:
A hundred percent. So the professional aspect, I definitely think is part of it. I do think there’s an aspect of bandwidth like, “Okay, we’re going to divide and conquer.” And nobody’s sitting around singing kumbaya about the finances. They’re just not. Everybody’s kind of got their thing and you just, “Hey, they do their thing as a couple.” And whether that’s a generational aspect, I think there’s sometimes that, but I think it just comes down to practicality as far as time.
Pete Wright:
Well, and it certainly sounds like that’s the resource, that’s the piece of the puzzle that you fit. There is, it sounds like a defensive aspect that says, “You know what? I’m feeling so awash in this that I need someone just to help me feel a sense of control.”
Rhonda Noordyk:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
Or a sense of power again.
Seth Nelson:
And I think along with that, Pete, is not being overwhelmed. Is that it is so overwhelming. You remember the episode we did where we listed out all the documents that you had to do in mandatory disclosures where it went on and on and on in tax returns, and it’s just like nauseating. And that’s so overwhelming. And so to have someone like Rhonda who helps people go through the process and say, “We’re just going to start gathering some information, and I’m not going to ask you to go get all your tax returns at one time and all your bank account statements and all of this and all of that, but this week, we’re going to get our tax returns. And how do I even get my tax returns? Well, you can go to the IRS and request your tax transcripts. You don’t need your husband’s permission. You don’t need your wife’s permission. All you need is that it’s you and your social security number, and you can go to the IRS website and order your tax returns. They’re called transcripts.”
Doing it one step of a time gives you a sense of empowerment. It gives you a sense that you’re not overwhelmed, and it gives you a sense of accomplishment. “I haven’t looked at my taxes in 10 years and here I went and I got them, and now I’m going to work with someone and I’m going to give them this and say, ‘In 10 minutes, I want you to explain to me my tax returns. I don’t want to know every little detail. I don’t need to know every real detail. I just need enough information to make an informed decision.’”
Rhonda Noordyk:
And I think it’s the mindset piece around it too, like, “Hey, listen. Just because women haven’t handled it, it doesn’t mean that they’re not capable of handling it.” So there’s this aspect of us saying, “Listen, you’re smart. With the right knowledge and the right experience, you’re going to come out of this process potentially with more confidence than when you started,” especially if we’re working with them through that process and taking those micro moments like Seth said, to say, “Hey, let’s just take a couple minutes and I want to share with you what you have here.”
And so it’s not like, “Hey, let’s turn on the fire hose,” and like, “Oh my gosh, there’s all this info and I’m totally overwhelmed.” It’s just these small micro moments throughout the divorce journey that they then come out of the other side feeling more confident about making financial decisions.
Seth Nelson:
Well, and maybe for the first time in their adult lives or ever, they know where their money is, they know where it’s going, and they know what choices that they get to make.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yep.
Pete Wright:
Let’s talk a little bit about how you get into the process. At what point are you engaged or do you engage in the divorce process generally? Do the lawyers call you and bring you in? Do the wives themselves? How does that work?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Normally, they reach out even before they filed. So when I first started my business after being in the financial industry six years ago, what I found was that a lot of times women in the midst of it was frustration around the process and not knowing what they didn’t know and all that kind of stuff that they would call. When I launched the podcast two and a half years ago, what I found was we were reaching more women who were in that contemplation stage who hadn’t filed. So we’ve seen a shift in that. Most of the women reach out before they have filed. So we’re actually sometimes the first person that they will reach out to.
Pete Wright:
See? That’s something men wouldn’t do.
Rhonda Noordyk:
No.
Pete Wright:
“I’m thinking about it.”
Rhonda Noordyk:
No.
Pete Wright:
“I think I’ll research and get my ducks in a row,” said no man ever.
Seth Nelson:
Right. Why are men lost in space? Because they refuse to ask for directions.
Pete Wright:
Right?
Rhonda Noordyk:
So we often get involved in the beginning and we will help them, at that point, start gathering that information. It’s not uncommon if we’re working with clients that they actually have all of their financial documentation and even their financial affidavit or financial disclosure done at the time that they file. And [inaudible 00:15:11] like, “What the heck did you guys do?”
We’re just prepared. And I think because we’re able to be in the weeds a little bit more. We can do a little more handholding throughout the process than maybe the attorneys are able to do, but we can come along and support what they’re doing as part of the process.
Seth Nelson:
And on that point though, Rhonda, from a lawyer’s perspective, one of the things that is very difficult for all of our clients going through this is getting all of the documents, the financial documents together. And my paralegal, who is amazing, loves dealing with all those financial documents and working with her clients to get them. What she loves even more is when it all comes in a nice package, and it’s ribboned together, and she can actually do the initial analysis of, “Do I have all the documents that’s required?”
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
“What am I missing, if anything?” And to dive in.
And this is where the exploratory stage comes in, I always say it’s like… Pete, we’ve talked about pieces of a puzzle where you will have to look at that checking account, and then you’ll see a transfer to another number, like a savings account. And then you’re like, “Wait a minute, do we have that savings account?”
It’s right there. You just have to slow down and look.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, sure.
Seth Nelson:
And when it comes in that nice package in a bow, all organized, that’s where she can do it. And because it’s not fun for anyone, the divorce process, but it’s certainly not fun when we have to keep asking you for documents.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
So we’ll have clients come in and say, “We’re going to meet with you for an hour, and we’re going to get online, and we’re going to get your passcodes. And bring your phone so we can change your passcodes if you don’t know them, so we can pull down some credit card statements.” If we have to do that to help the client get there, great. But if they have someone like Rhonda who does that on the front end and they say, “Here you go,” we save the client a ton of money.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yep.
Seth Nelson:
We can now do the legal analysis that we need to do.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes. And I think that’s important, Seth, is seeing the value as clients are going through this process, there’s a couple areas. There’s the legal, the financial, and the emotional, and making sure that people, women in particular, have all three of those areas working together. It allows everybody to focus on their strengths and bring the best possible value that we can to our clients.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Let’s do a little visioning exercise. Given what you just said and how you work with lawyers, I’m a new client for you. How do you set me up from my experience in working through this incredibly challenging thing. I’m just coming into your office, I’m confused, I don’t know which is it. That’s pretty much true. We’re not really delving into fantasyland here. I’m generally confused person. And so how do you set me up in what I can expect in working with my attorney and the legal system vis-a-vis the finances?
Seth Nelson:
Are you asking questions like, “Do you know about your finances? What do you know? What don’t you know? Do you want to keep the house if you can afford it?” Are you having those conversations, not from a legal perspective on whether or not from a legal perspective they’re entitled to keep the house, that’s what you’re going to give to the lawyer, right?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes. So I’m asking questions like what’s their biggest challenge? What’s the thing that’s keeping up them up at night related to the finances? What do they know about the finances? A little bit about the equity in their home and a general idea of what they have as far as retirement assets, if they’ve been working, if their husband, what his role is. Is he getting a base salary plus bonuses? Those are the kinds of financial-related questions that are really important for us because it’s going to help us make the right recommendation.
Pete Wright:
So I want to get back to my question. I want to reposition a little bit because I think this is really important. I’m terrified of the law. Help me not be terrified of the legal process. That’s what I want to hear.
Seth Nelson:
I’m going to rephrase your question a little bit. Pete’s a client coming to you afraid of the law, but forget about the lawyer for a minute. They’re afraid about not knowing their finances. They’re about to go through a divorce. You might be able to find a good lawyer for them. You might not, because that might be in, whatever, Oklahoma, where you don’t know anybody. So if you have a client coming to you from Oklahoma who’s about to go through a divorce, no lawyers in Oklahoma, how are you going to help that client who’s terrified because they know nothing about their finances step by step? What do you do to help that person?
Pete Wright:
I want to feel safe. I want you to help me find a way to feel safe.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Well, I think one of the first things is listening to them and creating this opportunity to say, “Hey, listen, you’re going to have a safe space for us to have a conversation confidentially.” So that’s the first thing.
The first practical thing that we’re going to do related to the finances is we’re going to actually help them understand their income and expenses. Why? Because the budget, as much as it’s not sexy or glamorous, it is the foundation for every single conversation we’re going to have from this point forward, which is, “Rhonda, can I keep the house?” I don’t know. “How much should I be spending? How much can I afford for health insurance each month?” I don’t know. There, there’s all these I-don’t-know questions. I don’t know the answers to those until we have a really clear picture and really a lifestyle analysis of what are the current expenses? What have they been spending as a couple, as a household family, how much does it cost to run the household? But then also taking a look at, “Okay, if and when you’re going to be splitting, let’s look at the expenses that you would have as an individual.”
Seth Nelson:
I know that there are listeners out there that would be like, “Oh my God, where do I find all of this information?”
So a couple things that I’m asking whether you advise them to do or you help them with, do you have them run a credit report?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
Pulls up all of their credit, what’s out there, so at least we know there’s a mortgage, there’s credit cards, there’s a car payment. You start there.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
And once you see that, do you then say, “Okay, just…” Like here we go, Pete, I think we talked about this in an earlier show. “What’s in your wallet? What credit cards are there? And let’s pull those statements.” Very few people deal with cash all the time now. So do you help them analyze their credit card statements?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
To figure out their budget and what they’ve been spending?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes, and the bank statements.
Pete Wright:
Three simple things.
Seth Nelson:
Right, so three things they can do. They can pull their credit report at, I think, myfreecreditreport.com, they can look in their wallet and see what credit cards they have, and they can go to their bank and get their bank statements. And that, for you, would that be an amazing start for a client that has no idea where to start?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes. And I’ve had clients who will say, “Hey, my husband locked me out. I can’t get onto my online banking to pull my statements.”
I’m like, “Well, the good news is you’re on the account so you can go down to the bank and then they walk out with a stack of…” They have the bank print those for them.
Pete Wright:
Right.
Rhonda Noordyk:
So yeah, those are really some key practical things. And then we can take that information and start to make sense of it and put together their budget and looking at that.
And I was going to mention, I think a practical example of how this is important is, again, back to that question of, “Hey, should I keep the house or not?”
And we look at the budget and we look at the income and we rely on the attorneys to say, “Hey, can you just give us a basic calculation on child support or alimony, just for the purposes of helping them try to get their head around what’s coming in and what’s going out?”
And then we can say, “Hey, listen. Based on some of these preliminary numbers, I don’t know that it’s going to make sense for you to keep the house. However, here’s what we can say would be a healthy range for you as you’re going out to maybe look for an apartment,” for example.
And what that does is it allows women to go and say, “Hey, I scheduled a couple appointments. I looked at a couple places. They were actually pretty nice,” versus them going and saying, “Well, this is X amount of dollars a month. I don’t know if I can afford this, so I’m not going to make a decision, and maybe I should be living in a one bedroom efficiency in a crappy neighborhood, or maybe I could afford more than what I realized,” so it empowers them on the spot where they could actually make a decision.
Seth Nelson:
And Rhonda, just before that, even if… I love your example, because I think it’s absolutely right. Like, “Hey, what’s our range of what we might be able to expect?” It’s going to be a broad range until the lawyer gets all the information, does all the analysis that you can get little bits along the way.
And I always say, “Look, I might even get you in the ballpark. I might get you in the parking lot of the ballpark. Don’t hold me to it, but we’re going to start narrowing this range.”
But also, in your example, which I do appreciate that you said, “Okay, I can’t afford the house.” That was an assumption you made for your example, but sometimes when you’re going through the divorce process, it might be, “You can afford to keep the house, but you’re not going to have any retirement. And I can help clients make those choices about what they get in a divorce process. What I can do as the lawyer,” and I am asking Rhonda if this is what she does for her clients, is this, Rhonda. Do you say, “You could be house poor or you could get a smaller living, but you’re going to have this in retirement, and if you have this mountain in retirement at this age over this many years, this is what’s going to look like in 10 or 15 or 20 years”?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
You do that analysis with them?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes, we can do that. And I’m also looking at cash. So there’s those couple different buckets. So you’ve got the house living, you’ve got the retirement, and then you also have the cash bucket, which there’s been plenty of times where people are like, “Well, I can get the house. Great.” And yes, you have retirement assets, but you’re years away from 59 and a half, so you can’t access that money, in theory. We could talk about some ways that they could, but in theory, they can’t access that money, unless the money’s QDRO-ed, until 59 and a half. So you have zero cash.. And they’re like, “Oh my gosh. Yeah, I never thought of that.”
Seth Nelson:
So she said a legal term there, Pete. I got to jump in because I know-
Pete Wright:
I know. Would you please?
Seth Nelson:
QDRO-ed.
Pete Wright:
Somebody get the dictionary. Mr. Black.
Seth Nelson:
Qualified Domestic Relations Orders, just what everyone wants to talk about.
Rhonda Noordyk:
That’s right.
Pete Wright:
So cool.
Seth Nelson:
And it gets better, Pete. It falls under ERISA, which is a federal law. Gasp!
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
So here’s the very brief nutshell on this, and then we’re just going to move on because we really want to talk about how we can help people get through and understand their finances. But if a spouse has a retirement plan that’s governed by federal law, not an IRA, think of a 401k, think of a pension, and let’s say the husband has it, and it’s got $100,000 in it, and the wife is entitled to half of it. If you get what’s called a Qualified Domestic Relations Order that says half of that retirement or 401K is going to go to the wife, the wife can then open up a new 401k and take half of that money from the husband’s, put it in the wife’s, there’s no tax consequence.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Pete, if you take out half of your 401k, now you’re getting hit with taxes and penalties and all this sort of stuff.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
When you have a QDRO, by definition, by a divorce, and you split that in half, there’s no tax consequence on that transfer from husband to wife, okay?
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Later, if you decide to pull the money out, there will be taxes. And depending on when you do it, there could be penalties. But people get very, very concerned. But if I take half the retirement, I’m going to have to pay taxes on that. You do not if you have a-
Pete Wright:
No, they’ve thought of that.
Seth Nelson:
They’ve thought of that.
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
Okay.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Which is good.
Pete Wright:
Okay, so it’s all the same. It’s the tax consequences, when you pull it out later. It’s just a plain split.
Seth Nelson:
It’s just a split. The government will take nothing of it at that time. The government’s always going to get their piece later, let’s be honest about that.
Pete Wright:
They will. No, they’re just swimming around with mouths agape. That’s all they’re doing. They’re just waiting to bite.
Rhonda Noordyk:
And what I always say is it’s like you take the one molecule and you divide it into two. So it’s just like the splitting. But people can take those retirement funds. There’s an opportunity for them to take it without, they still have to pay taxes, but they can forego the penalty as long as they’re prior to it going into an IRA. So there’s this window where if they did need cash, it’s a qualifying event and they can take it out. And again, to your point earlier, Seth, it’s not that we’re advocating to say, “Hey, take retirement funds.” Again, there needs to be this long-term planning as well. But there have been specific situations where the women need access to some cash temporarily, and it can be an option for them to access some of the funds.
Seth Nelson:
And that’s [inaudible 00:28:38] basically what Rhonda does for clients. She’s like, “Hey, there are different options out here, but talk to your lawyer about what you’re legally allowed to do [inaudible 00:28:47] to do what you can do.” But having a good team around you when you go through this process is, I think, vitally important.
And I know we’re not talking about it today, but Pete, we’ve talked about in the past where we send clients to see mental health counselors.
Pete Wright:
Sure.
Seth Nelson:
You’re going through a divorce. Go talk to someone that, in that hour, half-hour, 45-minute session, they are a hundred percent focused on you. It’s not your friends, it’s not your family, they have no vested interest in this, worried about seeing the grandkids, or what have you. So having a financial planner that, if they’re good, and they have your financial interest at heart and not making the commission on the front end when there’s a better product to put you in that they don’t make money off until the back end, there’s all those things, you got to vet people, but when you have good people that are willing to work with you and give you different perspectives for you, the listener, the client, the person going through the divorce, you are the decision maker. And I think we cannot lose sight of that. All these professionals should be giving advice and counsel, and you should then feel as if you have enough information to make the decision. And if you’re saying to any of these people, “I don’t know, you decide,” I think you need to check yourself.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Ultimately, we’re coming in to say, “Hey, listen. Let’s make sure that you’re asking the right questions so you get the right answers and you feel empowered to make good financial decisions along the way.”
Pete Wright:
Sure. As we get to wrapping up here, I think we have two areas of resources I think that we can talk about. The first one, Seth already talked about, get a counselor. When you think about building the team, do you find yourself in a position to recommend other resource professionals that you, say, have to be on your divorce team after you’ve filled that spot of financial planning? Financial wellness?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yeah, absolutely. So there’s actually quite a few people. Obviously the attorneys, the mental health professionals are really important.
I will also encourage people to reach out to a real estate agent, especially if they need to have a fair market value or an analysis done on their home, an appraisal done on their home, so we can get some information regarding that.
Mortgage professionals, the mortgage professionals can also help run detailed credit reports. A lot of times we can get them to do them at no cost and they can do a really detailed credit report as well.
Health insurance experts. So people that can help look at the different options regarding COBRA and the Marketplace and independent insurance.
Also, the life insurance folks as far as just running some quotes on pricing for that.
So yeah, it kind of depends. We also have referred out to car dealerships, because women are like, “Yeah, the van’s like on life support and I need some help.”
I am looking at kind of the whole process and saying, “Okay, who do we need to pull in?” And it’s not, “Hey, here’s a number of somebody.” I’m actually like, “Let’s get on the phone right now and see… So let’s get a quote on the health insurance right now. Let’s schedule an appointment with this person right now.” So we’re kind of helping move things along to get the information that we need in addition to just the financial stuff.
Pete Wright:
It’s a great set of resources, things to think about. And I don’t know. Seth, did you have any holes that you would want to add in there?
Seth Nelson:
I thought that list of professionals on all different avenues for financial issues was a great list, because it covered all the different aspects that people are going to be concerned about. And, “Hey, I’m on my spouse’s insurance. When I get divorced, am I allowed to be? How much will it cost? Am I going back to work? Can I get it through my employer? But if not, what is in the open Marketplace?” That’s a great question that should be asked and be looked at early. “If I need life insurance, who do I talk to? How much is that?” So I thought that list was just spot on, and I really appreciate you sharing that with our listeners, Rhonda.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yeah, thank you.
Pete Wright:
Rhonda, let’s do the plug part. Tell us about your podcast, your business, where do you want people to go to find you?
Rhonda Noordyk:
Yeah, absolutely. So Divorce Conversations for Women is our podcast, iTunes, iHeartRadio, but they can go to our website, wfwcdivorce.com. They can listen to the podcast, they can read blog articles, but they can also book a one-on-one appointment. So we offer a free 30-minute confidential consultation. I handle all of those, so they’ll be talking to me directly and they can book a free 30-minute time slot.
Pete Wright:
Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today, Rhonda. We so appreciate you.
Rhonda Noordyk:
Hey, thank you.
Seth Nelson:
Thanks, Rhonda.
Rhonda Noordyk:
It’s a pleasure.
Pete Wright:
It’s been fantastic [inaudible 00:33:36].
Rhonda Noordyk:
Thanks, Seth. This was awesome. I appreciate it.
Seth Nelson:
Yep, take care.
Pete Wright:
And thank you, everybody, for downloading and listening to this show. We appreciate your time and attention. On behalf of Rhonda Noordyk and Seth Nelson, I’m Pete Wright. We’ll catch you next week, right here on How to Split a Toaster: A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships.
Speaker 4:
Seth Nelson is an attorney with NLG Divorce and Family Law with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to, nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of NLG Divorce and Family Law. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
