Mandy Kaplan
Hello everyone, and welcome to Make Me a Nerd. I’m Mandy Kaplan, a mainstream Swiftie who’s obsessed with things like housewives and fantasy football, and I’m on a mission to explore the other side: all things sci-fi, fantasy, and nerd hobbies people get into. I have a return guest to help me on my mission today. He is a television editor and the father of my child. Our child, I guess. There are test results… that we have not received.
Jeremy Klavens
Oh, we received them. I just didn’t open them.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay. You guys, Jeremy Klavens is back on the podcast.
Jeremy Klavens
I’m back. Woo!
Mandy Kaplan
Hi.
Jeremy Klavens
Hi. Long time no see.
Mandy Kaplan
I know. From the kitchen three minutes ago to live on the pod.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah. Yeah. Feels good.
Mandy Kaplan
You’ve been hesitant when I ask you to come on the podcast, because I feel like you love a lot of shows and a lot of nerdy shows, but you didn’t feel like you could really nerd out with any strange point of view.
Jeremy Klavens
Yep. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Is that accurate?
Jeremy Klavens
That’s completely accurate. The last time I was on was for Game of Thrones, which I was an extreme nerd about. Since then, I love a lot of things—I love a lot of shows—but it’s been hard to find something that gets me passionate. Today’s topic does.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes. Can I talk to you for a second?
Jeremy Klavens
Over here?
Mandy Kaplan
No one’s listening.
Jeremy Klavens
Over here?
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. Okay.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah. What’s up?
Mandy Kaplan
You’ve been on the podcast for two minutes and you haven’t told me I’m pretty. And I think that’s a problem.
Jeremy Klavens
Okay.
Mandy Kaplan
Hello everybody, and welcome to Make Me a Nerd.
Jeremy Klavens
Gosh, you’re so pretty.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh, you didn’t have to say that.
Jeremy Klavens
How’d you get so pretty?
Mandy Kaplan
That’s my husband. Okay, enough of this personal BS. We have ten episodes of The Great Pottery Throw Down to discuss.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
You chose season four. This is a show that I have walked through—we have a room where Jarrett eats his lunch during his workday and he watches TV—and I’ve walked through for months and months and months and seen The Great Pottery Throw Down and I’ve always said, “British and boring. Not interested.” So how did you come to discover it, and what do you love about it?
Jeremy Klavens
My two friends, Jess and Jillian—Jess has been on the show before—we’ve done pottery classes together. A couple years ago, for somebody’s birthday, we did a pottery class, the three of us. I think we’ve done two or three; I can’t remember. We all really love the idea of pottery. This show was recommended to me by them, and they said, “Jerry, you’re gonna love this show. It’s pottery, it’s British and boring,” which is a positive. It took me a while because I thought, “Really? We’re gonna watch people throw pots? Kind of lame. How do you make a TV show out of that?” They really encouraged me to give it a try. I did, and I fell in love instantly.
Mandy Kaplan
Now, it is similar in tone to The Great British Bake Off.
Jeremy Klavens
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan
But we tried that one and we were like, “Meh.” We just didn’t jump on it the way the world has.
Jeremy Klavens
There’s a reason for that that I’ve learned. We tried season one of Great British Bake Off—Jess and Jillian got me into that show too—and they said, “Don’t watch the first season.” They may even have said don’t watch the first two seasons. It gets a lot better, and it does. That’s another show I’ve started and truly love as well. I think you and I just watched the wrong season. But they are very similar shows.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay. Yes.
Jeremy Klavens
I don’t know if they’re produced by the same company, but I wouldn’t be surprised. The structure is exactly the same, the style is exactly the same, the feel is exactly the same.
Mandy Kaplan
Right. You and I are big Top Chef nerds, and Top Chef used to be negative. I watch a lot of other reality shows where there’s trash talking and trying to cut people down. This has zero of that energy.
Jeremy Klavens
Absolutely zero. That’s one of the things I love so much about it—and Bake Off. It’s truly these amateur people doing something they love together. Yes, it’s a competition, but they are all so supportive of each other. They learn from each other. They help each other.
Mandy Kaplan
So why can’t we be that way in our marriage?
Jeremy Klavens
That’s the thing. I don’t think it’s possible.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh. Okay.
Jeremy Klavens
I just don’t.
Mandy Kaplan
Wow.
Jeremy Klavens
You’re just not a good enough person.
Mandy Kaplan
Check me out on my other podcast, Looking for Love.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
No, it possesses all of those wonderful qualities: positivity, support, creative collaboration. It’s great.
Jeremy Klavens
And on top of that, you said “British and boring,” but there is a positive to that. There’s a hominess, a coziness about these British shows. I like hanging out there. I like being in that environment, being with these people. It’s an asset that it’s British and a little not salacious and not chaotic.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay. Splashy and fast-paced.
Jeremy Klavens
Splashy. There are no cliffhangers at the end of an act.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. Right.
Jeremy Klavens
It’s… yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
So why season four?
Jeremy Klavens
I picked season four for a reason, but I also second-guessed it. I’ve watched five seasons. I think there are seven or eight, maybe. I loved season one and I thought about picking that. It’s fun and the host is great. Season two was not my favorite, just in terms of the potters—the talent wasn’t as great as the other seasons I’ve seen. I was gonna pick either season four or season five, and I’m feeling like maybe I should have picked season five. But season four is the one I love because I thought the talent was really great. There were a lot of different types of contestants. Some of the personalities—I truly fell in love with them, and I thought you would too.
Mandy Kaplan
Well, and it started with a cheese challenge and I wrote, “Oh, you do love me,” because y’all, I am a cheese-aholic.
Jeremy Klavens
So that’s why I picked it. Yep.
Mandy Kaplan
So I was happy to see them having to create cheese sets as their first challenge. And the tone is very cheeky. The host—remind me her name.
Jeremy Klavens
They’ve changed hosts many times. This is Siobhan McSweeney. If people have watched Derry Girls, she played the head nun at the school. She was wonderful in that.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay. But she comes out and does a little character monologue for every episode.
Jeremy Klavens
Just a little intro to what the theme for that week is.
Mandy Kaplan
Like: here I am in a costume, and I’m making it cheeky. And I want to talk about these contestants, because they are everything in a reality show like this. You get invested in their stories. First of all, across the board, they’re all extraordinary people—caregivers, nurses, someone created a nonprofit foundation. All of them seem so kind. It’s hard to get to know them as rapidly as I wanted to, but I have some initial impressions. Just my first thoughts.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah, go for it.
Mandy Kaplan
For anyone who has watched season four, I think you’ll agree: Lee—he’s bald—he’s like a giddy Rob Corddry.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah, absolutely. Giddy British Rob Corddry.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes. I wrote: Shenyu—clearly she’s a model. Then I found out I was right.
Jeremy Klavens
You’re right. She is very model-ish, she’s very pretty, and yeah—she is a model.
Mandy Kaplan
Stunning. Then they introduce Jodi. Pete, put up that picture of Jodi for me, please. And they look at Jodi and the actual judges say, “You know who you look exactly like?” Do you remember?
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah. And she said, “Can I say it?”
Mandy Kaplan
Yes.
Jeremy Klavens
Alanis Morissette.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes. And they’re all wrong. Nope. They’re all wrong.
Jeremy Klavens
Oh, I know what you’re gonna say.
Mandy Kaplan
You don’t.
Jeremy Klavens
I do.
Mandy Kaplan
I cracked the code. Here’s a secret about my husband: he’s specific about mouths. Whenever we talk to anybody, we walk away and he says, “Didn’t he kind of have the same mouth as blank?”
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah, I’m very specific about mouths.
Mandy Kaplan
So: she has Frances McDormand mouth. She looks a lot like a young Frances McDormand. And you’re all looking at the picture. You can all see I’m right. It’s not Alanis Morissette. I feel good.
Jeremy Klavens
I can see it a little bit, but it is Alanis Morissette. And a little of our friend Abby Fabian.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh.
Jeremy Klavens
That’s who I thought you were gonna say.
Mandy Kaplan
No. Well, I was gonna continue—do you want to talk about Jodi?
Jeremy Klavens
One thing about Jodi is that she is… Scottish? She’s very hard to understand.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes. I watched with subtitles because I found a few of them hard to understand.
Jeremy Klavens
It’s a good thing to put subtitles on if you’re an American, because there are lots of different UK accents going on.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes. Wales, I think she might be.
Jeremy Klavens
Oh yeah—Welsh.
Mandy Kaplan
Anyway.
Jeremy Klavens
Isn’t that what I said? Welsh?
Mandy Kaplan
You said Scottish.
Jeremy Klavens
Whatever. Don’t correct me.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay. It’s my podcast. I can do whatever I want. I can mute you.
Jeremy Klavens
Oh boy.
Mandy Kaplan
Pete, pop up that picture of Irena. She is the porny potter.
Jeremy Klavens
You’re being a little unfair.
Mandy Kaplan
I’m just going off my initial impressions.
Jeremy Klavens
Right. She does look a little porny. Or a little former-porny.
Mandy Kaplan
A little. Yeah, she looks porny. Henry—Pete, could you put up the picture of Henry? He looks like the British Buddy Hinton—the bully from The Brady Bunch. Like if he grew up, that’s what he would look like.
Jeremy Klavens
Oh god, that’s really funny. For anybody under 48, you won’t get that, but go check out The Brady Bunch streaming now on…
Mandy Kaplan
Yes, wherever you can stream.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
And then Pete, if you could put up the picture of Peter. He reminded me so much of the guy who played Joe in Love Actually. Bill Nighy is the rock god and he’s got this assistant and he’s like, “Turns out I’d rather be here with you than with anybody, because I love you.”
Jeremy Klavens
Oh yes. Peter—I love Peter. He’s the oldest contestant on this season, I believe. Probably in his 60s. He is just such a joy. The biggest smile, a twinkle in his eye. I hope he was everybody’s father figure on that show.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Jeremy Klavens
I kept trying to place who he reminded me of, and I could never quite get it.
Mandy Kaplan
That’s the Love Actually guy.
Jeremy Klavens
That’s a good one.
Mandy Kaplan
One thing about season four that I find interesting and triggering is that they are in a bubble. It is high COVID times.
Jeremy Klavens
Yes. It is during the pandemic.
Mandy Kaplan
So they make a point of letting us know, which I appreciate: we’ve all been completely bubbled up; no one is leaving or coming. That made me feel better. And it explains why this cast got very close. The first elimination, they were all crying immediately. It’s because it’s not your normal competition show.
Jeremy Klavens
Right. They’d been together for ten weeks or whatever it was already before they started filming because of quarantine. They really had gotten to know each other. I’d love to know what they did during that time.
Mandy Kaplan
Right.
Jeremy Klavens
Were they all in the pottery together, trading secrets? But—
Mandy Kaplan
I think they got their assignments. They clearly had time to draw these sketches beforehand. So they knew all their assignments when they got there.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah. That’s not just for COVID times. At some point they started doing that. They clearly give the assignments ahead of time because there’s research and planning and drawing that goes into the main—what they call the main makes.
Jeremy Klavens
Can we stop for a second and explain the structure of the show for people who don’t know?
Mandy Kaplan
Yes, sure.
Jeremy Klavens
Every episode they have what’s called a main make, and they get the assignment ahead of time. They get a certain amount of time to do the first part. Because it’s pottery, there are drying times and firing times where they put it in the kiln, so they have to take a break. They can’t do it all at once. So they get the first part done, and then there’s always a second challenge while the main make is drying or firing. That challenge is one of two things: a spot test or a throwdown challenge. Those are not planned. It’s: here’s what we’re going to do, on the spot. And the throwdown is one of the judges giving them a little tutorial on the wheel, right in front of them, and then they have an hour to do it. Then the rest of the show is finishing the main make, judging, somebody goes home, somebody gets Potter of the Week. That’s the structure.
Mandy Kaplan
So it’s just in reverse—like the quickfire challenge on Top Chef comes first and then the main challenge. Here they put it in the middle as an intermission. Okay. I wrote: Why is Keith—his name is Keith, the judge?
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Why is Keith crying at Jody’s “Dark Desert Highway”? And then I kept watching—we can get to it. Unfortunately, episode two, Suze said “yummers.”
Jeremy Klavens
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan
So I stopped watching the show and I threw our TV out the window.
Jeremy Klavens
I don’t remember that, but I understand the reaction completely and I support it.
Mandy Kaplan
Very upsetting. I really enjoyed the first episode. It was a lot because there are ten of them—ten contestants, right? No, twelve.
Jeremy Klavens
Twelve.
Mandy Kaplan
Twelve contestants. There was a lot of action and someone’s running to the drying room and you know—it was—
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah. The drying room.
Mandy Kaplan
I call it a hotbox. Different thing.
Jeremy Klavens
Okay, different thing.
Mandy Kaplan
This could get sexy. Make Me a Nerd hasn’t really gone there yet. The Mand Cave went there a lot. Shout-out Mandy Fabian.
Jeremy Klavens
Let’s talk about it.
Mandy Kaplan
I want to talk about the hotbox.
Jeremy Klavens
Let’s talk about it.
Mandy Kaplan
Can I see you over here for a second?
Jeremy Klavens
Again? Okay.
Mandy Kaplan
Does it turn you on when they show the hands in the clay on the wheel?
Jeremy Klavens
Yes. Yes.
Mandy Kaplan
And is it just because of Ghost, or is it a very sensual thing? Because I get a little turned on when I see the hands on the clay.
Jeremy Klavens
Pottery… I’ve taken some classes. I’m not an expert, but I love it. I love throwing on the wheel. Your hands are wet and you’re molding the clay and it’ll do whatever you want it to do.
Mandy Kaplan
And often phallic shapes as they’re going. Very phallic.
Jeremy Klavens
Sometimes. Yeah. But yes, it is a very sensual thing. Not necessarily in a sexy way, but it is sensual to have this clay in your hands and you’re working it. Okay—it’s sexual. It’s definitely sexual. And it’s fun to watch. There’s also the technique when you first put the clay on the wheel: you have to center it so what you’re trying to accomplish is even all the way around. Centering is its own thing. You throw the ball of clay on the wheel and then you push it up into this phallic shape and then you push it all the way back down again.
Mandy Kaplan
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Klavens
I think that helps get rid of air bubbles. That’s why they do that.
Mandy Kaplan
It’s foreplay.
Jeremy Klavens
It’s foreplay.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay. Now we can go back to the podcast, now that we’ve had our sexy sidebar. I liked the challenge. They made a cheese thing. Lee’s was my favorite. He put little bees on his. I like Lee’s bees the best. Did you have a personal favorite?
Jeremy Klavens
I don’t know if I had a personal favorite, but it was an interesting challenge. They had to make four different pieces—a plate and a cover and all this stuff. Not easy. At that point I’m just trying to learn who everybody is. Did you have any favorite people at this point?
Mandy Kaplan
Not at this point. Well, instantaneously, obviously, Adam. I wrote: obviously my favorite—gay, adorable, and he kayaks with his pug. You don’t get cuter.
Jeremy Klavens
Now I can say it: Adam is why I picked this season. I thought you’d be drawn to him. I was. He’s so charming, so lovely.
Mandy Kaplan
Ugh. Blue eyes. He’s just a dream.
Jeremy Klavens
He’s a looker, and he’s very talented.
Mandy Kaplan
He became my favorite by episode four, five, six. And he flew under the radar, which was upsetting. Every week I was like, “He had the best one.” And every week they were like, “Meh.”
Jeremy Klavens
He got robbed.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Jeremy Klavens
If we go to episode two: slab building. You don’t throw on the wheel; you roll out slabs of clay and hand-build them together into a structure. This was 3D buildings.
Mandy Kaplan
3D buildings with a light fixture.
Jeremy Klavens
It could be anything you wanted, and the idea was you had to put a light fixture inside the building. So your building had to have windows so the light could be seen, but not necessarily to see the bulb itself. It’s a difficult challenge.
Mandy Kaplan
In this episode Henry said, “Measure twice, cut once,” and I wrote it down because you taught me that.
Jeremy Klavens
That’s a saying.
Mandy Kaplan
Yes. You’re handy, you know what you’re doing. When I get a little bam-bam and I’m like, “Can’t you just hammer the nail?” you’re like, “No. Measure twice.”
Jeremy Klavens
Exactly.
Mandy Kaplan
Jodi is a nurse and a triathlete. All of these people make me feel like a talentless, lazy piece of poop.
Jeremy Klavens
Listen… there’s something to be said about that. No. You’re none of those things. One thing I love about this show—and Bake Off—is they are all regular people. None of them seem super wealthy or highly successful driven people.
Mandy Kaplan
Right.
Jeremy Klavens
They all live these middle-class lives.
Mandy Kaplan
Middle-class, yeah.
Jeremy Klavens
And they seem to have a great work-life balance where they spend time doing things they love, like pottery. I think we can all learn a lesson from that. There’s something to be said about living your life, doing the things you love, not letting the world get you down, taking control of your life and doing what you want with the time you have. I know that’s a little deep for the pottery show, but—
Mandy Kaplan
Can I see you over here for a minute?
Jeremy Klavens
So in that challenge, some amazing builds. The two that stood out: Sal made a mill. She lives in Cornwall, I believe. There’s this old mill she walks by every day with her dogs, and she brought that thing to life. Brickwork, different materials—wood, brickwork, different colors of brick where the weather had changed it. Outstanding.
Mandy Kaplan
Sal’s really talented.
Jeremy Klavens
I wrote that Adam’s garden was amazing.
Mandy Kaplan
I wrote: I love Adam’s garden, but is that a building? I loved it, but I was like, I don’t know. I think he made a little mushroom house.
Jeremy Klavens
This is where you and I differ. This is where I said he was robbed. I thought he made a fantasy building—something out of a fairy tale. Tiny mushrooms growing out of the sides, like where a Smurf would live or where Bilbo Baggins would live.
Mandy Kaplan
A fairy tale. I get the Bilbo Baggins reference now.
Jeremy Klavens
Because you’re such a nerd now. Everywhere you look, there’s something different to see. He had a little clothesline with tiny clothes hanging. The light coming out was exquisite. I thought he should have won.
Mandy Kaplan
I’m not saying it wasn’t good. I just don’t think he followed the directive to make a building.
Jeremy Klavens
Interesting. That did not occur to me.
Mandy Kaplan
Sal won, right?
Jeremy Klavens
Yes, she won. Let’s talk about Alan.
Mandy Kaplan
Alan—the Israeli Jonas brother.
Jeremy Klavens
Yes. He’s the youngest contestant. What was your take?
Mandy Kaplan
He was weird. He did weird stuff. There were whales and everything. He had a different sensibility. I imagine some people would say he’s a genius—a mad genius.
Jeremy Klavens
He’s so creative, always thinking outside the box. That’s impressive for somebody that young. But almost every time he kind of failed.
Mandy Kaplan
They called this one an absolute disaster. That was the first negative thing I heard on the show. Keith let that fly.
Jeremy Klavens
The idea was to build a building, and he built a whale with a structure on it. His imagination is greater than his talent at that point. I’d be interested to see what he’s doing now, but I didn’t look him up—I don’t want to ruin future seasons.
Mandy Kaplan
So far I think this podcast is going really well. I’m amazed you can sit in a chair and talk into a microphone. I’m sorry—why is Keith crying all the time?
Jeremy Klavens
It’s my favorite part of the show.
Mandy Kaplan
This judge—every other piece he sees, he bursts into tears.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
And Jarrett thought I was really crying because I’m an actor. At first it happens and the first person is like, “Oh my God, I made him cry.” Then the second person is like, “I made him cry.” But then it loses meaning.
Jeremy Klavens
I disagree completely. I love Keith. He’s this big lug of a guy—if you saw him on the street you might think he’s a plumber or something. You wouldn’t think he’s a potter. But he makes pottery for a living and he’s an expert. He is so accomplished. None of that is fake. He is truly moved by these pieces. It’s not only how they look—he’ll pick something up and the weight makes him cry because it’s so perfectly weighted or constructed. He gets overwhelmed. If you ask me to make a toast at a wedding, I won’t get through it. I’ll get choked up and start crying. Keith is like that.
Mandy Kaplan
In the show notes, I’ll put a link to our wedding vows to prove it.
Jeremy Klavens
Oh my god. I couldn’t.
Mandy Kaplan
You sobbed. We both did. I’m not accusing him of being phony. I just think if I were like, “Well, I made him cry,” but I’ve seen him cry at 17 pieces before mine, it would lose its import.
Jeremy Klavens
It’s not a shock that he cries, and it’s not that hard to get him to cry. But it is meaningful because he truly means it. Whether it happens once or twelve times, it’s still the same reaction. I find it endearing.
Mandy Kaplan
This episode brought to you by divorce lawyers.
Jeremy Klavens
Tears.
Mandy Kaplan
I don’t remember meeting Rose in the first episode, but we do meet Rose in this episode. They’re the person who handles all the pieces and puts them in the kilns or the hotbox or whatever.
Jeremy Klavens
They’re the technician.
Mandy Kaplan
They are the NFL kicker. Because if they mess it up—the pressure of that job. Poor Rose.
Jeremy Klavens
There might have been an episode early in a different season where there was a problem with the kiln and things went awry, but I feel like that never really happens.
Mandy Kaplan
Have you ever seen an episode where Rose had to come out and go, “Hey guys, I’m so sorry I dropped this in transit”?
Jeremy Klavens
No. Not that I remember. But when pieces break in the kiln, does anybody think it was the technician’s fault? They’re not gonna play that.
Mandy Kaplan
Right. They’d never accuse poor Rose, who’s doing the Lord’s work. But I was fascinated by that job. When we watch football we always say it’s gotta suck to be the kicker. That’s your one job: you can be a hero or ruin everything.
Jeremy Klavens
A zero.
Mandy Kaplan
I get why you fall asleep watching it. It is soothing and calm—bordering on boring for me, but not quite.
Jeremy Klavens
Sure. I get that.
Mandy Kaplan
Can we move on to Fruit Bowls, episode three?
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
The two male judges, Rich and Keith—I love them both—but I don’t like when they do a three-minute scene of the two judges every episode where it’s like, “You know what could go wrong? I’m concerned the paint won’t dry.” It’s boring. It feels like filler. And here’s where I noticed episode three was just as long as episodes one and two. Why aren’t they getting shorter if there are fewer contestants?
Jeremy Klavens
Well, you don’t work in television, darling.
Mandy Kaplan
That’s a problem.
Jeremy Klavens
Every show has to be the same length.
Mandy Kaplan
So therefore there’s more filler.
Jeremy Klavens
Yes. Of course.
Mandy Kaplan
They’re stretching things out. I find that tough. I fast-forwarded all those.
Jeremy Klavens
In Top Chef it’s the same, although streaming changes it a little. Generally, every episode has to be the same length. If there are fewer contestants, you can spend more time with each contestant, and you have these little scenes.
Mandy Kaplan
I get that. But the three-minute scenes of the two guys standing over pottery discussing what could go well and what could go wrong—I could do without.
Jeremy Klavens
I get what you’re saying. It can feel phony and fillery, but there are things to learn in those scenes. Sometimes they talk about the history of a certain type of pottery or decoration, or different clay, or timing challenges. I view it as a chapter marker—a little break from being in the pottery, almost like an intro paragraph to the next act. It breaks up the episode and gives it structure. I also like seeing them not always in the pottery and not always as judges, but in a back room discussing. I disagree. I like those scenes, but I understand why you find them superfluous.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay. Episode three is fruit bowls. Somebody said, “Things seem bigger in the dark,” and then they made a bunch of sexual innuendo jokes. I wrote: that really doesn’t happen on US television anymore. As a Me Too–sensitive person, it bumps for me now. I don’t hate it. I get it’s British. It’s bawdy. But I think it’s interesting that I don’t think Colicchio could be like, “Oh, that’s a nice zucchini.” It feels… British.
Jeremy Klavens
It is very British, and I love it. It doesn’t offend and it’s not meant to offend. It’s not even meant to be sexual—it’s meant to be funny. We all have these parts. We all have sex. We all go to the bathroom. The British are really good at being chill about it and making a joke without offending anybody.
Mandy Kaplan
I just wrote I’m not sure how I feel about it. I’m not offended. It was just an observation that they don’t do that on US television anymore. And then Shenyu did vegetables and I wrote “WTF,” but at the very end, Shenyu is like, “Everything I made was a fruit, you idiots.” She came out swinging. I guess she was getting a lot of people online saying, “You made a zucchini,” and that’s not a fruit.
Jeremy Klavens
Right. A vegetable.
Mandy Kaplan
But she won, right? I didn’t write down all the winners.
Jeremy Klavens
I didn’t write down who won either.
Mandy Kaplan
Alan made, instead of a bowl, like strips, and it was weird. I wrote, “What have you done, Alan?” He’s so weird.
Jeremy Klavens
The challenge was to make a bowl of fruit, realistic fruit, and have that be the star. He did this weird bowl with like three-foot-long arcs, almost like skis, and then a tiny bowl with tiny fruit on it. It just didn’t work.
Mandy Kaplan
It was very strange. They called him out again for like, “What are you doing here?” Then episode four: Raku naked vases.
Jeremy Klavens
Naked raku, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Naked raku. Now I want to go for that for dinner tonight.
Jeremy Klavens
But you gotta cook it yourself.
Mandy Kaplan
That’s okay.
Jeremy Klavens
Raku firing is, I think, a Japanese style—forgive me if I’m incorrect—but I’m pretty sure it’s Japanese. You fire your piece outdoors, or in a very hot kiln, then you take it out and put it into combustible materials—hair, wood chips, whatever—and because of the extraordinarily high heat, it creates these delicate, often beautiful patterns on the pottery.
Mandy Kaplan
You explained that beautifully, and you were clearly a fan, and I wrote: I think these vases are ugly and unpleasant.
Jeremy Klavens
Rewatching, I actually thought the raku episode of this season was less successful than others. Sometimes they come out with beautiful effects. These were not as successful.
Mandy Kaplan
They all looked accidental.
Jeremy Klavens
That’s part of the aesthetic. You get what you get. But yeah, I wasn’t as impressed this time.
Mandy Kaplan
Lol alert. Peter—the older gentleman, about 70 years old—had a mini challenge where they had to make bone china daisies, and he said, “It’s like trying to manipulate butter with sausages,” and he held up his hands and he’s got these little fat fingers. I loved that quote.
Jeremy Klavens
Very funny. I love him.
Mandy Kaplan
I don’t think they’re beautiful. I think people think they’re beautiful because of the work that goes in and how they’re made. The process is so interesting it makes people say they’re beautiful. I disagree. And particularly Alan’s… bathing technique, which ended up looking like diarrhea to me.
Jeremy Klavens
He used this yeast he made or brought from home. With Alan, he has to do something completely wacky, completely different, something he’s never done before. I didn’t love it.
Mandy Kaplan
I was not a fan of this episode. And then Siobhan said, “We’re not gonna send anyone home due to the weirdness of the week.” What was the weirdness?
Jeremy Klavens
They had to shut down because of COVID. They shut down for seven days or whatever, and everybody had to quarantine. They didn’t tell us why, but that’s why they said this week is kind of a wash, and they didn’t feel right sending anybody home due to that.
Mandy Kaplan
Gotcha. And I started to get annoyed with Siobhan and her over-the-top antics.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah. We can talk about her for sure.
Mandy Kaplan
I want to wait, because I want it to build. But I did start fast-forwarding those cutesy bits where she had a fruit basket on her head doing a character at the beginning. I was like, “Mm-mm.”
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
Episode five: Music Legends.
Jeremy Klavens
This is where they had to sculpt a bust, probably two or three feet high. They got to do Tom Jones, Dolly Parton, Shirley Bassey, Ed Sheeran, and Bruce Springsteen.
Mandy Kaplan
Bruce Springsteen. I thought it seemed like an unfair challenge. They are potters. They throw pottery. This was sculpting. An entirely different skill set.
Jeremy Klavens
It is still part of pottery. It’s hand building. It’s not like asking Top Chef contestants to fish. That would be like asking the potters to mine the clay. This is more like asking Top Chef chefs to bake—still in the area, just different. There’s throwing, slab building, and hand building. Some of these were very successful and some were really not.
Mandy Kaplan
It was pretty funny. Adam—and we haven’t mentioned Hannah, but she has big, beautiful curly brown hair—they could be siblings. Did you see them standing next to each other? They looked alike.
Jeremy Klavens
I guess they both had blue eyes.
Mandy Kaplan
Sal started crying and asked them to stop filming at one point. Were other seasons so teary? Or do you think the pandemic was making everybody emotional?
Jeremy Klavens
I’m sure that’s true. The next season, season five, is very emotional in many places too. It’s not uncommon, but I think this is the first time we really saw it.
Mandy Kaplan
It breaks your heart because Sal’s so lovely and she’s like, “I just can’t.” She doesn’t do it like a housewife. She’s kind and respectful, but it was sad.
Jeremy Klavens
I think that’s when she was having difficulty in the spot test—making the trumpet or something. She was frustrated.
Mandy Kaplan
They have her outside in a one-on-one interview and she walks away as she’s asked them to stop filming. She wasn’t even working on a piece at that moment.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
These busts: some looked busted, some actually busted. Ears missing. Not their best work.
Jeremy Klavens
Not a good showing. Although I thought Alan did really well with Bruce Springsteen and he ended up getting Potter of the Week.
Mandy Kaplan
Oh.
Jeremy Klavens
The hair looked great. And Sal’s Shirley Bassey—she did the hair in thin strips. It looked amazing. But a lot of the others were pretty failed.
Mandy Kaplan
No one is doubting their talent, even if they have a fail. Episode six: Terracotta. And I wrote, for the first time—here’s my Jiminy Glick moment of the week—why is it called throwing?
Jeremy Klavens
I don’t actually know. I assumed it was because you throw the clay down initially.
Mandy Kaplan
Can you say that again?
Jeremy Klavens
No, I’m wrong. It refers to the twisting and shaping action on the spinning wheel. It’s from an old English word. It’s not from throwing it down onto the wheel.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay. Here’s where I started really getting on Team Adam and getting mad. I wrote: I like Adam’s frieze the best. I always love his stuff, and I feel like he is not getting recognized.
Jeremy Klavens
That was the secondary challenge: you got six tiles of clay and had to make an image of your life. His was amazing: him and his fiancé on a boat on the sea, and this giant hot air balloon. Gorgeous. He got robbed.
Mandy Kaplan
He got robbed. And here’s where the hate comes out. I wrote: I officially hate McSweeney with all her “loves,” “lovies,” and “swallow my barf.” “Good girls.” I know that’s cultural, but it’s gross and patronizing, and I hate her.
Jeremy Klavens
She’s not my favorite. This is why I second-guess picking one of her seasons. The first three seasons are different hosts. The first host is lovely and wonderful and funny. The third host is wonderful too—maybe not that funny but lovely. Then Siobhan comes on. At first I liked her, and then I began to get annoyed. She has a condescending quality.
Mandy Kaplan
I said patronizing, but those are twins.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah. I think part of it is her upper-class accent. Who am I to say? But she has that looking-down-her-nose quality. And often she is literally looking down her nose. I started getting annoyed with her. In season five she breaks her leg and she’s replaced by a woman named Ellie—if you watch Ted Lasso season two, she plays Hannah Waddingham’s friend Sassy. She’s fantastic: charming, funny.
Mandy Kaplan
Do we think she showgirls’d and broke Siobhan’s leg?
Jeremy Klavens
Yes, I do.
Mandy Kaplan
That’s what I’m going with.
Jeremy Klavens
She replaces Siobhan, and I thought, “Thank God.” Then Siobhan comes back for the last two episodes, which is strange because she doesn’t know any of the people. Then season six she’s back. I’m sure she’s lovely, but I don’t care for her.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay, I’m glad we agree. Terracotta felt important because every single contestant’s piece broke. None of them successfully made the casserole dish with the top and whatever they were supposed to do.
Jeremy Klavens
That’s true.
Mandy Kaplan
So the challenge was ill-conceived and untenable. If all these talented people can’t get it together, I hope they revisit and tweak it—more time, more resources—so it’s not all about “well, this broke.” And while they were all breaking, I wrote: now it’s starting to feel like a Christopher Guest movie.
Jeremy Klavens
That’s funny. There is a little quality of those kinds of characters and setting in this series as a whole—this quirky world. Especially because they’re bubbled up. I also wonder: was that an instance where the kiln got messed up? But I don’t think that’s the case.
Mandy Kaplan
Terracotta was gripping. Then they did Animal Water Features. I didn’t have a ton to say about that one.
Jeremy Klavens
The only thing I want to say is I thought Adam’s octopus was amazing. Peter also made an octopus, which was great, but not as successful.
Mandy Kaplan
Did Adam win for his octopus?
Jeremy Klavens
No, he didn’t.
Mandy Kaplan
No, he did not.
Jeremy Klavens
But I didn’t necessarily think he was robbed because Jody won. She made this wolf sculpture that really looked like a wolf, howling at the moon, and the water shot up out of its mouth. It was a toss-up.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah.
Jeremy Klavens
I think Adam came in second.
Mandy Kaplan
Then we moved on to Acoma pots. Acoma? Acoma.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah, Acoma.
Mandy Kaplan
Did they just say “dung-fired seed pots”?
Jeremy Klavens
They did.
Mandy Kaplan
So they’re using dung.
Jeremy Klavens
Dried cow dung, I believe. That’s how Native Americans would make these pots: use dried dung and throw it in the fire.
Mandy Kaplan
Wow. That reminds me: now I know what I want to make for dinner.
Jeremy Klavens
Okay, good.
Mandy Kaplan
Go ahead.
Jeremy Klavens
This one was interesting because Alan did not adhere to the brief. They were supposed to honor the Acoma tradition. He went modern and made this angular origami-type pot. I appreciate him saying, “I want to make it how I want to make it,” but it was about honoring the tradition. That’s why I thought Adam was robbed again, because he did it in the tradition and it was beautiful.
Mandy Kaplan
That’s what I wrote. Now Rich calls everything “bang on,” and then it loses meaning the same way with Keith crying. If you’ve heard him say “bang on” a dozen times, and then you take your piece up—what do you know?
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah, but why can’t they all be bang on? Why can’t they all be incredible?
Mandy Kaplan
I just wish they gave him other words.
Jeremy Klavens
I think you’re a bad person.
Mandy Kaplan
I’m gonna send him a thesaurus. Then they did sinks. Pedestal sinks.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
And I wrote: okay, this whole show is going to pot. Chamber pot. Are you folks? That’s a wrap on the episode.
Jeremy Klavens
Folks, I’m sorry you had to hear that terrible joke.
Mandy Kaplan
How are they expected to know how to make a sink work?
Jeremy Klavens
I don’t know how much research they get, but my guess is they’re given instructions on technical things—how big to make the holes for faucets and the drain. I’m sure there’s prep work, because they mostly succeed. There are leaks because things crack, but all the plumbing generally works.
Mandy Kaplan
Right. Or a couple drips. I wrote: Hannah’s sink is a disaster. It feels weird for weird’s sake. It’s the Big Lebowski of sinks.
Jeremy Klavens
Hannah makes this sink that’s like a sculpture of a lady, but it almost looks like giant labia. That’s what goes on the wall—the pedestal part. It’s very strange and it doesn’t work. It cracks everywhere. She goes home for it.
Mandy Kaplan
Rightly so.
Jeremy Klavens
Peter made luggage.
Mandy Kaplan
I loved it. I thought he should have won.
Jeremy Klavens
I disagree.
Mandy Kaplan
Adam won, but I preferred the suitcases.
Jeremy Klavens
Adam won, finally. The suitcases were great.
Mandy Kaplan
He stacked one suitcase tall like the pedestal and then another horizontal on top like the basin. It was so creative and detailed.
Jeremy Klavens
It was very detailed: stitching, the luggage handle, the worn leather handle. Beautiful. But Adam’s was this gorgeous mermaid with individually painted scales. Stunning. And he finally won Potter of the Week.
Mandy Kaplan
Okay, he finally won. Then we’re at the finale where they had to do a 1920s party set: a punch bowl with cups and the ladle.
Jeremy Klavens
Yep. Art Deco.
Mandy Kaplan
The whole time I wrote: it has to be Adam. Adam’s amazing. It has to be Adam. Jody’s looks sloppy. Peter’s was a better concept, but in execution he lacked. It has to be Adam. I was obsessed.
Jeremy Klavens
Jody won. On this rewatch, I agree Jody should have won the challenge. Adam’s were really badly done. He made these almost diamond-shape carafes, very thin at the bottom so they were top-heavy and would be hard not to tip over. When you poured, they sloshed out. Jody’s had beautiful stoppers with that feather, that curved feather on top, and they poured beautifully. Her set was really well done.
Mandy Kaplan
La la la la la, I can’t hear you. I loved him.
Jeremy Klavens
Some of the paint was sloppy, but she said the originator of this style—Clara something—her style was a little wishy-washy in the colors and paint.
Mandy Kaplan
It’s hard to catch details when fast-forwarding. I only fast-forwarded the beginning monologues and the judges standing over a table talking. At times I sped up a little when I was like, “I get it, you’re in process,” and I wanted to get to the final presentation. These are like 50-minute episodes. It’s a lot.
Jeremy Klavens
You missed a lot of the good stuff.
Mandy Kaplan
And then Jody won. I liked Jody. I liked everyone except… the Y word. And then I wrote: wait, what’s the prize? Did I miss it?
Jeremy Klavens
No. The prize is that little trophy and some flowers and the title. There’s no money.
Mandy Kaplan
Wow. Maybe not money, but a chance to put your pieces in a gallery? A commission? Wow. Nothing.
Jeremy Klavens
I don’t believe so.
Mandy Kaplan
That settles it. I’m not going to apply.
Jeremy Klavens
Hmm.
Mandy Kaplan
I was so close. Did I miss any points that you wanted to make about your show and your love of this show?
Jeremy Klavens
The last thing I’ll say is it’s such a lovely, warm, homey, safe, comforting place to be. And so are you.
Mandy Kaplan
And so are you.
Jeremy Klavens
And the same is true with Bake Off. There’s something down to the music they use—early 80s Brit rock kind of stuff. It was a little more rockabilly in the first couple seasons. I just want to go hang out with them and be there. I love it. It has inspired me to try more pottery.
Mandy Kaplan
That’s great.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan
I love that for you. Well, I love that you were on my podcast. Thank you for being here.
Jeremy Klavens
I love it too.
Mandy Kaplan
And I love that you’re all listening. And I love that I can tell you that Make Me a Nerd is a production of TruStory FM, engineering by the peerless Pete Wright. I have a theme song, “Wonderstruck,” by Jane and the Boy. You can reach me on social media at mandy_kaplan_klavens on Instagram, or on TikTok at MandyMiscast. I love getting to do this with you, Jer, and hopefully I’ll talk to you again in six more months to a year when you come back.
Jeremy Klavens
Yeah. It was nice to get to spend some time with you.
Mandy Kaplan
Yeah. All right.
Jeremy Klavens
All right.
Mandy Kaplan
Thanks, everybody.
Jeremy Klavens
What’s for dinner?
