Mandy Kaplan
Hello everybody, and welcome to Make Me a Nerd. I want to say I’m Katniss Everdeen, but I will admit that I’m not. I’m Mandy Kaplan, a mainstream mom on a mission to explore all things nerd culture that I’ve been missing out on and afraid of my whole life, including what’s wrong with me, the Hunger Games. I’m very excited to talk about this with my friend Mona Chatterjee, who works for an unknown, we can’t say the name of it, international beauty brand. But I know her and love her mostly as a brilliant singer and actress that does Miscast and she has a former dance hit on the Billboard 100, y’all. And now she’s here to nerdicate me about the Hunger Games. Welcome, Mona Chatterjee.
Mona Chatterjee
Hello, let’s do it. I’m super excited to nerd out with you.
Mandy Kaplan
Right? What I wanted to say to you before we start, that’s very important, is may the odds ever be in your favor.
Mona Chatterjee
And to you.
Mandy Kaplan
So I approached you knowing you’re a nerd and I said, hey Mona, what do you want to nerd out about? What made you choose Hunger Games?
Mona Chatterjee
I was thinking about all the different fun, nerdy things, the big splashy things and stuff like that and something about, I don’t know whether it’s just I feel like we’re living in it, or it’s just in my brain, or it’s very present for me.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh God.
Mona Chatterjee
A little scary. I don’t know. Or just like something about the message of hope, of like people will turn it around in the book. It just kind of, I don’t know, it popped in my head. I must have been thinking of like are we already in a dystopian future? I don’t know, but there’s hope.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
That’s to me that book is about. It felt very current.
Mandy Kaplan
Well, it’s…
Mona Chatterjee
Like to revisit it.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah, and it’s such a phenomenon. And I want to be upfront that I did read this with Casey when he was, I think, maybe twelve or thirteen. It was one of the last times he would let us read out loud together.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh I love it.
Mandy Kaplan
Now he doesn’t talk to me at all. Not true, not true. And I loved it. I thought it was really, really spectacular. But I never read another one and I never saw the movie. I think I just felt like I did it.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh.
Mandy Kaplan
Like I read this and I enjoyed it.
Mona Chatterjee
Okay. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
It’s also darker than I can handle sometimes.
Mona Chatterjee
Yes, yeah, it is.
Mandy Kaplan
But do you remember the first time you read it?
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, I think it was a long time ago. It was very early on when it came out. It was before I was a mother. It was before I was married, I think. It was before I had a family. So I read it from the lens of the younger characters, like I kind of felt still really connected to that character, like being the strong voice. And I don’t know, I was shocked and scared, and it was darker, and I was like not ready for that part of it because a lot of people I knew were reading it and no one had talked about how deeply dark it was going to be. So you saying that, I was like, oh yeah, I was like, oh my god, what is happening?
Mandy Kaplan
And when you read the first one, were the others already out, or was it…
Mona Chatterjee
Yes, everything was out. I think the whole trilogy was out by the time I read it.
Mandy Kaplan
And so…
Mona Chatterjee
So I wasn’t in the early stages of like waiting for the books to come out.
Mandy Kaplan
Right. And did you immediately…
Mona Chatterjee
I read all of them. Yes, I immediately read everything.
Mandy Kaplan
You got nerdy.
Mona Chatterjee
Read the whole thing. Yeah, I read the entire thing. Whole process of like I find something that I can’t put down even though I’m scared or wrecked or whatever is happening and then I just don’t sleep for a while.
Mandy Kaplan
Fantastic.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, just don’t sleep until it’s done because I gotta know.
Mandy Kaplan
Your lucky husband, former guest Ben Raffle, who did Twilight on Make Me a Nerd, and you are the aforementioned wife of Ben Raffle.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah. That is me.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah, that is you. What other stuff are you nerdy about? You do romantasy, correct?
Mona Chatterjee
Some romantic…
Mandy Kaplan
The Fourth Wing and…
Mona Chatterjee
I haven’t really dived into it too much, mostly because of my problem of like once I start reading things that I’m really obsessed with…
Mandy Kaplan
Oh.
Mona Chatterjee
I can’t stop and I’m just trying to manage my time because there’s so little of it.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes.
Mona Chatterjee
But it’s on my list.
Mandy Kaplan
You have a high powered career and a…
Mona Chatterjee
Housemaid. I think Housemaid is on my list. That’s what people are talking to me about. That one right now.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
That’s on my list. So cute things on the romantic, thrillery kind of docket for now.
Mandy Kaplan
Well, I have good news for you. And here’s a side tip. Housemaid, very mainstream. So I read it right away. The rest of them are not good. Only read the first one and just leave it and pretend they don’t exist.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh great, great, fantastic, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
But the first one’s a lot of fun. There’s my mainstream tip for the day.
Mona Chatterjee
Okay, love the tip. Hot tip.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. And so I cracked open this book to read it again this time, and I’m going to do a dramatic reading of the first paragraph, which is perfectly written, and I was instantly intrigued. Here I go. When I wake up, the other side of the bed is cold. My fingers stretch out, seeking Prim’s warmth, but finding only the rough canvas cover of the mattress. She must have had bad dreams and climbed in with our mother. Of course she did. This is the day of the reaping. No one even knows what reaping means at this point.
Mona Chatterjee
And you’re still chill to the bone. Like what does that mean?
Mandy Kaplan
Chilled. What is the reaping? Oh my god, this is the day of it? Why does that give me so many physical reactions?
Mona Chatterjee
Completely. Like a full physical reaction, just the first paragraph. She creates that world so fast that you’re like not even able to take a breath almost for me.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes. Yeah. I didn’t breathe through the whole thing. And by the way, I hear the word dystopian and I’m like, I’m out. Can’t do it, but I’ll be damned. Suzanne Collins does it right. I read her inspirations were like mythology and her father’s experiences in Vietnam.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh wow.
Mandy Kaplan
And when they are in the dome or whatever it’s called, it does feel like all out war and so real.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, yeah. It does. It does. I hadn’t heard the Vietnam part. I feel like that inspiration of like the guerrilla warfare almost that was happening and you’re like creeping through the woods and things like that. I can see that.
Mandy Kaplan
I thought maybe Lord of the Flies was an inspiration, but she does not cite that. So…
Mona Chatterjee
I thought I would think that too, like that kind of edge of going after each other and the kids piece.
Mandy Kaplan
And they’re all kids.
Mona Chatterjee
The kids piece.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
I kind of got that vibe originally too.
Mandy Kaplan
Yep. And I have this version. I don’t know about other versions, but even the numbers of the pages are in a funky, almost illegible font. So it’s like you’re leaving reality behind and you’re totally immersed in this version of it. Which I don’t know how many books can really do that. Where when, you know, when your phone rings, you’re like, oh God, where am I? Who’s after me?
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh, right. I’m hugging the book for those who can’t hear it.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, the…oh I love it my God. And you know what’s so crazy is like so when you have like a physical manifestation of it for me. I’m on my Kindle. I’ll be very honest. I gotta be able to run around with everything.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay.
Mona Chatterjee
So I miss books. I just want to be able to consume what I can. And but even with…I think I read it in a paperback I think from the library originally, but reading it on my Kindle now I still feel like every bit of that world, like fully imagining into the world of it, even without all the design.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. Do you remember that feeling from the first time?
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
At what point you were like…
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh, shit, cancel my plans. I’m in this world.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah. I think from the moment she volunteers.
Mandy Kaplan
We’re going to talk about that next.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Nice segue, Mona.
Mona Chatterjee
So like sorry, I’m going into it.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah, no, that’s what I want.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah. Because a lot of it is set up and you’re hearing her story and the background and all of it and understanding what is actually happening and what you’re saying about like…like you’re saying wait what like wrapping my brain. I think that early few pages you’re like wrapping your brain around like what are you saying they’re doing?
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. Well, I’m going to tell you, she must have gone into her editor and said, here’s what I’m pitching. The rules of the Hunger Games are simple. I’m reading from page 18. In punishment for the uprising, each of the twelve districts must provide one girl and one boy called tributes to participate. The twenty four tributes will be imprisoned in a vast outdoor arena that could hold anything from a burning desert to a frozen wasteland. Over a period of several weeks, the competitors must fight to the death. The last tribute standing wins. Now, if I’m an editor and my author comes in and says, I have a new idea. Listen to this. I’m like, you twisted motherfucker, get out of my office and lose my number.
Mona Chatterjee
Are you sick? What is happening?
Mandy Kaplan
Right?
Mona Chatterjee
You would expect instant like angry backlash.
Mandy Kaplan
You want children intentionally murdering each other.
Mona Chatterjee
Like you want children murdering each other, we’re going to…and people are going to watch it.
Mandy Kaplan
For sport. For funsies. They’re going to put bets on it. It’s so dark and brilliant and scary. And then the first chapter ends with what’s her face, the Elizabeth Berkeley lady. I know I shouldn’t refer to the movie yet, but she says the last thing. Effie Trinket, right?
Mona Chatterjee
Effie.
Mandy Kaplan
She’s Effie Trinket says it’s Primrose Everdeen.
Mona Chatterjee
Effie.
Mandy Kaplan
I lost my breath. That’s the end of chapter one.
Mona Chatterjee
The most…yes, you’re expecting it to be her. I think like when the setup, you’re like, oh, it’s her, so that she’s saying, not me, not me, and I’d be…yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Of course. And they set up Prim as such a sweet, innocent…Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Just allocate young, twelve.
Mandy Kaplan
Only once in the bowl. She’s only in there once.
Mona Chatterjee
Yes, and then others are thousands of times and the vision of it.
Mandy Kaplan
Yep. This Prim…
Mona Chatterjee
And the odds. The note to like the odds may not be in your favor, like the odds with thousands of slips and just the one.
Mandy Kaplan
Right. Yeah, Gale is in there a hundred times for all the stuff he’s taken, right?
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
This is what we in my family call the Kaplan curse. I have that curse where like, we go to Six Flags, we wait in the line, we wait an hour, we get up to the very front and they’re like, we’re shutting the ride down.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh my God. Really? We’re shutting down. It’s done.
Mandy Kaplan
And Casey’s like, it’s the Kaplan curse. I would have been Prim. Like, my name’s only in there one time.
Mona Chatterjee
No.
Mandy Kaplan
What are the odds? It would be me. And I don’t know that I would have had a Katniss to volunteer, but when she does, it’s such a powerful moment. She goes…you know, and they’re like, okay, get in the train and get in and when people…
Mona Chatterjee
And it’s so fast. And you’re like…I’m like, wait, like in your brain, you’re like, I’m…and she is talking like she’s like, I’m gone, so I gotta give you every instruction. She’s like giving instructions and not even a space for emotion and it’s gone.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. And pretty immediately her life is taken over by these peacekeepers, these…
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
…automatons who are, you know, grabbing her and moving her here and having her sit there and I had an idea. This is a billion dollar idea. Are you ready?
Mona Chatterjee
Okay, okay, bring it.
Mandy Kaplan
It’s like a Wicked concept, but I want to know about the peacekeepers.
Mona Chatterjee
I had that thought. I’ve had that thought. I’m like, how did…because it’s in such huge amounts of numbers that they are attached in and then they’re far away from the capital. So what is keeping them from information, doing all of this? Like what is that story? How do you…how did that happen?
Mandy Kaplan
And what happens when they go home?
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Are they like, oh, I had a fantastic day.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
I beat some kids into submission and…
Mona Chatterjee
Yes. Like what is the thought process? Like it’s like sick, but also sometimes because I feel like there’s no way I could understand what is happening. Or like…or like I did my job, I’m home, the end. Like how…how could you remove it or how or are you enjoying it? What is…
Mandy Kaplan
Here’s what I’m pitching.
Mona Chatterjee
I don’t know.
Mandy Kaplan
It’s like Below Deck. Hear me out. Because I love knowing about the richies who get on the yacht and they’re like, oh my God, this yacht only has 25 bedrooms. It’s, you know, I love that because I love hating on them, but it’s also fascinating watching the crew and how the crew really feels about what they’re doing.
Mona Chatterjee
Of course. Yeah. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
So we’re also about to meet these characters, the remake team, which is Cinna and the people who transform Peeta and Katniss, yes.
Mona Chatterjee
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like they design everything.
Mandy Kaplan
But they are sending them off to die. We fall in love with Cinna. We like these people. They seem to care about Katniss and Peeta. But they are sending them off to die. I want to also know about them. So I want the peacekeepers and the remake team to be the Below Deck crew.
Mona Chatterjee
But they’re also…I mean, you need it like there’s…and there’s…I think I know there’s new books and new stories and I haven’t read that side of it, but like there is something of like everyone clearly follows this and now doesn’t question and the people understand the pain of it and they’re…but they’re doing it and there’s…I agree with you there’s something like there…the makers themselves of like dressing everything up and making it fabulous and that’s its own competition of like who’s got the best outfit and design, and it is like they’re putting on the show.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes.
Mona Chatterjee
But like they understand what that show means. They understand what this means for this child.
Mandy Kaplan
Mm-hmm.
Mona Chatterjee
But is it that they’re not questioning it? But I think that’s why we love Cinna is because he knows and he is trying to do it to give whatever final moment that he can.
Mandy Kaplan
Right. Of happiness, yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Like you can feel that right away. But the others, like, what is the drama? Is there drama in the group? What is what is happening there?
Mandy Kaplan
Right. And I’m going to…this is…this will be, I hope, the only political thing I will say. But you know, we are living right now in times of ICE and I imagine there are members of ICE who are like, I hate what I’m doing, but I have to do it because I need a job. I need to feed my family. And I don’t agree with it, but I’m going to do it. And then there are probably others who are passionate racist assholes. And you know, I feel like we get versions of that with these characters as well. And you probably get hardened if you’re doing something like this by your third or fourth year. You get used to it, right?
Mona Chatterjee
It’s just part of your job and you stop feeling or seeing or seeing other humans or the humans that you’re taking and you’re handling as actual humans. You’re just…you’re just objects now.
Mandy Kaplan
Right, I mean I understand why Haymitch drinks.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, drinks.
Mandy Kaplan
Because how can he face what he’s doing?
Mona Chatterjee
I think yeah, Haymitch is dealing with that. Yeah. And then like not only the trauma of having to have gone through it, but literally reliving it every year over and over and over. No way to move on from it, literally stuck in that trauma forever.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh, so they’re on their way to Panem…
Mona Chatterjee
Wow.
Mandy Kaplan
They’re on their way to the Capitol, excuse me, right? And she clues us in just a little that the Capitol used to be called the Rockies.
Mona Chatterjee
Mm-hmm. The Appalachians are the surrounding districts.
Mandy Kaplan
Chills from head to toe. I mean, it’s just too real and scary to think about.
Mona Chatterjee
You know what’s so funny is when I first read this and that part of me I was like, wait, that’s like here. And it felt like what a crazy notion. There was one line in here and it’s a little ways back, but it’s…a way to plant hatred between the starving workers of the seam and those who can generally count on supper and thereby ensure we will never trust one another. It’s to the Capitol’s advantage to have us divided among ourselves. And Gale says this. And then you think about in that region, in our whole, you know, the expanded regions of everything, there’s a lot of divide. And no one can figure out how to come together. And it has been done in such an intense way. And I could never have, when I first read this, imagined how divided everyone was going to be.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh boy, yeah, this was a different time when we thought, this is nuts. This is completely never going to happen.
Mona Chatterjee
Completely nuts. I hope it’s still nuts.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes, right?
Mona Chatterjee
It’s just the themes like the themes under it still feel like I’m like, oh my god, this has gotten real.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes. Yeah, it feels prescient and it’s terrifying, yeah. She starts training and she cries a couple times, but it happens pretty quick. And I wish we got to humanize Katniss a bit more. She feels like she was written to be this perfect badass hero. And I wanted a few more moments of vulnerable teenage girl terrified for her life.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, there’s not…it’s like a blip, right? Where she’s like, I’m not going to cry because I know everyone’s going to see this, so I’m done. Here’s my face, and you have like a couple lines and then she’s like, I’m putting on my face, and then that face is on.
Mandy Kaplan
Mm-hmm.
Mona Chatterjee
And until, you know, much later. But like this early part, there’s no semblance of regular teenage girl dealing with what has just happened.
Mandy Kaplan
Right. I wanted more of it.
Mona Chatterjee
She’s already living such a hard life. Is that just her go-to? Or is it just…I don’t know. I always…I thought that I can see that. I also think some of it was her discovering in that training, how good she actually is, a little bit of like as she’s hitting targets and like people are responding to her. She has this facade on, but underneath she’s like could I win? How would I do that? I can’t do that.
Mandy Kaplan
Right.
Mona Chatterjee
How would I but I can do this?
Mandy Kaplan
Right.
Mona Chatterjee
But how could I do that? But it would have been interesting to see a little bit more. Instead, I guess you’re like inferring it or filling it yourself, but…
Mandy Kaplan
A book does allow that exploration and it could have allowed for a little bit more vulnerability and more questioning and it felt a little action movie simplistic to me. And I also had the thought having just…this is the nerdiest thing I’ll say. You ready?
Mona Chatterjee
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan
This is inspired by The Running Man too. The original Stephen King and I never saw the original movie, but I saw the remake with Glenn Powell.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Let’s take a moment of silence. Oh my gosh, Glenn Powell and his thighs. But really this idea of everybody rooting for your demise on TV and, you know, watching for sport and the sheer violence and it’s our basest human instincts.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
You know, the need to survive. Oh, and everybody’s cheering and it’s brilliant and disturbing, but…
Mona Chatterjee
But very human because we will all watch. We already all watch. We’re already like, you can’t look away from the train wreck or the burning building.
Mandy Kaplan
Mm-hmm.
Mona Chatterjee
You can’t look away from it.
Mandy Kaplan
Mm-hmm. Or the housewives, right?
Mona Chatterjee
Or the housewives or like whoever’s flipping a table or whatever is happening, right? Like we’re watching.
Mandy Kaplan
I knew you knew the housewives.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh, of course I did.
Mandy Kaplan
Gotcha. Yeah. But it is human nature and a bit of schadenfreude. Everybody’s glad it’s not me.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Are we ready to go into the actual games, or is there more we need to say about the training and her connection with Peeta, which I really liked in the book more so than the movie, which we’re going to talk about next episode, but I liked how layered her pride is. She’s so prideful that he throws her bread and it’s like fuck him. He threw me bread. I can never look at him again.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah. And part of it is like I could never do anything to repay you and I feel embarrassed. And the other part is like I can’t even deal with you at all. I don’t want to look at you. Yeah, it’s so interesting. And I think the book takes like the right amount of time to like layer in what happens there. Because it’s a…I also find it confusing, a little bit of like teenage girl confusion of like no, I hate him, but also he did this amazing thing for me, but how dare he do that for me in the middle of all this other…and you’re…it’s a very convoluted, twisty kind of like way she views Peeta especially at the beginning.
Mandy Kaplan
Well, and then when he says, oh, the girl I have a crush on is here. I mean, I never for one moment doubted that Peeta had feelings for Katniss. Did you?
Mona Chatterjee
No, no, clear, super clear, super clear, super real.
Mandy Kaplan
That’s real. I think it’s super clear. But she’s doing the thing where she’s like, oh, I get it.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
It’s all for the game and screw you.
Mona Chatterjee
It’s fake.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
No, girl.
Mona Chatterjee
And she’s doing the track, the talk track we all do. I mean also I think that’s gotta just be nature where you’re like, I don’t trust you. I don’t trust that. This is…and she’s like taught to not trust anything anyway. So…and she doesn’t know him outside of that one epic moment for her.
Mandy Kaplan
But they’re in school together. I don’t know. And he’s such a good guy. Peeta at the bakery. He’s great.
Mona Chatterjee
Well yeah, he is. No I know like he’s…he obviously got in trouble for doing that and she knows that so she knows…there’s somewhere where she says like oh, it’s such a problem. Like now I know he’s actually a kind person.
Mandy Kaplan
I don’t remember that.
Mona Chatterjee
Now I have a problem. Like really early on where…and maybe in the training or maybe somewhere where he is nice to somebody or says something kind and she’s like, oh, now I know he’s…
Mandy Kaplan
Well, because she knows she has to kill him to survive.
Mona Chatterjee
He’s kind.
Mandy Kaplan
So yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
That’s right. Like I have a problem when I know people are good people. And I’m like, that’s not a problem, but okay, fair enough because you have to survive. So…and you’ve already seen like she doesn’t…she wants to protect. It’s her like gut thing. Let’s do it.
Mandy Kaplan
Can we jump into the games? So when she meets Rue, she doesn’t seem to have that same conflict. Rue is this sweet, innocent kid that reminds her of Prim, her sister. And she immediately is like, I’m not going to hurt you, and takes her under her wing and wants to help her. But hey newsflash Katniss, you gotta kill this kid.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah. If you’re going to protect her and save her, what are you going to do at the end?
Mandy Kaplan
And she…but she doesn’t push her away the way she pushes Peeta away.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Why do you think that is, Mona?
Mona Chatterjee
But that’s because she has…I mean clearly she has such a deep connection to Peeta because at that moment already that she is already fighting those feelings. She’s never let herself have any feelings. I mean, she and Gale are hunting and she’s talking about like, you know, I know all the girls love him, but like I’d be so annoyed to lose my hunting partner. And then meanwhile everyone is like falling over around him. But then as she describes this interaction, the like the dandelions or whatever she saw, the signs around Peeta. It’s like a deep…that I think that was already there for…I think she had deep feelings from two and just never understood it, never allowed it. Because she does do this facade. So she has to push him away because she knows she has to fake it. Like she’s trying to like fake whatever that is, but such a different feeling, right? With someone you connect to as like a sibling.
Mandy Kaplan
A sister, yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
She’s been protecting her sister forever. So it’s just very familiar. She just transferred everything, all that love and that just how she is with her sister straight to Rue. So you didn’t have to think about what that relationship was.
Mandy Kaplan
It’s almost like with Peeta, she can deny…nope, he’s not a good person, I can deny that.
Mona Chatterjee
It was natural.
Mandy Kaplan
But with Rue, she denies I’m not going to have to kill her.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Right? She just chooses which thing to deny based on what she needs to survive.
Mona Chatterjee
She just chooses, yeah, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. Go, Katniss. Sidebar. Do you know anybody named Katniss? I’ve heard the name now a few times.
Mona Chatterjee
No.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Have you?
Mandy Kaplan
Kids named Katniss.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh my gosh, in real life? Kids?
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah, yes.
Mona Chatterjee
How cool, my god.
Mandy Kaplan
Right?
Mona Chatterjee
Wow. I hope they wear braids.
Mandy Kaplan
I think I would have judged it before I read the book. Just, oh, that’s so trendy and stupid you named your kid Katniss. But realizing who Katniss is, I like it.
Mona Chatterjee
It’s deep. Yeah. Yeah, I like it a lot.
Mandy Kaplan
I do.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah. It’s bold. I like it. That’s who she is.
Mandy Kaplan
Another gut punch is early on in the games, page 160. Katniss is hiding in a tree, and here’s a pack of hunters. The voice in the pack belongs to Peeta. And it’s this pack of the bullies, for lack of a better word. The Careers. I don’t know what to…
Mona Chatterjee
The Careers.
Mandy Kaplan
Like the real badasses.
Mona Chatterjee
I just like turn them into like the Greasers from like…
Mandy Kaplan
The Sharks, the Jets, I don’t know.
Mona Chatterjee
The Sharks are like snapping except you know they’re trained to kill the other kids.
Mandy Kaplan
Right.
Mona Chatterjee
But I mean I guess that’s a little bit of the same. I guess.
Mandy Kaplan
But they…yet they’re slightly nastier than Bernardo and Chino.
Mona Chatterjee
Little scary. Little scary, because they’re literally out for blood.
Mandy Kaplan
But Peeta is…and he’s part of them. He’s with them. And…
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, he like made an alliance, but that’s who he chose to be allied with.
Mandy Kaplan
She said, I almost fell out of my tree, and I said, I almost fell out of my tree, Katniss.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
I get it. How…why…okay, so back to Rue, why do you think she trusts that Rue won’t kill her? They sleep together, curled up. So why…I know she’s thinking, well, I’m not going to kill this little kid. You know, this is like my sister here now. But Rue’s supposed to be killing people too. So it seems like a dumb move to trust her.
Mona Chatterjee
But she’s so little. She’s like one of the youngest. She’s twelve, right? And I feel like they watch every year like the young ones either get killed. It’s very rare to watch the very young ones actually go out and kill. But I don’t know. She is trusting, she just has to put some trust and faith in something at that moment, maybe, and that’s what she’s doing.
Mandy Kaplan
I just think her instincts are not very good. Because she doesn’t trust Peeta, but she trusts Rue, a total stranger.
Mona Chatterjee
But Rue…but Rue is like quietly away from everyone trying to hide. Similar to where she is, and Peeta has joined the alliance of bullies, like the scary people. So like there’s something in her instinct that is actually right because if you’re going to have to have an ally, you have to know who…who’s going to…I mean, those bullies would have turned around and killed her right away, right? So you gotta know who.
Mandy Kaplan
But hasn’t she ever read a rom-com or watched Cheers? Like, there’s a will they won’t they thing with Peeta?
Mona Chatterjee
I don’t know if they have Cheers in the Seam.
Mandy Kaplan
I don’t know. There’s an immediate like…
Mona Chatterjee
They’re like living in it. I’m like, oh yeah, I guess dystopian future doesn’t include sitcoms or rom-coms.
Mandy Kaplan
Damn. Other than that, it’s perfect.
Mona Chatterjee
Which is such a shame. Other than that, it’s fine.
Mandy Kaplan
Right. There is so much time spent in Katniss’s thoughts and I really wondered reading this how that would translate to the film. And is there more dialogue in the film? And I got my answer that we could discuss in the next episode. But spoiler, no, there’s not more dialogue. There’s a lot of time spent in her head. And then Rue’s death fucking killed me.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh god, I can’t…in the…I didn’t, honestly.
Mandy Kaplan
Even though I knew it was coming.
Mona Chatterjee
Like I know obviously something was going to all happen, but no, I didn’t. I honestly didn’t. I honestly was like, oh, they’re going to do something and there’ll be something else and they’ll retaliate or whatever, but like that.
Mandy Kaplan
She’s going to wake up the next day and it was all JK just a dream.
Mona Chatterjee
I don’t know. No, I don’t know. The first time I read that, I sobbed my face off. Because I was like, wait, I was not ready for that. Because it was…I was not ready for that.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. Oh, it gutted me. Taylor Swift’s song Safe and Sound. Is that from this first one? I don’t think so. I think it’s from the next one. But Rue says the mockingjays sing that song, Rue’s song, and it’s good and safe, but then Taylor wrote the song Safe and Sound. I have questions.
Mona Chatterjee
I didn’t…oh yeah, good and safe.
Mandy Kaplan
Like what…why the difference? Let me see if I can…oh it’s funny, I type S-A and my Spotify knows that I love this song.
Mona Chatterjee
Safe and Sound.
Mandy Kaplan
Mm-hmm. It’s from the…something. I can’t play it, but from the…oh no. It’s with the Civil Wars. Do you know the song? It’s so good.
Mona Chatterjee
I don’t know this one.
Mandy Kaplan
It says the Hunger Games soundtrack.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh.
Mandy Kaplan
Safe and Sound.
Mona Chatterjee
Well then I’m sure I know it in my brain as I heard it.
Mandy Kaplan
But I don’t remember it from the movie, but yeah. I was just wondering why it was written good and safe and then it became safe and sound. But we’ll never know, because Taylor can do whatever the hell she wants.
Mona Chatterjee
Taylor gets to do what she wants.
Mandy Kaplan
Mm-hmm.
Mona Chatterjee
You know. Sounded better while she was singing it.
Mandy Kaplan
Maybe. Easier to rhyme than say good and safe. That’s hard. Hard to rhyme.
Mona Chatterjee
Safe is…safe is hard, yeah, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. If you’re Jewish, trafe.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Is the boy from District 1 her first kill? She doesn’t seem freaked by it.
Mona Chatterjee
He…he is though.
Mandy Kaplan
Is that the tracker jacker?
Mona Chatterjee
That is the first…the tracker jacker.
Mandy Kaplan
Is that the one? Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Yes. That’s the first time. Yes. But I think it’s because she…I mean, she doesn’t physically harm him directly. It’s like an indirect…
Mandy Kaplan
Right.
Mona Chatterjee
It’s an indirect moment and it’s like a survival instinct, like gut survival instinct. And because the tracker jacker did it, I think it’s like she is able to somehow separate herself.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay, I think I’m conflating because I think the boy from District One was the kid, the revenge killing for Rue.
Mona Chatterjee
That’s how I always like read it. What do you think? Oh.
Mandy Kaplan
When he goes to kill Rue and she kills him. And I said…yes, not the tracker jackers.
Mona Chatterjee
Yes, okay, so that moment. Not tracker.
Mandy Kaplan
And I wondered why she didn’t grapple with that. Oh my God, I just killed somebody. I killed a human being. I know that it’s the nature of the Hunger Games, but I wanted some internal struggle about it.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
And then it came 10 pages later, 10 pages later. So…
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, it does.
Mandy Kaplan
Game set match to Suzanne Collins.
Mona Chatterjee
It…I mean all that intense emotion all together and that root…like it just oh my god, it’s all jumbled up in there. And I can’t imagine also just being so young and also having every feeling and then actually like gut instinct too, because that’s how she would behave for anyone in front of her sister. So there’s almost like a justice for her. So it took a minute for her to get to the point of like, oh, oh I did that. But like the justice and revenge came first.
Mandy Kaplan
It’s so intense and it doesn’t let up.
Mona Chatterjee
That whole part from then on, it’s like nonstop.
Mandy Kaplan
There are moments like in the cave with Peeta, which I can’t believe there’s any romance possible. But here again, it’s like but was she just doing it for the sponsors or…
Mona Chatterjee
For me, I really grappled with that as I read it. I was like, oh, has she realized she has to play the game after everything else happening and seeing him with the bully alliance and actually having killed someone and having to deal with all of it. Is she switching into the mindset of actually playing the game? Doing the…like doing the what needs to really be done to try to survive and that’s because she knows she starts realizing that the cameras are on. Like is that something that happens? I don’t know if it’s like a reality moment where she’s like, oh, I just realized I could. Because to me, it doesn’t feel real for her then at all. Absolutely feels like she’s faking it.
Mandy Kaplan
Yep. And she says she is, but I just…you don’t know if that’s just what her inner monologue or her defense mechanisms are saying.
Mona Chatterjee
Fully faking it. But it’s definitely starting from her logically deciding that she was going to act this out. But underneath that, is it because she does actually feel like she just does understand it?
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. This is also part of where I wanted more from Cinna and Haymitch and Effie Trinket. Like I wanted to know what are they thinking as they’re watching? And…
Mona Chatterjee
I wanted that too, especially as like the parachutes come and like…like how is that happening or what unfolds to like…
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
From what she does, what is happening back at the Capitol? What is the response? Like obviously people are eating it up, but you see, you get the illusion of that because parachutes come. But I want to know, but I want to know. What did they actually say?
Mandy Kaplan
Everybody who’s not in the dome…I want to know what they’re…in the arena, I should say. I want to know what they’re thinking and what they’re seeing and how they’re interpreting it. In the movie we see one moment of Haymitch really kissing ass to a sponsor.
Mona Chatterjee
Yes, they do…they do cut to it in the movie, but it’s not really…it doesn’t really have anything in the book of that exact nature.
Mandy Kaplan
And I liked that. I liked seeing him working and trying to help and yeah, there’s not enough of it.
Mona Chatterjee
But it was. Yeah. There’s not…yeah, it’s not…it’s just alluded to. And I think it’s like he sends a note, right? Like the…it’s just parachutes. So they’re not really getting like the…she gets a little feedback, but also we have no idea…anything else about it. But also we’re just sucked into Katniss’s world at that point in the book that she doesn’t know. So we don’t get to know.
Mandy Kaplan
That’s true. Oh, good point, Mona. Yeah, if she doesn’t…right, there’s no outside world for her.
Mona Chatterjee
We don’t get to know…she doesn’t know. That’s all we’re seeing. That’s it. And so that’s where we are. That’s where we live in this book. Is just…
Mandy Kaplan
Damn you.
Mona Chatterjee
Sorry, that’s where I’m at.
Mandy Kaplan
Good…no, you just rocked my world.
Mona Chatterjee
I’m like, oh, this is her…
Mandy Kaplan
Well, she is reunited with Peeta and then she’s nervous to see him naked, and I found that very charming. Like in this…you’re going to die.
Mona Chatterjee
In the middle of like everyone being hunted, hunting each other.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Yes, this is what we’re talking about. Okay.
Mandy Kaplan
You’re going to die and you’re all hee hee hee. I don’t want to see him naked. So I thought that was charming. And a reminder that she is a young girl.
Mona Chatterjee
She’s young, she’s a young girl, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes. And how did you feel about the rule change when they announced it?
Mona Chatterjee
I mean…
Mandy Kaplan
And for anyone who forgets, now there can be…if you survive with the person of your district, you can both survive.
Mona Chatterjee
There could be two victors now. First time to make a big change. I was like, that is…part of me was like, well, that’s…I mean, that’s convenient. But they respond to it and I like…there’s…they’re given a little hope and they take it. And I’m like, I don’t know if I would believe anything anyone said in the midst of that. But they do. They are like, we could go home. We could…they take the hope. So like in the midst of being tortured, hunted, murdered for sport, someone dropped a little bit of hope and they took every second of it. I feel like also that’s a very interesting reaction from kids, like from someone young, that they took it and believed it.
Mandy Kaplan
Yep, Santa Claus.
Mona Chatterjee
Because I…yeah, because I was like, what is…what trick are they going to do? What are they going to do? I instantly was like, what are they doing with this?
Mandy Kaplan
I’m seeing it as you’re seeing it from the character’s point of view, but as a reader, I rolled my eyes a little. Like, oh how convenient. Now there can be two winners.
Mona Chatterjee
I was…no, that’s exactly…it’s like I had that response because like I…it took me out a little bit because I was like…it took me out because I was like, oh okay, well we’re just going to tie this up in a nice little bow.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay, me too, me too. Okay. Okay.
Mona Chatterjee
All right.
Mandy Kaplan
We’re going to change the rules like kids on the playground.
Mona Chatterjee
We’re changing rules and you know we’ll be okay and that’s all going to be fine.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. Right. There’s a payoff, but I did roll my eyes. I just want…I want that on the record.
Mona Chatterjee
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay, and now we’re at the point of my podcast that I always come to. My regular listeners know I obsess over how things smell. But oh my God, there’s no mention of how sweat, blood, pus, beetle…and then I had a perfume idea, Katniss. And it’s a combination of all those things.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh, God, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
But this…and they’re kissing and they’re sleeping all curled up next to each other. And in the book, I understand in the movie you can’t show Jennifer Lawrence, you know, sniffing and puking.
Mona Chatterjee
All the stuff.
Mandy Kaplan
But in the book there is a chance to say, I smell, you know, awful. Like there’s just no mention of it.
Mona Chatterjee
There’s not a lot of like description of that sense, I don’t think, at all.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, across all of that. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes, and it…and I keep bringing it up and I know everyone thinks I’m nuts, but I have another obsession with what women…like we read these old-timey books that take place in the 1700s or before, or I read romantasy, Court of Thorns and Roses, whatever. What do they do when they get their periods? It is never described.
Mona Chatterjee
I always ask that question.
Mandy Kaplan
Do you? The reality of it.
Mona Chatterjee
I’m always like we just…yes. I’m like, so we’re just going to like forget…just forget about it, could pretend none of that ever happens.
Mandy Kaplan
Right.
Mona Chatterjee
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan
And in the Hunger Games, these poor…like what a disadvantage we…women are at.
Mona Chatterjee
Like it’s never mentioned anywhere. Oh, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Like if I ever end up in the Hunger Games, you know, like there’s cramping and there’s fatigue and my legs feel weak and tired when…oh I mean…
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, and yeah. You can’t move at all. You know trying to run away in the middle of whatever else is happening to your body. Oh my God. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Full physical disadvantages.
Mandy Kaplan
Well, I’m glad we both obsess over something like that.
Mona Chatterjee
I…so that’s a weird thing, but I do definitely think about that sometimes. And also, no one ever goes to the bathroom. It’s one weird thing, but no one ever goes to the bathroom.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes, yes. No, you’re absolutely right. That’s one of those…
Mona Chatterjee
Oh, real random thing to talk about. But you know, it is.
Mandy Kaplan
Everything else about this book is perfectly realistic.
Mona Chatterjee
We’re like, you have this world. But I think there is so much like intensity and realness of like the actual situation description of that and description of the surroundings is very visual for me in it. But you’re right, like sometimes we just miss the other senses, which could elevate all of it even more.
Mandy Kaplan
They could put scratch and sniffs. So when she’s describing what’s oozing out of Peeta’s injuries.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh God. Gross.
Mandy Kaplan
I’m a weirdo.
Mona Chatterjee
Maybe that magic potion they drop is like a…that salve or whatever they give helps everything smell like a bed of roses now.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. It’s Katniss, the perfume.
Mona Chatterjee
Katniss.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Katniss. There you go.
Mandy Kaplan
This is one of those things, again, I think this is a near-perfect book. But towards the end, Katniss seems to be one step ahead of the game makers often, and I roll my eyes at that thought that…
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
This 17 year old, you know, girl with no worldly experience. Yes, she’s a good hunter and she knows her herbs and her berries, but she was one step ahead of them, particularly with the…what are they called? Nightshade, that’s a real thing.
Mona Chatterjee
The berries.
Mandy Kaplan
The berries.
Mona Chatterjee
The berries.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah. And…and I…it’s some…like I don’t think she knows she’s a step ahead. I didn’t feel that part of it, but it is…but some of it does feel like conveniently placed of like her father and mother have…like she has hunted and foraged for berries and she knows which ones are poisonous because of how she had to survive and that backstory like shows up here a little bit and then she’s like using her knowledge but I don’t know. It does feel like, oh, well, this is conveniently placed for you to figure out things.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes. Yeah, and a…I mean, an…somebody who wanted to…
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah. But also the like game makers wouldn’t have known that she would know that.
Mandy Kaplan
Right. Yes, and a devil’s advocate would say, well, she was taking a calculated risk. Like what if we say we’re both going to take them and they don’t want us both to die? So I…you know, I could see that side of it, but I…
Mona Chatterjee
That’s also quick thinking, very quick thinking for someone, very quick thinking.
Mandy Kaplan
Very quick thinking for a person terrified to die in that moment.
Mona Chatterjee
Under trauma and pain and actually, yeah, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh, I’m so glad we agree. We don’t have to fight it out.
Mona Chatterjee
That is, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
So, spoiler, they both survive. They get out. They go back to the hotel or whatever it is at the Capitol. And I love the twist when Haymitch whispers to her, you’re in trouble. Because we think it’s over. Phew, right? We’re all good.
Mona Chatterjee
No…well, it’s because all of a sudden just that moment of rebellion, that small spark of rebellion, of them saying, no, we’re not…you’re not going to get your victor, and her standing up, I don’t…that’s where like it is convenient, it is quick thinking, but it is something deep inside of her anger of like everything she has been put through and her people around her have been put through that that’s what comes to her brain because that’s who she is. She’s like I’m going…I’m not going down like you want me to. I’m not going to play this game anymore.
Mandy Kaplan
So she showed them up.
Mona Chatterjee
But people saw it. Yeah, people saw it on TV.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
And can you imagine a world where you just have to follow the torturous, horrible things and just accept them and being just…you know, you’re talking about people just doing whatever they’re told. And one moment someone that publicly widespread says, no, I’m not going to do what you want me to. And like there’s a line. I don’t know if it’s this book or the second book, but they’re like…the worst thing you know worst thing you can give people is hope.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes.
Mona Chatterjee
Because that…that’s what sparks, right? There’s like some…there’s a quote and I’m paraphrasing it.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah, I think I wrote it from the movie. But we have covered this book and I have questions for you about…because you read on, I have a few questions if I can get some spoilers. But first I’m going to tell everybody that Make Me a Nerd is a production of TruStory FM, engineering by the peerless Pete Wright. My theme song is Wonderstruck by Jane and the Boy. And if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, do me a solid. Hit five stars and write a review. That helps more people find the podcast and helps me keep doing this. And if you’re feeling extra supportive, please go to makemeanerd.com/join. Hitting that button will get you your episodes ad free and early, and my eternal gratitude. May the odds ever be in your favor. You have read two, three, four. I don’t know how many there are. The newest one that came out.
Mona Chatterjee
I’ve read the trilogy.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay.
Mona Chatterjee
I’ve read the trilogy, the original trilogy.
Mandy Kaplan
And the newest one that came out last year, didn’t it break all sorts of bookstore records?
Mona Chatterjee
It did, it broke everything, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
It was so cool. That was so cool.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
I wanted a reunion with Prim and Gale, but we didn’t get it in this book. We obviously get it moving forward.
Mona Chatterjee
You…you…it. Moving forward. There’s similar story.
Mandy Kaplan
How have they been?
Mona Chatterjee
Oh, you know. They watched, they were so excited, everything was fine. Not fine. Oh my God, the depths of the story that unfolds after this. It’s like you’re reading this book that is dark, has layers, has so much happening. And then that little button at the end where you’re like what’s going to happen? And then so much happens. Mandy, you have to read the next two books. If you want more Prim, Gale, full storytelling and the full evolution of Katniss.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah, I do. I’m a little busy, but I can.
Mona Chatterjee
And then it tells you why. I know.
Mandy Kaplan
No, I wrote the last thing I wrote was I have to read more.
Mona Chatterjee
Then you understand the why. Yeah, I’ll read the rest.
Mandy Kaplan
So yeah, I…
Mona Chatterjee
I have to reread the rest, honestly, after I read this. I was like, now I have to reread the rest. I have to read the new one. I gotta do the whole thing.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. It’s such great storytelling because you just need more. You’re so invested in all of these people.
Mona Chatterjee
And the layers keep coming and the story keeps going and there’s so much because this is literally the beginning. But you watch it and you’re like, oh this is a whole complete story. But no, it’s like the beginning.
Mandy Kaplan
And is there ever more of Effie and Haymitch, like do we learn more of their backstories and what they’re going through?
Mona Chatterjee
We learn a little bit more. You…more…yeah, you get more of there.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay. Not as much as I want though.
Mona Chatterjee
Yes, you do. Not as much as you want, I’m sure. Not as much as you want. But you do get the like picture of what has happened. And then also you get the current…like what happens next for them. Because things change.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh…you did that…you did that in like a trailer voice that was so perfect. You get the current…oh my goodness. Well, Mona, we did it.
Mona Chatterjee
Oh, my gosh!
Mandy Kaplan
We went through the Hunger Games.
Mona Chatterjee
Thank you for like, oh my god, what a…like what a moment to relive one of my favorite books. Like it’s been a long time and was such…I felt so different reading it now. And then to like talk through the like nuances of all the story. Oh my gosh.
Mandy Kaplan
How old do you think Aria will be when you suggest it or read it with her or…because she’s what three and a half, four?
Mona Chatterjee
I love it. I don’t know, probably…she’s four and a half, so I think twelve probably to like so that she can get all the…maybe earlier though.
Mandy Kaplan
Four and a half. Okay. Set a timer on your phone right now.
Mona Chatterjee
Maybe…oh my god, I love it. I love it. What date is that?
Mandy Kaplan
Eight years from now.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah, I love it. Eight years from now. Yes, eight years from now.
Mandy Kaplan
When we talk about the movie, we can talk a little bit about the rating and who the audience should be for this book and it’s a little hard to believe this is a YA because even though it’s about young people, it is violent and graphic.
Mona Chatterjee
I agree. That’s where like I say 12, but it’s very violent.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
Yeah. Yeah. And intense like thought, like the like what you end up thinking about from it.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Mona Chatterjee
So yeah, it is a little…
Mandy Kaplan
I will see you for our next episode together. Everybody, tune in next week for Hunger Games the Movie with my returning guest, Mona Chatterjee.
Mona Chatterjee
Can we…
Mandy Kaplan
And until then, thank you for listening everybody. Until next time.
