Discord Mom Melissa Bacheler is here! And she brings a … what’s that? A GAME SHOW pitting Pete and Nikki against one another to the bitter end? Plus questions from listeners about focus and tab overload and what we would do at the end of the world! Join us for our very last episode of 2022!
Along the way, we answer YOUR questions: what’s the value of coaching for ADHD? What do you do when your tabs are overloading your browsers? What do you do if the electrical grid fails? How do you focus at work? How do you overcome test stress in college? What does it take to settle on task AND project management tools? CAKE OR PIE?? These are huge questions that merit serious reflection and we’re taking them on today.
Thanks to TextExpander for once again sponsoring this show!
Episode Transcript
Brought to you by The ADHD Podcast Community on Patreon
Nikki Kinzer:
Not today, today’s going to be a good day.
Pete Wright:
Hello everybody and welcome to Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast on True Story FM. I’m Pete Wright and right over there is Grumpy Nicki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer:
I am not grumpy.
Pete Wright:
Grumpy. Oh my goodness.
Nikki Kinzer:
I’m just trying to figure out this whole like am I looking at you? Do I look at me? Do I look at the notes? Where am I? What am I doing?
Pete Wright:
There’s just a lot.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
It is. It’s a lot. And we’re trying this whole new streaming platform we’re trying out streamyard-
Nikki Kinzer:
I’m really happy it.
Pete Wright:
It’s really fun. Yeah. Look how happy you are.
Nikki Kinzer:
I’m so happy
Pete Wright:
Jubilant. Jubilant.
Nikki Kinzer:
It’s [inaudible 00:00:45].
Pete Wright:
You and I are here for the big final episode of the season, of season 25, and of the year. We’re very excited about that, but we actually have a sneaky, sneaky, super sneaky guest.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, we do.
Pete Wright:
She’s here, but she can’t say anything yet. Do you have anything you want to say about her before she can respond?
Nikki Kinzer:
She’s fantastic.
Pete Wright:
Yeah she is.
Nikki Kinzer:
Amazing.
Pete Wright:
Fantastic. Smart, funny. Super funny.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Capable. Oh, all the things.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. She has ADHD.
Pete Wright:
Ugh, like a champ with the adhd. All right, let’s bring her in. It’s Melissa Bacheler. Discord mom. Hi Melissa.
Melissa Bacheler:
Hello. I heard what you guys were saying about me.
Pete Wright:
I prefer you right in the middle so you’re sandwiched by nice things.
Melissa Bacheler:
Aw, that’s nice. I like it.
Pete Wright:
This is not the first time you’ve been on the podcast you’ve been on.
Melissa Bacheler:
No.
Pete Wright:
So people know you. They definitely know you from the internet. This is Melissa from the internet.
Melissa Bacheler:
That sounds awful.
Pete Wright:
From Discord.
Nikki Kinzer:
Discord Mom.
Pete Wright:
This is Discord mom and Melissa has orchestrated our Fun Times challenge today and will be essentially MCing the episode. Is that a fair way to put it? You’re going to MC.
Melissa Bacheler:
Yes. At least part of it.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
So you’re the Jerry Lewis of this episode. Throwback Telephone Humor. Nobody remembers. Okay, so we’re going to get into that very soon. But before we do that, we got to tell you some things.
We want you to head over to Take Control ADHD. And when you get there, you can get to know us a little bit better. You can listen to the show right there on the website, or subscribe to the mailing list on the homepage and get an email when the latest episode is released each week.
You can connect with us on Facebook or Instagram or Pinterest at Take Control ADHD. But to really connect with us, join us in the ADHD Discord community. It’s super, super easy to jump in the General Community chat channel. Just visit Take ControlADHD.com/discord and you’ll be whisked over to the general invitation and log in.
If you’re looking for a little more, particularly if this show has ever touched you or helped you understand your relationship with ADHD in a new way, we invite you to support the show directly through Patreon.
Patreon is listener supported podcasting, and when you join the community, you pledge a few dollars a month and by doing that, you guarantee that we continue to grow the show, add new features, and invest more heavily in our community.
To learn more, just visit patreon.com/theADHDpodcast. Thank you everybody for your support this year. Nikki. We have some news.
Nikki Kinzer:
We have some news. So I want to remind everyone that GPS, the Guided Planning Sessions membership is open for enrollment right now at this very moment and it will close on January 2nd.
So if you are interested in figuring out a system around your calendar, task management, having some information around prioritizing accountability, having the space to actually do the planning, if this sounds like anything you might be interested in, please, please visit the website at take control ADHD and visit the GPS page because it has all of the information about the different benefits that come with the membership.
And we would love to have you join us in this next cohort. This is not something that I offer on an ongoing basis. We’re only offering it a couple of times a year. So if you’re listening to this and it’s open, then please go sign up. If you have any questions, you can always email me. And if it’s closed, put yourself on the waiting list because those people are the first to know when it opens up again.
So if you happen to be listening to this after the fact, you can still go on and put yourself on the waiting list and we will get into contact with you as soon as we can when it opens again. So there you have it.
Pete Wright:
Takecontroladhd.com/gps. It’s very, very easy.
Nikki Kinzer:
Slash Gps, very easy.
Pete Wright:
Slash gps. Very, very easy. Okay.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, yes, yes.
Pete Wright:
Then I guess it’s back to my turn for some news because you know what time it is, don’t you, Nikki? You know what time it is?
Nikki Kinzer:
Time to cook?
Pete Wright:
It’s text expander time.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh.
Pete Wright:
It’s always Text Expander time,
Nikki Kinzer:
Time to Text Expander.
Pete Wright:
Oh my gosh. You’d think after doing this all year, you might know what time it always is. And let me tell you, so we always talk about text expander in terms of what you could do with more time each day, each week, each month.
But today’s subject comes directly from my experience yesterday and how grateful I am for Text Expander because I have a lot of snippets in Text Expander.
Text Expander, you know what Text Expander is? You put your snippets, frequently typed text in the Text Expander library. And then when you expand that text by typing just a few short keystrokes, it expands to whatever that was, whether it’s a sentence or a username or a date or some kind of calculation or entire paragraphs of text. You type a few keys and your text then populates.
For me, my favorite feature today, I lost my entire computer yesterday because I borked it myself. I did something stupid and I lost everything and had to reinstall from scratch. And I cannot tell you how grateful I am that Text Expander Library is cloud-based and it syncs with all of my devices, whether it’s on my Mac or my Windows machine or Chrome or iPad, os iOS.
The fact that I could just download the Text Expander app and see all of my work that I had previously saved there so quickly and get right back to the business and right back to all of the moves that are so programmed into my fingertips.
I know my snippets and when Text Expander isn’t there, I feel naked. It’s like not putting your watch on in the morning or not having your phone in your pocket. You’re just nude all day. That is a computer without Text Expander for me. And it is incredibly powerful. You keep your message consistent, you save time, and you be more productive and you’re accurate every time.
The way we work is changing rapidly-
Nikki Kinzer:
And you stay warm.
Pete Wright:
Make work, work. You stay warm, you’re not naked. Make work, work the way your brain works by saying more in less time and less effort using Text Expander. And here’s all you have to do.
You can get a whole year of service with 20% off. All you got to do is visit TakeControladhd.com/textexpander. That will whisk you over to the Text Expander signup page for you where sign up. The 20% off will already be applied. Just takecontroladhd.com/textexpander.
I have been getting messages. I know there are people out there who are actually using December, the time of cleanup and kind of getting systems organized. Things are slowing down. People are writing me asking, “Hey, where can I credit Take Control ADHD for my signup.” It’s takecontroladhd.com/textexpander. It is fantastic and so easy. Thank you to Text Expander for sponsoring this show.
All right, let’s get to the business. Melissa.
Melissa Bacheler:
Hello everyone. It is Time to Play Who is Your Co-host, Anyway? I am your host Melissa, or better known to our listeners as Discord Mom.
On today’s show, we have the hosts of Taking Control: The ADHD podcast, Nikki Kinzer and Pete Wright. Welcome contestants.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yay. Hello.
Melissa Bacheler:
Oh, we’re so glad to have you.
Nikki Kinzer:
We’re happy to be here. At least I am. I can’t speak for Pete.
Pete Wright:
I’m nervous to be here. Yeah, no. I’m definitely nervous to be here.
Melissa Bacheler:
We’re here to play the game. Who’s Your Co-host, Anyway that I already said if you were listening. Here’s how the game works.
Earlier we asked our contestants a series of questions about themselves. Today we are going to be asking those same questions to the other person to gauge how well they think they know their podcast co-host. Each correct answer will award you a series of points and at the end of the game we will learn who knows their co-host best.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh boy.
Melissa Bacheler:
[inaudible 00:09:07]
Pete Wright:
Wait so the questions you asked me are the same questions you asked Nikki? The same questions, even number two?
Melissa Bacheler:
Oh no, they’re completely different. You have no idea what we’ll be asking you.
Pete Wright:
Oh, okay.
Melissa Bacheler:
Oh all right.
Pete Wright:
That’s good. That’s what I want to make sure, because number two is pretty specific to me and I would be surprised if she also did that thing. Okay, let’s go ahead. This is going to be great. Very exciting.
Melissa Bacheler:
Okay, so to decide who goes first, I would like each of you to choose a number between 1 and 20. And I will roll a 20-sided die and whoever is closer to the number that I roll will go first.
Pete Wright:
Okay. 17.
Melissa Bacheler:
Pete, pick a number. 17. All right.
Nikki Kinzer:
10.
Melissa Bacheler:
And 10. All right, let’s roll the dice and see. And I rolled a 10. That means Nikki goes first.
Pete Wright:
Oh wow.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh dear. Okay, here we go.
Melissa Bacheler:
You may not know Pete very well, but you seem to know my dice very well.
Nikki Kinzer:
Thank you.
Melissa Bacheler:
All right, so Nikki, for the first question. For one point. What is Pete Wright’s full birthday? We’re going to need month, day, and year.
Nikki Kinzer:
November 20th, 1972.
Melissa Bacheler:
You’re correct.
Pete Wright:
Crap.
Nikki Kinzer:
Thank you.
Melissa Bacheler:
Crap? Are you upset that she knows your birthday, Pete?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, I am real upset.
Melissa Bacheler:
Oh, so I even have a scoreboard here.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, look.
Melissa Bacheler:
Because of my ring light. But-
Nikki Kinzer:
Nice.
Melissa Bacheler:
That Nikki Kinzer… This is hard to do backwards. Gets one point. Yay.
Nikki Kinzer:
Hooray! One point for Nikki.
Melissa Bacheler:
All right, now we’re going to move on to Pete. Pete Wright. What is Nikki Kinzer’s full birthdate?
Pete Wright:
I think it’s October sometime? Maybe September-y. It’s in the fall of 1971.
Melissa Bacheler:
Going to need an answer.
Pete Wright:
Fall 1971. That’s my answer. It’s Fall 1971. That’s all I got. I don’t remember.
Melissa Bacheler:
Oh, this is where the audience would go, “Oh.”
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh.
Melissa Bacheler:
As the buzzer sounds because that was incorrect. We were looking for September 7th, 1972.
Pete Wright:
’72, really? We’re that close?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, yeah. I’m not a whole year older than you, Pete.
Pete Wright:
Okay, okay.
Nikki Kinzer:
I just turned 50.
Pete Wright:
You just present so much more mature. That’s what it is. You’re such a grown up.
Nikki Kinzer:
For sure.
Melissa Bacheler:
I would like to say now-
Nikki Kinzer:
Can I say something?
Melissa Bacheler:
Yes.
Nikki Kinzer:
That I kind of cheated because when I saw that as my question, because you asked me what my birthday was, I looked to make sure that I knew when Pete’s was just in case you were to ask.
Pete Wright:
Ugh nerve. My own co-host.
Nikki Kinzer:
I knew it was in November and I knew it was in 1972, but I didn’t know the exact date. So can I have a half a point?
Melissa Bacheler:
When did you look?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yesterday?
Melissa Bacheler:
That was before the game show. That is completely legal.
Pete Wright:
What?
Melissa Bacheler:
OK, good.
Pete Wright:
What?
Nikki Kinzer:
Thank you.
Pete Wright:
She’s so honest and declares her own malfeasance and you still let her get a point? [inaudible 00:12:25].
Unbelievable.
Nikki Kinzer:
This is like turning in money you find on the street and being given a reward.
Pete Wright:
This is the hanging Chad of game shows. That’s what it’s called.
Nikki Kinzer:
All right, moving on. Okay, let’s keep going. I have a point. Pete doesn’t. Go ahead Melissa.
Melissa Bacheler:
The employees and subsidiaries of Who’s Your Co-host, Anyway are not responsible for any upset feelings or arguments that may result from this game.
Pete Wright:
I’m already writing a sternly worded letter. What is number two?
Melissa Bacheler:
All right, number two is for Nikki. We have one… This one is for one point as well. Who would Pete Wright’s number one dream guest be on the ADHD podcast?
Nikki Kinzer:
His dream co-host or not or not co-host [inaudible 00:13:15]. Dream guest. Oh boy. It would be probably somebody really techy like the founder of Text Expander. There you go. That’s my answer.
Melissa Bacheler:
That is a great answer. It is also wrong. So, Pete’s answer was Prince. He did elaborate. He said, yes, he is dead, but he probably had ADHD and he’s a dream guest.
Pete Wright:
[inaudible 00:13:56] Y’all.
Nikki Kinzer:
Okay. All right. I wouldn’t have gone with someone who was dead, but that’s all right. Okay.
Pete Wright:
Dream guest. It was an open field.
Nikki Kinzer:
There you go. That’s true.
Melissa Bacheler:
We did not specify alive or not.
Nikki Kinzer:
You did not though.
Pete Wright:
Nope.
Melissa Bacheler:
All right. Pete, for one point, who would Nikki’s number one dream guest be on the ADHD podcast?
Pete Wright:
I have no other choice but to play Jason Mraz, only because I feel like she just wants to get closer to him at any given point.
Nikki Kinzer:
That’s a good answer.
Pete Wright:
But?
Melissa Bacheler:
It’s also incorrect.
Nikki Kinzer:
It’s also wrong.
Melissa Bacheler:
Nikki’s answer was Mel Robbins.
Nikki Kinzer:
Which I knew you would never guess.
Pete Wright:
Who Is Mel Rob… I don’t even know who Mel Robbins is.
Nikki Kinzer:
She is… She has a podcast. She has a book. She’s like… I follow her on Instagram. So she’s very inspirational. Kind of like a Tony of Tony Robbins, right. But she has ADHD.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Nikki Kinzer:
So it’d be really interesting to me to interview her around her message and ADHD. I knew you would not get that, and I almost said Jason Mraz. So you were close, but you still got it wrong.
Pete Wright:
Well, I’m sure according to the fly by night rules of this game show, I will not get a half a point for intention.
Nikki Kinzer:
No, I don’t think so.
Pete Wright:
No.
Nikki Kinzer:
Sorry.
Melissa Bacheler:
The employees and subsidiaries of Who’s Your Co-host Anyway, do not appreciate the shade.
Pete Wright:
The shade.
Melissa Bacheler:
All right, we’re back to Nikki. For one point. In this question, we tested Pete’s physical prowess. Would Pete rather fight one elephant-sized frog or 50 frog-sized elephants?
Nikki Kinzer:
I’m going to say one elephant-sized frog.
Melissa Bacheler:
Well.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Melissa Bacheler:
You had a 50/50 chance of being correct and you were not.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, dang
Melissa Bacheler:
Verbatim. Pete’s response was, “Oh God, 50 frog-size elephants. Are you kidding me? An elephant-size frog is a dinosaur. No way.”
Nikki Kinzer:
That’s good. That’s good. All right.
Melissa Bacheler:
We’re back to Pete. Currently, just an update on the score. Nikki has one point, and Pete has yet to get on the board. There’s still time.
Pete Wright:
Hey, thanks for the update.
Melissa Bacheler:
Pete, this next question is for you. For one point we asked Nikki, if there were an alternate reality where you, Pete did not follow your current reality life path of entering the world of journalism and podcasting, what career would you be good at? How do you think Nikki responded?
Pete Wright:
Wow, that’s a good question. No journalism. No podcasting. I imagine I want to say something completely like join the circus or something. Like it’d be completely outside my row, like astronaut.
But my hunch is she took it a little bit more seriously than that. And, maybe adventure photographer.
Melissa Bacheler:
Unfortunately, that is incorrect. And if you had gone with your first instinct of circus performer, I would have accepted that because Nikki’s response was an actor or entertainer.
Pete Wright:
Oh my God.
Nikki Kinzer:
And then this morning I was thinking about that question, and I almost wanted to ask Melissa if I could change my answer to a Director. I could see you directing films too. So something in the industry, film industry. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
That would’ve been very close. Would’ve been very, very close. Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
Circus performer entertainer.
Pete Wright:
All right.
Melissa Bacheler:
Well, acapella singer. It’s a singer.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Melissa Bacheler:
Also also would’ve been a great answer.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Melissa Bacheler:
So far we have asked our contestants three questions a piece, and it doesn’t seem like they know their co-host all that well. But we do have more questions to ask our co-hosts after we take a break to hear a few questions for our co-hosts that have been sent in from the listeners of the ADHD podcast.
Nikki Kinzer:
All right.
Melissa Bacheler:
Patreon subscribers can tune in after the podcast to catch the second half of our game show and learn who actually knows their co-host best.
If you’re not currently a Patreon subscriber, you can head over to patreon.com/theADHDpodcast to learn more and subscribe so you can hear the rest of the game show.
Pete Wright:
Such no a pro.
Nikki Kinzer:
There you go.
Pete Wright:
What a pro.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes. Woo-hoo. Pete, we got to do better.
Pete Wright:
I know. Melissa’s coming for both our jobs.
Nikki Kinzer:
I know. No kidding.
Pete Wright:
Okay, so I think, Melissa, I think since you’re here, you should tee up the questions.
Melissa Bacheler:
Oh, dang. All right. You guys are really putting me to work today.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, we are.
Pete Wright:
That’s right.
Melissa Bacheler:
That’s all right. That’s kind of my job. All right, so we got some great questions from our listeners. Thank you everybody who submitted them. So we’re going to start off with our first question. What are your thoughts on ADHD coaching as a resource for managing ADHD?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, being that I am an ADHD coach, I do think it’s a very important piece of the overall management of ADHD.
So of course, I’m a big believer in coaching. I think it’s a terrific resource. I definitely think, as I’ve said in the show before, there’s this puzzle that happens when you’re navigating your ADHD. And coaching is one part of that puzzle, as medication is a piece, therapy is a piece. There’s a lot of different strategies, things like that, that are all pieces around navigating and managing your ADHD.
Coaching is different than therapy. So I think it’s important that people understand that there is a difference. Coaching is more focused forward, it’s more goal oriented. You definitely have to be in a place to receive information around your ADHD to better understand it.
Coaching allows the space to have acceptance around your ADHD, because now that you kind of understand more about how it affects you, you can learn more about how to work with it rather than against it.
And so a lot of those strategies and things, systems that we build happen in coaching, where therapy can be a little bit more of the emotional piece, more around your past and how you’re dealing with those kinds of things that could be trauma related or things that are more therapeutic conversations.
It’s not always an affordable piece for some people. So I suggest that if you can’t afford an ADHD coach to definitely still look into group coaching, which is sometimes, well most of the time will be not as expensive, support groups around your town or city.
Chad has a lot of different support groups that are free, newer coaches that are looking for hours to get certified is always a good place to go to. And then of course, finding your community, your ADHD community, like ours with Patreon. And ADA is a great organization that has a lot of different support groups for adults with ADHD.
So it’s a piece of it and I definitely think it’s a great resource and yeah, I highly recommend it guys.
Pete Wright:
Oh, surprising everybody. Nikki Kinzer is a bull on coaching.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes. Yes, I am.
Pete Wright:
I don’t really have anything to add to that other than… I think you just said it’s the practical side, it’s the actual living skills side of living with ADHD, and I think it’s incredibly important.
So ADHD coaching is a resource for managing. It is really centrally a resource for managing ADHD, like above-
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
All of the sensory stuff that you deal with, with medication and mindfulness and all that stuff. So yeah, it’s huge.
Melissa Bacheler:
Our next question comes from someone who says:
“I enjoyed your tech-vember series and I wondered if you had thoughts on browser tab overload. To be clear, I don’t think this can be solved with tools alone. I have Toby, One Tab, Tab Limiter, multiple Chrome profiles, and I still have 50 tabs open. It seems very similar to the email overload problem with a couple major differences. First, old tabs don’t roll off the screen.”
“They hang around forever making it harder to find what you’re currently focusing on. You can also open these tabs yourself so you can’t delegate, and you can’t go back to your boss and ask them to prioritize things for you. I think that this is all due to unfinished shopping or research due to indecision, poor organization, being unsure what to do with interesting things, knowing that if I bookmark them, they disappear forever.”
“Giving myself more stuff to do while procrastinating, like saying, ‘I’ll read this later.’ Or no integrated to-do list system, so these unfinished tasks just hang around forever. I’m curious how you would approach this problem. I’m a bit overwhelmed and can’t figure out where to start.”
Pete Wright:
Surprising maybe everybody. I do have thoughts. Nikki, would I be interrupting you?
Nikki Kinzer:
And I’m giving this to you, Pete. I have no thoughts on this.
Pete Wright:
I don’t want to step all over your brilliant ideas, but I do have some thoughts. My first is just in the spirit of no judgment, right? Let’s just stop and ask what is the problem with having a lot of tabs?
Because I know a lot of people who just forgiven themselves for saying, “I’ve got a lot of tabs. And sometimes they get really cluttered and sometimes I have to restart and I lose a bunch of stuff.”
And maybe that’s okay. Maybe it’s just the way you use your computer. And it used to be the thing where having a lot of open tabs would really slow things down. You couldn’t functionally use your browser. And if you are on an older system, you might still kind of experience that you need to close tabs because they’re a disaster for your just general operation of the device. But it’s less so on newer things. And so I don’t think that’s a huge problem.
I think the real issue, if you find it’s a problem, I think the real issue is trying to solve it with tab management tools because to my mind, that’s not the problem. The problem is the behavior of opening tabs and not considering those tabs just another incoming signal.
Your browser is just another inbox. And remember, my theory on inbox is you’ve got to have one of them. So that incoming signal, when you have an open tab, it’s part of a project or a task that you have to schedule time to do. Where does it go? It goes into your task management system. So the way I deal with this personally is I happen to have a shortcut set up for my browser where I just say, “Okay, here’s a tab, it’s related to a project.”
I click the little, for me, the little button in my tab bar that sends the tab to Todoist and it sends the link into Todoist where I can write a little note, paste any information in there, and then I can schedule that for when I’m going to come back to it.
And so I don’t have a library of 50 different tabs. I don’t have to have multiple profiles because every single tab that I open goes into the work project that I’m working on related to that tab. And when I’m finished with it, I close it.
Now, that might not work for everybody, but I would just offer that maybe tab management tools like One Tab and Toby and all those, aren’t the tools that you should be looking at to help solve your tab problem.
Really focus on those tabs as you would any other piece of information, whether it’s a PDF or a link to an email or some other document that comes in that you need to deal that. So is the website that is associated with that tab. Treat it like any other bit of information. And I think you’ll find you clean that up. I don’t know what did… Did I miss anything, you guys?
Nikki Kinzer:
No, I think it makes perfect sense. And I think looking at it that way is really helpful to see it as something that’s incoming that you need to process. I like that angle of it.
Pete Wright:
And I mean, even down to unfinished shopping, I have a shopping list in Todoist and I have it actually broken up by section, by person. And so if I have an incoming tab of something that I see online, or I find it on social or somewhere, I just send it to the Todoist. And then when it comes time to shop for somebody’s birthday or Christmas, I go to their list and I see all the things that I dropped in there. And I don’t have to worry about indecision because it’s all right there. It doesn’t have to sit there for three months in my open tabs list where I’ll forget the relevance of it in no time, right. No?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, I think you hit something there, right? Because I’m wondering if the fear is, “I need to keep this open so I don’t forget about it?”
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
But when you have a hundred tabs open, you’re not remembering it. It’s not an effective way to remember something.
Pete Wright:
I think so.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, yeah. That’s interesting. Good. I like it, Pete. I always learn something from you when it’s tech related. I appreciate that.
Pete Wright:
Well, I hope so. I hope so.
Melissa Bacheler:
All right, let’s move on to our next question. This is also a tech related question for Pete. It says, “It’s no secret that Pete Wright loves his tech. My question for Pete deals with a hypothetical situation. Picture this…” Pete, I think you should close your eyes for this. Really, really get a good picture.
Pete Wright:
Okay. All right. Really get in.
Melissa Bacheler:
“It’s December 31st, 2022 at 11:59 PM. The ball is dropping, midnight. Happy New Year, except what’s that? Nationwide power outage. For whatever reason, the U.S. Seems to be experiencing the nightmare scenario that was predicted for Y2K. There is no more electricity. No one knows how long it’s going to last or if the power will ever come back. Can Pete Wright survive this apocalyptic scenario?”
Pete Wright:
I think because that is a binary question that you asked, I’ll give you a binary answer. No, I don’t think Pete Wright can survive that, but for many reasons. But let’s be honest, like zombie apocalypse, I’m the guy just going to run into the crowd of zombies. Let’s just end it quickly because I just don’t have a lot of patience for survival skills. I’m just not made for that. I don’t think I am.
The other part of the question, if you take the apocalypse out of it, let’s say there is a massive crash of systems and I lose a bunch of data. If I know anything about humans and organizational systems, like we rebuild.
I am a huge optimist on rebuilding systems. And if I lose a lot of data, I start collecting data again. I just start over and I recognize and give myself permission to know that I’ve lost things and I’m going to have to figure that out. And I’m going to have to figure out what to do with myself. It might cause me to change gears.
And I think I learned that when I had my photo apocalypse, when my entire photography career of a hundred thousand images was decimated in equipment failure, that I hadn’t backed up because of equipment failure. And I realized that data is ephemeral even when it’s saved on multiple hard disks and multiple cloud services. It could be lost at any minute and I have to be okay with that.
And that was a hard lesson, a very depressing lesson to learn. And it was because of just my bent. But so much of my behavior around how I organize my data on my computer is because I love organizing my data on my computer, and not because I really need to keep all that data forever and ever. It’s because it’s part of my personality. It’s how my brain works. If things are lost, I build new systems because that’s how my brain works. I build new systems.
Nikki Kinzer:
That’s fantastic.
Melissa Bacheler:
I like that.
Nikki Kinzer:
I love answer.
Melissa Bacheler:
I love that you turned a silly question into a thoughtful response.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Oh, thank you.
Melissa Bacheler:
Focusing at work is hard. Don’t I know it.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yep, it is.
Melissa Bacheler:
Some days are better than others.
Nikki Kinzer:
True.
Melissa Bacheler:
What is a good strategy to employ for those tough days when your brain just wants to look at everything but work?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes. So boy, we have those days, and especially with ADHD, I think that I will talk to clients and they’ll talk about how some days ADHD is louder than other days. I think if you’re having a really hard time at work and focus is the issue, acceptance. Accepting that, hey, this is difficult right now. So if you keep trying to focus, the harder you try to focus, the harder it’s going to be to focus.
So I would say at this point, take a break, take a little bit of a break and get outside and breathe. Get some exercise. Get something to get that dopamine hit, right? Talk to your accountability partner and let them know what you’re going to work on so that you have an accountability partner to help you and check in with you, that can make a big difference.
So I would say that when you’re having a tough time, look at what strategies you have in your toolbox and do one of them and see if it can help break that moment of wanting to do everything but work.
The other thing I think, is that it’s really common for ADHD-ers to have a really productive day and then the next day not be productive. And so know that that’s kind of a normal thing to have happen because you know you’ve spent your energy and so now you’re sort of on that downfall of recuperating from the high productive day yesterday.
So that’s where the acceptance comes in and just says, “Okay, you know what? It’s okay. I had a great day yesterday. Maybe I set a realistic goal of maybe one thing to do before the work day.” Just so you can feel like you did something. But sometimes you just have to throw your hands in the air and say, I’m done for today and I’m going to start again tomorrow. And that’s a-okay.
Pete Wright:
I agree with that. I think that the one thing that strikes me that I feel like that the people who know me, and know my ADHD, and also live with ADHD do well, is that they will tell me, “Hey, your inability to focus right now is impacting my inability to focus, or my ability to focus.”
And so sometimes you need people, when you talk about accountability partners, you need people who are not afraid to tell you, “Hey, this is what you’re doing right now and you need to know that that’s what you’re doing.” Because sometimes I don’t even know that I’m not focusing because I’m so into what I’m looking at, you know what I’m saying? That make any sense?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, absolutely.
Pete Wright:
I think it’s reciprocal. Practicing that behavior yourself with others makes you more willing a recipient when somebody does it to you. I would just add that.
Nikki Kinzer:
There’s something that came to mind when Steve Jobs had this quote, and I’m going to probably mess it up, but it’s one of my favorite quotes about going to bed one step closer to your goal. And that’s what I would kind of look at, is what’s one thing I could do so that I can go to bed peacefully and not with regret, but just one thing. One thing that will get me closer.
Pete Wright:
For sure. For sure.
Nikki Kinzer:
And then. Goodnight.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Sleep tight.
Nikki Kinzer:
This day is over.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right. This broadcast day is over. Fuzz.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes. Yeah.
Melissa Bacheler:
Any self-confidence tips for college students who struggle studying for exams? It seems like they struggle mostly because they’re never happy, however long or hard that they try or that they fail exams because they overthink everything. It feels like an ADHD trap of perfectionism and low self esteem.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes. I’ll start with this one and then I’ll be interested to hear what you have to say Pete, as being a past professor. Professor Pete. So couple of things with college students that have ADHD.
First thing I would say is if you do not have accommodations, I highly recommend that you sign up for them ASAP. One of the accommodations that you can have that is really helpful around test taking, is you can take the test in a different location so you’re not distracted by the people that are around you. Are they getting the test done quicker than you are? Are you too slow? You don’t have to worry about any of that anxiety.
You can take it in a separate place. You can also have extended time on a test, which can be very helpful for you not to have to rush where you can actually double-check your answers and take the time you need to finish the exam.
So those are a couple of accommodations that can help with test taking. But get them, even if you don’t feel like you need them, you may need them at some point and they are there for support. Talk to your professors.
If you realize after the first midterm, or first paper that you turned in that you didn’t do very well, especially if you did spend a lot of time studying for it, highly recommend that you go into the professor’s office hours and talk to them about it.
Tell them how you study, tell them what you did to prepare, and then ask their advice on how to improve that or what to focus on. And that can kind of curve a little bit of if you’re taking too long on something. But definitely have that open communication with your professor. All of these things will, I hope, build your confidence in time as you notice that you’re starting to get better grades.
Limit your classes. So I think that there’s a big deal for ADHD-er that I think sometimes we get in this trap of, oh, you have to graduate in four years. You have to take 16 credits. You know what? Take three classes. Maybe you graduate in five years, but it will be worth it because you’re not going to be as stressed. You’re not going to have to transition for four different classes. Even dropping just one can make a big difference.
So I would look at how many classes, the class load that you’re taking. How hard the classes are that you’re taking. Use student resources. Most universities and colleges have student services to help you. They have coaches, they have study groups, they have classes that you can take on how to study, how to manage your time. Definitely take advantage of those things because it’s not easy and it’s not set up in an ADHD-friendly way. So it’s important that you advocate for yourself and find out what works best for you.
And the last thing I would have to say is just continue with a growth mindset. We’ve talked about that a lot in the past, but it’s really important, I think, in college or any kind of school setting, learn from what you’ve happening. If you failed, okay, learn from it. Figure out how you can change that and really just keep growing and looking for the resources that you need. Because there is a lot of support out there and you just need to find it.
Pete Wright:
All of that. And the thing that sticks out to me here is that they struggle mostly because they are never happy, however long or hard they try. And I think it’s important to at least consider whether happiness is the goal during your studies. Happiness is an outcome, but if you are striving to find a system that will allow you to do hard work and be happy at the same time, that, I think, is the frustration connection.
When overwhelm meets reality. You’re not going to be happy when you’re doing the work. It’s going to be hard work and it will hurt and it will cause late nights and it will be struggle. And that’s okay. It’s supposed to. You make the choice to go to college, it’s supposed to be hard work, it’s supposed to challenge you. And the happiness comes after you do the hard work and are able to reflect on the journey.
Happiness is a result of the journey and it’s okay not to be happy during the process. I think happiness is a loaded word, and applying that filter to the college experience, I think, it risks leading to kind of an entitlement culture.
This class doesn’t make me happy, so I’m going to drop it. And I think that’s a mistake. You got to know-
Nikki Kinzer:
That’s a really good point.
Pete Wright:
Things are hard. School is hard and if you go in with hard work is… Like happiness is the result of the hard work, then the hard work not making you happy won’t be so painful.
I think the other piece, apart from yes, make use of the entitlements and definitely if you can afford it, definitely take fewer classes at a time. The other thing to remember, and this goes into, I think I’m reading ahead a little bit, but it goes into the next question, that there is not one system that is going to allow you to succeed at all your classes all the time.
And going in with that as an assumption that you can somehow find a system that will work long-term for you, getting through your entire college experience, is also a fool’s errand. Your systems will change.
Be ready to adapt to that and use your ability to focus on one thing deeply as a gift and then know that sometimes it’s going to be distraction. And I think if you give yourself permission to think about the fact that things will be hard, you will be distracted and you’re going to have to make use of all the tools, not just one tool. I think you have a better experience at achieving happiness when you’re done. I don’t know, am I being too hard edged about that?
Nikki Kinzer:
No, I love that you picked up on that distinction and noticed the happy piece of it. Yeah, no, I think that’s great.
Melissa Bacheler:
Is there any way to stick with a system that will work for both project management and task management? Currently, I’m playing around with Obsidian, Craft and OmniFocus and some command line… Is that utilities Pete?
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Melissa Bacheler:
Okay. From Brett Turkstra and haven’t landed on anything.
Pete Wright:
Well, good choices, all of them. And I think this is the peril of ADHD system selection, it’s hard. And is there a way to stick with a system? I’ve never found it. I have a system. I have a system that’s working for me right now, but-
Nikki Kinzer:
It could change.
Pete Wright:
I lay heavy odds on that system changing, as tools change, as my workflow changes, as the demands on my brain change. This one is probably the longest that has stuck in any way, shape or form right now, the system I use, which is Fantastic How, Todoist and Obsidian… Or obsidian and Devin Think for my long-term library, but that is, I make no assumption anymore as many years as I’ve been doing it.
I make no assumption that that system is going to stick with me for the long term. That being more than the next six months. It is constantly in flux. And I think if there’s anything that my lots of years looking for systems has taught me, even though not as quite as many years as Nikki, because she’s so much more mature than I am, is that-
Nikki Kinzer:
Apparently by a whole year,
Pete Wright:
By a whole year. Systems are going to change. And that is both the curse of systems and also the blessing of these fantastic tools that we have to be able to test and play with.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
And I see that part as a gift and the exploration is the fun part. So I would add one-
Nikki Kinzer:
And the work changes.
Pete Wright:
Yeah and the work changes. I would add one thing to that that I think is important. In all of your explorations of systems, future-proof them by making sure that you’re not locked into any particular format.
That’s why I love Obsidian because it’s all text and I can take those text files from my system explorer and I can move them to any other system that I want because plain text is future-proof. Craft lets you get your stuff in and out of its system, even though it’s not as easy as drag and drop. You can download all of your stuff as plain text.
Omnifocus, it also has… You can export all of your tasks as an interoperable, comma, separated value, like plain text spreadsheet of all of your work if you want to get out of OmniFocus.
So I think that’s what you know, you dropped Brett Terpstra, who’s been a guest on this show a number of times, that’s also Brett’s bent, is work in something that can be reduced to text because that makes it interoperable. You can change tools all the time, anytime you want. And so I guess that’s where I live.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and something that I picked up on this, so in the other one you picked up the whole happiness thing? What I’m picking up is how are you using… What’s the definition between a project management and task management?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that’s good.
Nikki Kinzer:
Because you’re asking, is there a way that’s good to stick with a system that will work for both project and task management.
I want to know how you are defining those things, because to me that’s the same thing. That’s the same system. You have a project, you break it down into tasks.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Nikki Kinzer:
So I would want to know how they’re thinking about that. And it’s interesting because Obsidian is, and Pete, you can correct me, that’s an information management system more so, than a task management system.
Pete Wright:
Again-
Nikki Kinzer:
Or both? Maybe you can make it both.
Pete Wright:
It’s both.
Absolutely. You put task lists in Obsidian, for sure.
Nikki Kinzer:
Okay, perfect. So that could be something that you could do all projects broken down into tasks, information.
So I think that when you’re looking at different systems, nothing’s going to be perfect, but being very clear about what the purpose is that you need the system… What you need it to do for you.
And then I go with what Pete is saying, you have to practice, you have to just play around with it and see how it works. And then you’re going to have to manipulate it in ways that will work for you.
But make the decision because the longer you wait to make the decision, the more you’re in chaos of what you’re going to do. And that’s a terrible place to be. So that would be my two cents is be clear of what you need the systems to do for you, and then try them.
Melissa Bacheler:
Just a quick little shameless plug for our platinum level of Patreon, that’s where we offer coffee with Pete, which is a monthly get-together where we normally talk about all things tech. And Pete answers questions like this.
In fact, I’m thinking of our last meeting where we actually discussed a lot of these different things.
Pete Wright:
We did, yeah.
Melissa Bacheler:
And I just got Obsidian. I got something to deal with my tabs, and they have been very fun and it’s kind of like trying not to pick up all the things because they all sound amazing.
All right. Our next question is a heavy one, so get ready. For both of you, cake or pie?
Pete Wright:
Mmm-hmm. Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
Okay. Yeah. If I had to choose between cake or pie, I would say cake. But I like pie and I like cake, but I also brownies and I like ice cream, and I like donuts and there’s not a lot of sweets or pastries, bake goods, that I don’t like.
Pete Wright:
Yes, yes. It’s a donut pie cake, is what you want, it sounds like. A donut pie cake.
Nikki Kinzer:
Sure.
Pete Wright:
I’m also in the cake category and it is a red velvet. I’m not a fan of the cream cheese frosting. I like just regular old icing, like a plain old ganache. I really don’t like the cream cheese in my… I think cheese is meant for cheese things.
Nikki Kinzer:
Crackers.
Pete Wright:
And frosting is meant for frosting things. And a hot dog is not a sandwich, so there you go.
Nikki Kinzer:
It’s true. I agree with you.
Melissa Bacheler:
You voted for taco.
Pete Wright:
It’s not a taco!
Nikki Kinzer:
It’s not a taco.
Pete Wright:
That is like slander. A taco is so far from sandwich. I’ve never even heard that question posed. Savages.
Melissa Bacheler:
No. A hot dog is a taco.
Nikki Kinzer:
No, it is not. Not even close.
Pete Wright:
In terms of this, it is closer. It is closer in many ways to taco than sandwich.
Melissa Bacheler:
All right. [inaudible 00:48:31]
Pete Wright:
This is clearly an after-show conversation. What’s next?
Melissa Bacheler:
All right. “My brother, age 26 was recently diagnosed with ADHD and ASD or Autism Spectrum Disorder. He’s been struggling a lot lately and gets easily upset or frustrated.”
“I think routines could help with the autism, but they seem to be so hard to stick to when you have ADHD. Do you have any suggestions about how to stick with routines that half of your brain needs, but the other half of your brain doesn’t want?”
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes. I do not have any suggestions. So this is where I’m not the right person to ask because I don’t have the education or understanding of ASD as much as you would probably need to answer this question.
So I would say to ask your doctor, a therapist or another professional who has experience with both ADHD and ASD to talk to you about how they work together and what might help. But honestly, I don’t know. I don’t know.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that makes me feel… I am sad because I know just how hard that complication is of dealing with both of those things when it seems like they’re in such odds with each other. And I know that there are people out there who are specialists in helping to create those systems. And I, like Nikki, am not that person.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Melissa Bacheler:
All right. This is our final question from our listeners. Do either of you have any other podcast channels that you would recommend for either ADHD, ASD, or just generally fun podcasts?
Pete Wright:
Wow. Okay. Nikki, you want to go first? I have a library of a million podcasts.
Nikki Kinzer:
So I don’t actually listen to a lot of podcasts. And when I do, it’s usually when I’m cleaning the house or I’m doing something on the weekend. Cleaning, I’m either organizing or cleaning or doing something.
But there are some that I have subscribed that I really like. I like True-Crime, so I like Crime Junkies is my favorite True-Crime podcast. I also Small Town Dicks. It’s kind of funny. It’s about two detectives that are in my town. The small town is my town. So it’s really interesting to me because-
Pete Wright:
That’s awesome.
Nikki Kinzer:
It’s all a lot of local stuff.
And then I listened to some business podcasts. I’m a huge fan of Amy Porterfield, Business Wars, American Scandal, Smartless with Jason Bateman and his crew. How I Built This, Armchair Expert, I really enjoy.
I’m a Wondery subscriber so I can get all of their podcasts and I love it. I never really thought that I would subscribe to a channel like that, but I really like their shows, and so a lot of times I’ll just go in there and pick something. But it’s either True Crime or Business. Or interviews.
Pete Wright:
I think it’s. Yeah, interviews.
Nikki Kinzer:
Entertainment interviews. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
I think that as an ADHD podcaster, I don’t know if this is consistent, but as an ADHD podcaster, I don’t listen to other ADHD podcasts.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, I don’t either, Pete. At all.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, I’m done with ADHD broadcasting after we do it. And I do it sometimes to learn if we’re doing specific research, but I don’t subscribe to other ADHD podcasts, and I think that might, I don’t know.
I worry about the message that that sends. I do consume other ADHD content, but my podcasts are protected space for my personal brain, and so I listen to the stuff I love love as podcasts
Nikki Kinzer:
So Well, and Pete, I think with that note too, I think it’s, for me personally, it gets me into a different place. I’m not necessarily just listening to the interview. I’m thinking about, “Oh, should we have this person on our show?”
Pete Wright:
Totally. It’s work.
Nikki Kinzer:
How would our interview be different? “Oh, I like that they did this. Should we do this?” I go into comparison mode and like, “Oh, we should be doing this,” and it makes me not… It totally takes away from what it’s supposed to be, so I don’t listen to others.
Pete Wright:
A hundred percent what you said.
Nikki Kinzer:
Support them 100%. I think it’s great, but I don’t listen.
Pete Wright:
I listen to, let’s see, Accidental Tech podcast, three Nerds talking about hardcore nerd stuff. I love After The Whistle with Brandon Hunt and Rebecca Lowe is about the World Cup, and it’s a podcast that is only existing for the World Cup, but I am super into it and Brandon Hunt is Coach Beard on Ted Lasso-
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh I saw that being advertised.
Pete Wright:
NBC journalists, and they’re so smart and they have great guests.
Automators is a great nerd show about automating mostly Ear Mac, but a lot of automation stuff. Let’s see, a lot of movie podcasts. I like Cinephile, Hissy Fit is fun, Connected. A lot of the Relay FM nerd shows I listen to and love very, very much. Dear Hanka John, the Focus podcast, oh my gosh, Glass Cannon Podcast Network. Melissa made me listen to that and I love it so, so much. I can’t even get enough of it.
Gank that Drink is a Supernatural Drinking Game podcast that’s funny that just moved to the True Story FM network, which I think is awesome. Commode Mayor’s Take is a movie podcast that’s like Siskel and Ebert, but they’re British, and so who can go wrong with that?
Oh my gosh. I could go on, Cortex. We talked about Cortex before, CGP Gray and Mike Curley talking about how they organize their lives. They’re YouTubers and podcasters and I love it.
My Brother, My Brother and me from the McElroy’s. And, oh my gosh, Robot or Not, which is a weirdly long running show, 249 episodes. They’re all about five minutes long, in which Jason Snell, journalist, and John Syracuse, resident incredibly brilliant nerd, rule on the meaning of various words and concepts. And it started with, “Is this thing a robot or is it not a robot?” And they talk about, at some great detail, answering whether or not that thing is a robot.
But it evolved once they ran out of robots to things like garlic, “Is garlic a vegetable, an herb, a spice or what?” And they answer that question at the level of depth you would not expect from a stupid show like that.
Robot or Not is amazing. “Is it a house or a boat? If it floats, it’s a boat, or is it?” That kind of stuff. It’s fantastic. I love that show so much, robot or… And it’s like five minutes long, you cannot lose with Robot or Not. It’s great and stupid and great, awesome and stupid and great. That is all.
Nikki Kinzer:
Wow. You have a lot of them.
Pete Wright:
And that’s just, I mean, that’s just, I’m cherry picking through my set of shows. I subscribe to way too many shows, like I subscribe to a lot and I listen to all of them on double, sometimes 2.5 speed. That’s how I rock my podcasts.
Nikki Kinzer:
That’s awesome.
Pete Wright:
That is all.
Nikki Kinzer:
There you have it. I think that’s the show, right?
Pete Wright:
Is that it?
Melissa Bacheler:
That’s all the question.
Pete Wright:
The whole thing?
Melissa Bacheler:
It ends.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Oh my gosh, that was super, super fun. As Melissa said earlier, we are going to continue the “how well do you know your host” game, even though it is steeped in fraud and controversy.
Nikki Kinzer:
It really is.
Pete Wright:
We’ll do that after the close of the show and we hope that members-
Melissa Bacheler:
How dare you.
Pete Wright:
Members stick around and listen to the rest of it. But in the meantime, Melissa, thank you so much for preparing all of this and being on the show. We love you so much.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes we do.
Melissa Bacheler:
Absolutely. Thank you guys. I had such a good time and thank you for having me.
Pete Wright:
And we appreciate all of you for listening and downloading this show. Thank you for your time and your attention.
Don’t forget, if you have something to contribute to this conversation, we’re heading over to the Show Talk channel in our Discord server, and you can join us right there by becoming a supporting member at the deluxe level or better.
Programming note, if you’ve listened this far, starting in season 26, we’re changing our release days from Tuesdays to Thursdays. Shouldn’t impact you too, too much, but that’s happening for season 26 when we come back in January.
Also, we’re coming back in January. We’re going to go on a break for the holidays. Enjoy your holidays. You’re amazing. We’ll see you in Discord though. We’re not going too far. On behalf of Nikki Kinzer and Melissa Bacheler, I’m Pete Wright. We’ll see you right back here next week. Next year, next year on Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast.
