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Matthew
Hello, welcome to this episode of the Star Wars Generations podcast. Today we’re discussing the movie The Mandalorian & Grogu. You have myself, Matthew, the very tired, very grumpy to be awake, but still with us, Erin, and of course, New York Knicks fan extraordinaire, along with myself, another huge New York Knicks fan, Alex. Alex, we haven’t talked to you yet, so we’re going to start with what I think is one of the most essential questions for sports fans right now. Do we want to face the Spurs or the Oklahoma — wait, no, sorry, sorry. Star Wars fans, what did you think of The Mandalorian & Grogu, the movie.
Alex
First of all, Spurs. Second of all, the movie felt like a really fun adventure. The way I kind of see it is I don’t necessarily think this movie advanced Star Wars in any crazy direction or really introduced anything extraordinary, but for kind of soft-relaunching theatrical releases and for bringing these beloved characters onto the big screen, it felt like an extremely well-written and thought-out adventure that we got to experience.
Could it have just been part of the TV series? Sure, but it was a lot cooler with the advanced graphics and the big screen, and I went and saw it twice in the first 16 hours it was out. So yeah, I really overall enjoyed it. I would give it a probably a solid 7 out of 10.
Matthew
And that is — forgive me for exposing our private chat — that’s a much better review than you were giving it after the first time you saw it. How much do you think is this because the second time you’ve seen it, it feels a lot better?
Alex
The second time definitely felt better. I think the first time I see any Star Wars movie, this is probably not crazy, but my anxiety is super high because my expectations are through the roof. The Star Wars movie needed to be good, it needed to be good. And I’m so locked into every little nitty-gritty detail. Then once I know what’s happened, I watch it the second time and I’m kind of just watching it for the enjoyment and the feeling and the emotions.
I was like, okay, I just get to know what’s happening and go along for the ride. I still have gripes and we’ll get into that. But I think it is, again, a really fun movie. It’s not like Rogue One where it really gets into some nitty-gritty, interesting, somewhat arguable plot-hole-filling things. But it’s a fun space adventure with Mando and Grogu.
Matthew
Erin, you also saw it a second time, right?
Erin
Yes, I did.
Alex
Wait — Erin, what did you go with? A notebook, correct?
Erin
I did. I went with a notebook. I have lots of notes here. I think it’s like six pages, except I do have a couple of blank pages because it was the movie theater and I accidentally double-turned a page. Dedication right there, folks. Yeah.
I’ve got lots of good things. I was so excited to see it for the second time. I loved it the first time. So I was excited to really get some notes and write down beats from the movie I really appreciated as well as just some funny moments.
Matthew
So overall, second time just as good as the first?
Erin
Yeah, if not a little better, because one thing for me is I tend to forget a lot by the time the end of the movie comes around. I walk out and I’m like, wow, I remember it was really fun and really awesome, but I don’t remember as much of it as I would like to be able to talk about it in depth. So it’s always helpful for me to go and watch it again.
Matthew
Yeah. I’m really glad it was really positive for both of you. I think if I watch it a second time — I don’t think I’m going to do it in theaters, but when it comes to Disney+, I’ll probably have a fun time doing it. I think I’m a little more negative on it, and some of the reasons I already talked about with Erin when we did our quick response, and some of them I’ve thought about more and have some more in-depth thoughts on.
But yeah, overall, this seems to be the response a lot of folks are having — the discussion is often: did we want this to be more than it was, should this have been a movie? But either way, setting aside the haters, and the online nonsense — I’ve heard a lot of people calling this woke, which for a movie that had one named female character, I think is kind of hilarious — this is a movie that a lot of people are really enjoying. And I certainly think it’s a good way for us to be back with Star Wars in theaters, and that more than anything else has me excited.
Alex
And I want to clarify that I’m not saying this is like an amazing movie either. Like, my vibe — for example, when I saw The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi in theaters, I could not walk for a little while afterwards. I couldn’t drive my car for like 20 minutes. I had to calm down.
When I got up after this one, I was like, oh, you know, that was fun. I smiled a lot during the movie. That was fun. But it didn’t feel like the weight a general Star Wars movie has on me. It felt like — I don’t know — if it was just a movie I saw without the Star Wars name connected to it, I’d probably think, oh, yeah, that was fun, I don’t know if I need to see it another few times. But generally positive. I think it could have been better, or could have just been a TV season.
Matthew
So where do we want to start? Alex, let’s talk about some of the things you most loved.
Alex
In my opinion, the Anzellans characters stole the show. Those were the best part of the whole movie, in my opinion. They were so funny to me. I thought their little side quest was made so much better by the Anzellans characters — their little ship, their little side comments — I thought they made me laugh more than anything else in the entire movie.
And overall, what I think this movie did best was — you know, George Lucas was so big on creatures and expanding the universe of creatures in Star Wars. I feel like other movies have introduced creatures and we have little scenes here and there, but this movie really leaned into as many different species and weird creatures and aliens. I really appreciate that. It’s a part of Star Wars that I think has become a little bit more of a lost art if you go outside of The Clone Wars TV series and to the movies.
And Erin, I remember you even said it kind of felt like an episode of The Clone Wars, because it was so unique character-wise. Like, if you had told me five years ago there was going to be a live-action scene with Rotta the Hutt’s son wrestling aliens from Dejarik, I’d be like, huh? If you told me it was going to be a Clone Wars episode, I’d be like, oh, that’s par for the course. That’s normal. So it felt like they were definitely taking Clone Wars-esque vibes and putting them into live action. I thought that was successful.
The other part I really liked was seeing Nal Hutta in live action. We’ve seen it in animation a few times. I liked seeing their take on it, and how the Hutts are just in this little hive of a temple. It feels so much more fitting for what a Hutt would be in than the Tatooine desert, but still had the vibes of Jabba’s palace in a way.
I think the overall design of the sets and the characters and the creatures was really fun. What I thought was lacking was some of the emotional weight behind the plot and the use of some of the characters. I could have used a little more Zeb, maybe. And Sigourney Weaver was being touted as a main name, but she was only on screen for like a total of three minutes.
Matthew
I did an episode of the film board, which is one of the main film review podcasts we do on the TruStory FM network of podcasts, which this podcast is part of. And one of the comments I made there is that she felt like an NPC. Her job was to give Mando the information he needed for his next mission, but she had no character. There was no there, there.
Alex
That’s also how I felt, Matthew, honestly, about Jeremy Allen White’s voice performance. They distorted it so much. And there’s such a point being made to have Rotta speak Basic English. It was just like, it could have been anyone doing that voice. And I feel like if you’re going to make a Hutt speak Basic, at least give it a little more weight and bravado. Otherwise, stick to Huttese.
Erin
Yeah, I kind of agree with that. I feel like some of the complaints I’ve seen online are that they went for celebrity casting for Rotta the Hutt, when they could have just as easily gone with someone who has more experience with voice acting — someone for whom that’s really their background — and they may have been able to bring more depth to the character than someone who’s used to live-action acting and relies more on facial expressions to get their points across. That could have maybe brought that character a little more life and depth.
I’m not very familiar with Jeremy Allen White or his work. I’m sure he’s a great actor outside of this, and I’m not saying this was a straight-up bad performance, but it wasn’t my favorite.
Matthew
It fell a little flat. I’m probably the one who knows him most of the three of us, just because I’ve seen all of Shameless and all of The Bear, which I think are his two biggest works. In both of those, he plays a young man struggling to escape the expectations poured on him by his family, especially about what kind of person he’s going to be.
So in some ways, he’s playing the same role he’s played a few times, with some notable differences to be sure. But I think part of it is just the writing for him — Erin, you and I talked about this already — a Hutt saying “I want to be my own man” numerous times, the dialogue felt so emo. Like, if you want, Jeremy Allen White is a great person to play a young emo adult trying to escape the life that’s been prescribed for him by his family. But why you make that character a Hutt just makes no sense to me. That’s where it really struggled for me — the visual of him and the things he was saying just clashed so much.
Alex
It’s so funny that you described it that way, Matthew, because it just clicked in my head that he also played Bruce Springsteen in the recent biopic, and his role was literally about trying to escape the role that was prescribed for him. So maybe that’s Jeremy Allen White’s thing — escaping the role that society has put on him.
But I agree. And both viewings, I was like, he keeps saying “try to be my own man.” Like, okay, one time — saying it once, “I’m trying to get out from the shadow of my father and be my own man,” fine, that makes sense. But he kept repeating it. And all we’ve ever seen of Rotta was little Stinky in the Clone Wars movie. We would have needed some other context about him to really feel for the character. But they’re always trying to make us feel for him by having him constantly repeat these emotional statements. It just felt a little over the top.
Matthew
Especially for me, the “man” part felt so weird, because to me that runs contrary to what we’re saying about expanding the universe so much and having all these different kinds of living beings that aren’t just anthropomorphic. Like, in some ways that’s great about Rotta — he’s a character without legs, he is not a human with a weird nose. But I think of that moment from Star Trek — which I know people compare to Star Wars all the time, I think they’re both great — in The Undiscovered Country, Kirk and some Starfleet officers are talking to Klingons, and they use the phrase “human rights.” And the Klingon says, “listen to what you’re saying — human rights” — she describes it as a homo sapiens-only club.
And I think in later seasons they talk about “crimes against sentience” instead of human rights abuses, because the point is that they’re not all human. We have to expand beyond saying “I’m a man, I’m a woman.” At a time when this movie is pushing the bounds of what kinds of beings are out there, Rotta could just say “I’m my own person,” or some other word not tied to being a human being.
Erin
Yeah. And I wondered — the first time he used that word, I was like, oh, that’s kind of a callback to the deleted scene from A New Hope where Jabba was supposed to be a man. Han Solo calls him a man. I was like, okay, sure, maybe we’re doing that. And then he said it like two or three more times and I was like, no, this is a lot now.
And one thing with Rotta — he made some comment, I don’t remember if it was to Grogu or to Dinn, but about like, “when I was Grogu’s age, I was on my own.” Tell me about that. What do you mean? Because last time I checked, we rescued you and brought you back to your dad. So what happened? They threw in a couple of things to be like, oh, tragic backstory, but really didn’t describe much about it. So if you haven’t seen the Clone Wars movie, you would have absolutely no context.
Matthew
Right. And granted, we don’t know what a Hutt’s lifespan is — it’s supposed to be significantly longer than humans. His father was killed in Return of the Jedi, but that’s only like eight to ten years before this movie is set. There are at least 20-plus years from the end of the Clone Wars until his father is killed. Maybe he was on his own before then, maybe something else happened. We don’t know. But yeah, it raises a lot of good questions.
Alex
They do say in the movie that Hutts live for hundreds of years, which is also a little weird — that in that time period he went from tiny to full-grown like that. But also the whole Hutt identity just felt a little weird. Not only could he call himself a man, but you notice the twins were never named, and there’s no name anywhere in canon for the twins. It feels like they’re kind of not defining the Hutts as well as they could be, identity-wise.
Matthew
Yeah, I think that’s really true. It’s funny — he’s called Jabba the Hutt, I think because on Tatooine he is the only Hutt and that’s sort of who you mean. But when it’s a whole bunch of Hutts hanging out, you’re not going to say like Matthew the Fox and David the Fox and Andy the Fox — those are just my family members.
Okay, so what are other things you guys noticed, especially watching the second time through?
Erin
The Shakari theme. It’s all I can think about. I see so many TikToks about it.
Matthew
The Shakari theme — that’s the tech music, right? The very tech music.
Erin
Yeah.
Alex
Yeah, that slapped. When they fly up on Shakari and he’s like, “hey, drop me off,” and he just flies out of the ship — and the way they perfectly strung in that flute from the Mando theme as he dropped out of the ship on Shakari was so cool.
Erin
It was so well done. And I think about it a lot. I made my friend listen to it because I was like, girl, trust me on this. Mind you, we’re sitting in her house waiting to leave and come back in four hours to catch her cheating husband. And I’m like, hey, listen, it’s a bop. And she’s kind of looking at me, starts talking about something, and I’m just bopping my head, and she goes, “oh, I forgot you were showing me this song.” Well, yeah, it’s a vibe.
Matthew
That’s kind of hilarious. Yeah. And just the Mandalorian theme song itself — the fact that they managed to put that in so many different times but in so many different musical styles, and it didn’t just sound like, oh okay, it’s that same thing. It sounded different every time. You’d catch it and think, oh, okay, I hear what you’re doing. It always fit the mood.
Alex
I liked Canto — I mean, I liked Shakari a lot as a whole. I thought it was a really well-designed and really fun planet. Also goofy as hell. Martin Scorsese was the voice of the Ardenian — the four-armed monkey character who’s giving information while cutting up floating meat. That whole bit I was like, bro, am I in New York right now? What’s happening? Like a food cart, but someone’s going there for information.
Matthew
Do you remember the story with Martin Scorsese and why that meant so much?
Alex
No.
Matthew
He was one of the people who a couple of years ago was like, these big franchises are killing movies — the MCU and Star Wars are not real movies. And I don’t know why he wound up going from that to being in this movie, whether it’s his mea culpa, like no, these are real movies, or if one of his grandkids was like, grandpa, why aren’t you in a Star Wars movie, or he lost a bet or something. But it’s kind of all the better for it, given he was so anti-Star Wars for a long time.
Alex
That’s super funny, actually.
Erin
And it’s great that it’s not even just a one-off character that says one line. That character had arguably as much screen time as Sigourney Weaver’s character.
Matthew
And I would say a lot more characterization — I knew more about who he was, his motivations, he has a family, he’s scared for them.
Alex
Yeah. “I don’t want your credits. Stop saying that.” He was so funny. Even though it’s a funny character.
Erin
“No, no, I didn’t give you information. That was Tab.”
Alex
Right. Yeah.
I also liked — I went back and forth on this — I liked how they introduced Moff Gideon. John Niew? Jonah Nieu?
Matthew
Moff Gideon or Enric Pryde?
Alex
Come on. Thank you. I liked how they introduced him and the whole idea that salt is a high commodity there — which was kind of a little political statement, I guess that’s the most woke thing about this movie — and that whole interaction in the bar, and then the epic fight, and then Mando walking out and dropping the salt in the glass. I thought that was all really fun, a cool introduction. But then I wanted to know more about him and we got absolutely no further information.
They went to his home, they raided it, and that was the one time I was really into the action and I was like, I wanted more of that. And they pulled him out and I was like, oh okay, I guess we don’t get to know anything else about this character. I would have liked a little more depth on him, but I liked his introduction and the crime lord vibe he was giving on Shakari before the Dejarik match, which I’ll talk about. Actually, I don’t have a comment on that before I get into the Dejarik match.
Matthew
I’ll just say — to me, that’s where the movie really lost me. After they bring back this character, I thought, okay, here’s where it becomes a wider movie, because now we’re going to hear Sigourney Weaver talk about what they’re going to do based on what he’s told them, and Mando is going to get wrapped up in that mission somehow. And of course, we didn’t get that. I’m guessing that’s mostly just a little Easter egg to help set up whatever is going to happen in the next season of Ahsoka.
But thinking about it — if I’m correct, this is the first and only Star Wars movie where you never see a TIE fighter, or the vulture droid that’s kind of their predecessor. We have that tacked-on space battle at the end, which makes no sense with X-wings fighting against Jabba’s ships, but we never see a TIE fighter or a Star Destroyer or anything like that. I think it’s the only movie where that’s true.
Alex
Let me go through it in my head.
Erin
Rogue One, definitely. The prequels — well, they have vulture droids.
Alex
Yeah. Episodes one, two, and three.
Erin
Well, they have vulture droids, at least.
Alex
Yeah. Yeah. And I think the lack of any space battle was weird. And also — like you said, Matthew — there was an opportunity there. Give me a cutback to Sigourney Weaver interrogating this character and seeing her get to read some of his file. That gives us backstory on who he is, gives Sigourney Weaver more screen time, gives a little more depth to the story — all in not a lot of runtime.
I don’t know. I think that would have gone a really long way. Because then suddenly it’s like, “he told us everything, they’re playing both sides” — and I was like, wait a minute. Because of some random info that happened off screen, you’re now pulling up with a detachment of X-wings, even though earlier in the movie Zeb made an express point to say “we’re out of the jurisdiction of the New Republic, I can’t call in an X-wing attack.”
Erin
Well, he said that on Shakari, not on Nal Hutta.
Alex
Which is also out of the jurisdiction of the New Republic, right?
Erin
Well, yes, but he wasn’t talking about that planet specifically.
Alex
I don’t understand. That was kind of a goofy thing — to have him say that line and then have an X-wing strike on a planet not in the New Republic occur two hours later.
Erin
Yeah.
Alex
Definitely. But a positive thing — I did think the Dejarik fight was pretty cool. The Dejarik match was a fun, cool scene. It was fun to see all these aliens and creatures that we know from Dejarik, which is the chess-style game we first see in A New Hope that C-3PO and Chewbacca are playing. And for the eagle-eyed fans, if you notice, there was a brief moment in the middle of that fight where a long-necked alien picked up a chubbier one and put him down in exactly the same motion as a move Chewbacca made in A New Hope. I was like, huh, nice. That’s a great Easter egg.
And it was fun to see these aliens in a kind of battle royale thing. I don’t know, it certainly made me wonder: is the game based off the deathmatch, or is the deathmatch a homage to the game? But it was cool visually to see it all go down.
Erin
Matthew, you’re never big on — “never” is a strong word — but that’s not typically your favorite style, the monster-fight type thing. I do love a monster movie, especially in Star Wars, because aliens are such a huge part of it. That’s something I always enjoyed in the Mandalorian TV show — when they do the monsters of the week. I do find it harder to watch, like, the dragon-snake fight versus the Dejarik match.
Matthew
Yeah. When the Dejarik match was ten different kinds of weird alien animal types — because these are sentient beings, they just look monstrous to us — I’m all for it. It’s the kind of non-sentient animal where it’s not evil, it’s just hunting and eating and doing what it wants to do, and sentient beings have tortured it to make it attack. I just don’t get much out of seeing that creature get killed.
In the Dejarik match, fine. I wish they’d had half as many because I think we could have concentrated on them more. But having the ones they did was fine. It’s when you then add the monster attacks in the various locations, and then there was another monster before the fish-dragon, and then the fish-dragon itself — that’s when it starts to feel like, come on, be more inventive. Find something else.
Alex
I also found the snake dragon to have the worst CGI in the movie. That to me looked the most fake. Well, the rest looked pretty real, but the snake dragon just looked — it was like Pedro Pascal’s face taking up a small portion of the screen, and then one half of the screen was a very obviously CGI creature. All I’m saying is that if Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean can hold up 20 years later, we can do better than how that snake dragon looked.
Erin
That’s interesting. I actually really liked how it looked. I mean, of course it’s obviously CGI — it’s not a real thing — but I really liked the detailing of the skin. I thought it was cool that it was nearly translucent. And the way the teeth moved — I don’t know if you guys noticed that, but when it snarled, the teeth and the lips moved separately, unlike how our teeth and lips move here on Earth. I thought that was really cool.
But I can see what you’re saying — when the live-action actor is such a small part of the screen and you take so much of the wide-angle view and fill it with a CGI character, it’s harder to believe.
Alex
What bothers me sometimes — I’ve noticed this in The Mandalorian and Andor, too — is that they do rely a lot on CGI characters. I look back at Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, where they had the Basilisk and they made a gigantic life-size head and top of the torso of that snake for the moments when Harry was fighting it. That was years ago, likely on a smaller budget than Lucasfilm has for a Star Wars movie.
I’m not saying it has to be perfect, but if you can make practical effects — and that’s what’s made Star Wars great in the past — and we’ve seen that work in other franchises with a large snake, I just thought that would have gone a really long way. Even just a practical head with some CGI for the wide shots. It just felt off to me.
Matthew
And I would just say — of course it’s going to be CGI in this movie, especially because so much else was practical. Grogu wasn’t CGI, so many of the alien-type things weren’t. It just felt like a waste. But anyway, we’ve been kind of retreading territory we’ve had before, and that’s my fault. So I want to hear more from you all.
Erin, in your notebook — as Alex said, it wasn’t just the anticipation and the anxiety, but now it’s more like, okay, I know what I’m going into, let me really pay attention to what’s awesome or not awesome here.
Erin
Well, let’s real quick talk about the opening scene on that snow planet. Where he takes out that one initial commander and we see — a funny Star Wars person, which is the human with a funny nose.
Alex
I thought about that when Matthew said that.
Erin
We both made eye contact on that one. I thought it was hilarious the way he off-roads in that AT-ST. Yes, they’re made for off-roading, but I don’t think they’re made for going directly down a cliff, especially 20 years after they were produced. Like, he does not give one — he’s just like, hop on baby, let’s climb down a cliff. Responsible father wear.
And I thought the opening credit music was really beautifully done. It was a perfect blend of the classic theme while also bringing in a few newer features, so the score still felt unique. I loved that. It was like a sunset and they were coming in, and the humor.
Alex
Can I comment on the opening scene real quick? So that’s the scene they showed at Star Wars Celebration. The whole scene. And I was like, damn, of course it’s the opening scene. I felt like it was a “here’s how badass Mando is” kind of scene, which I enjoyed. But I feel like that was really the most Empire remnant content we saw. It’s not Stormtroopers at the palace, sure. But I would have liked to see a little more of that.
I liked seeing the old AT-ATs and that old equipment — that was a cool visual scene, and it was both action-packed and funny. Like Grogu banging on the helmet — yo, dude, we got to go, we got to go. And he’s like, nah bro, we got to blow this guy up first. And Zeb’s like, you know, it works better if they’re alive, dude. Like, what are you doing? That was all very funny. And then when all the local leaders are like, take up arms, they’re pointing guns, and Mando walks in and they all drop them and one lady just points to the door — that got me.
Erin
That was great. He’s like, cool. Tips his imaginary hat.
Alex
That was really fun, a successful opening scene. I would have liked that energy more throughout the movie. Sorry, continue.
Erin
No, thank you. That’s what I wanted — for the list to spark conversation, not for me to just read it off.
Alex
Oh, I also wanted to say — Erin, I’m curious what you think about this — I did not like that Mando kept telling Grogu “heel,” like he was a dog.
Erin
That pissed me off! I mean, I thought it was a little bit funny, but also — he’s not a dog.
Alex
It’s a little funny, yeah. But he did it multiple times. Grogu is your partner in action. He’s a Force-sensitive warrior who’s smart as hell. And you just tell him, “heel”?
Erin
So let me describe where I’m coming from. Give me a second. This is my love. This is my baby. Her name is Lana. She’s my favorite girl in the whole wide world, and she does not respect me for anything.
Matthew
This is a dog, by the way, just to remind people this is primarily audio, not TV.
Erin
I forgot. Oh yeah.
Alex
I lifted up my dog too. She doesn’t listen for anything. So I really felt that — going on an adventure with someone you trust so much and they just don’t listen. Because you’re responsible for them. But like, she’s one of my best friends. So I found it a little more funny because I say “heel” to a being I consider a close personal friend rather than just an animal.
Erin
And she doesn’t listen so much. But yeah, it took me off guard the first time. I was like, oh hey, that’s your kid, bro. But yeah, I thought it was funny.
Matthew
And like, as the father of a 10-month-old, I certainly have some level of understanding of what that’s like. And I think we’re in this really interesting place. I rewatched Season 3 of The Mandalorian, and I think part of you is like, isn’t it hard to bring your toddler with you when you’re on death-defying missions? And generally the response is, don’t bring your toddler. But clearly Grogu is in a weird in-between state — in many ways he has the emotional and social maturity of a big baby or toddler, but also has a lot of powers to defend himself.
And we remember that in The Mandalorian Season 3, he’s told by the Armorer, okay, now he’s not just a foundling — he is part of your clan, and it is your job to take him with you on your adventures. And heel — yeah, you know. So to me, that’s the explanation for why, because there are definitely moments where you’re like, why, when you’re going to have to climb down a cliff in a stolen AT-ST, do you have a baby with you?
Erin
Yeah, for real. Also, something that popped in my head when you were talking about that and Alex said “heel” — people teach their dogs to heel to keep them safe. It’s not necessarily to control the dog, but so that your dog can come to you and be by you when there’s something going on, when there’s danger, when you just don’t know the area. It’s very much a safety mechanism.
Matthew
I could see that.
Erin
Exactly. Like, don’t cross the street without holding my hand, toddler.
Alex
Yeah, but are you going to say “heel” to your child?
Erin
I’m not going to have a child, but who knows.
Alex
I know what I mean though. Like, if I had a child and one of you said “heel” to the child, you’d be like, what are you doing?
Erin
Anyway, moving on from the heel conversation. I think it’s hilarious that they gave him a deck of cards of Imperial ex-officers. And I think it’s doubly hilarious that there’s a card for someone who just doesn’t have a face. Why bother making a card? It’s our “ace of spades,” our ace of spades — Commander So-and-So — but it’s just a blank card. How is that supposed to help Mando at all? And they’re just handing it to him like it’s going to. Okay. Yeah.
Alex
He’s like, we don’t know if he’s alive or dead, no one knows who he is or what he looks like, but here’s a card with a silhouette on it. Good luck.
Erin
Yeah. It was an interesting departure from the typical holodiscs that bounty hunters usually use to find their targets. My next note in here is, after we meet Rotta, it just says “lethal belly flop. LMFAO.” Like, why is that his kill move? Like in a video game where every character has their one-shot move, I feel like that’s Rotta’s — just belly-flopping on his opponent and they’re just done.
Alex
And it was funny to see him move. I couldn’t process how a Hutt was going to be a gladiator fighter. And he would like roll his body to get closer.
Erin
I did not see the rolling coming. It took me by surprise the first time. I was like, what?
Alex
And the body slam was hilarious. He tried to do it to Mando, and like — also, I understand that best kar’ta is like really hard. But it still had to hurt.
Matthew
Yeah. There was a moment where I was like, oh right, this isn’t The Mandalorian show, because the show can be pretty gruesome at times. When he did that first body slam, I was like, there should be a red smear down his chest. But this is a PG-13 movie. I don’t think we’re going to see a red smear. We should have seen a red smear, but we didn’t.
Erin
Yeah, it was a surprisingly non-bloody gladiator ring. I feel like there was little to no blood in that movie.
Alex
Almost none.
Erin
I mean, other than Mando getting chomped on.
Alex
And he only had a tiny little wound from that giant thing that bit him.
Matthew
Well, I think that’s because it only got through a little part between the two beskar pieces. That’s fair.
Alex
And the Hutt movement — I will say, another thing I really enjoyed in this movie was the Hutt fight at the end. The twins versus — right, Hutt-on-Hutt violence.
Yeah. The Hutt-on-Hutt violence was something I never knew I needed in my life, but I’m not going to lie, that was so funny to watch.
Erin
Like earthworms fighting each other in the dirt. So funny. Because here’s Mando and Embo having like the bounty hunter face-off — blow for blow, lick for lick, just so cool. And then Rotta and his aunt and uncle are just sticking their hands in each other’s mouths and poking each other’s eyes.
Alex
They’re rolling over each other, and I’m like, what is going on? What’s happening?
Matthew
I did like the moment when the three of them are fighting and the female twin — and you’re right, they’re not named — says, “guys, we’re over that thing, that trap door is loosening.” And the other two are just like, no, we’re going to fight. And she says it three different times — “guys, we’re going to fall.” And then of course they fall.
Alex
“We’re going to kill us all.” And Rotta’s just like, yeah, that’s the point. And then of course, Grogu just kind of floated Rotta up into the air.
Erin
Mind you, Rotta had no reaction to that. I understand he met Force users in the Clone Wars, but I don’t feel like he would remember well enough to be that casual about it.
Alex
Yeah. I don’t know. I will say though, the second time I watched it, I did think he was an excellent age progression. From what he looked like as a baby, I could totally see the resemblance. That was well done aging him up.
Erin
Something that geeked me out was when they said, “here, we have an image of him, but it’s from a long time ago,” and it’s just baby Stinky.
Alex
But I was like, there’s no way that’s your only photo of him.
Matthew
Here’s my old person moment — what does “geeked me” mean? Is that a positive or a negative term?
Alex
Positive. When you geek out, when you nerd out about something.
Erin
Not necessarily how I’m using it, but yeah.
Alex
When you’re geeked, you’re excited.
Erin
Yeah, excited. It can also mean, like, drugs — that’s not how I’m referring to it, but yeah, it can mean a lot of things, like a lot of words for Gen Z. Cool.
Another positive — and I think Alex appreciated this too — was the Hutt-pa droids.
Alex
Yes. And I’m glad you brought this up, because I thought it was really cool that even though Mando has kind of overcome some of his droid fears, the Hutts’ army are literally decommissioned Clone Wars droids.
For the most part — reassembled in some places. Like the super battle droids were as-is, but the regular battle droids were attached to like — there was a K-2SO head on some, a battle droid head on others. They were like weird Frankenstein droids.
Erin
Yeah, it was really cool. And I liked the starfighters they used on Nal Hutta. I thought those were pretty cool. I hadn’t seen something like that before, other than Boba’s ship.
Matthew
Even though I was saying before that I wish we’d had more of a section fighting the Empire — it is also really cool to see that these aren’t just people with blasters. They have their own armies, their own fighter groups.
Alex
The little ships they used on Nal Hutta looked to me like the Mining Guild ships from Rebels — when the rebels go to get the gas and they encounter the purrgils. I think those are the same ships. So they’re decommissioned Mining Guild ships that the Hutts are just repurposing. Which, again, I thought was all really fun and cool and weird — like the little droid army they had.
Matthew
Well, we’re coming up on an hour, so let’s just kind of go rapid fire. What are some more of the things on your list?
Erin
During the Dejarik match, when they break out, Mando gets Grogu out and I just wrote “f*** a door” because Mando just pried that cage open. Baby.
After that, I wrote — you know how there’s that baby stroller and it almost gets crushed, but then the parent takes it away, leaving an empty bassinet? Grogu put that bassinet in sports mode. He put that little strap down and it was go time.
Alex
Why do they make bassinets that go at the speed of a starfighter?
Erin
So funny. And that little finger shake. When Rotta tries to get away and Zeb kind of stops him, and he’s like, “I can’t blame a guy for trying.”
Alex
And then he just gave up. Rotta was fighting against it the whole time, and then once he was in the ship, he was like, alright, I’m going to help you guys now.
Rotta was the most weak-willed — he just completely flipped.
Erin
And the way they had him strapped up got me. That was so funny.
Alex
Yeah. And Mando was like, I have to let you down now because the ship’s too bumpy. And I’m like, wait, you’re just going to let him down? And then Rotta’s just like, alright, I’m going to help you.
Erin
Yeah. They really put a Hutt in air jail. Like he was a baby or a puppy.
Alex
And I would have texted Matthew and Erin after the movie — one of my first thoughts was: if you had told me in the year of our Lord 2008 that Stinky the Hutt was going to join the New Republic, I would have laughed in your face. That was crazy.
Also — how about the random creature that lived out by the bayou that happened to make a little antidote to cure Mando?
Matthew
What in the Star Wars convenience was that? That deliverance fishman — I have no idea why he didn’t have a space banjo.
Alex
He had a rocking chair. He’s like, “I think you’re the one that stole my fish,” after throwing a rock at Grogu. That entire sequence was so weird.
Erin
Yeah, it was pretty random, pretty funny.
Alex
And he doesn’t help the bounty hunter who could have paid him. He goes, no. But this little baby I’ve known for three seconds who stole my fish? I’m going to help this baby. And then we never saw him again. Like, okay, bye.
Erin
Bye, Bob. I went for real.
Second time around, I did count all of Rotta’s abs. There were only 10.
Matthew
Despite my name. Wait — his abs. There were only 10 abs? They were much larger than I initially anticipated. And they were like — humans have two rows on left and right — he was like mono-abbed, right?
Erin
I think it was pretty mono. I was counting them as two because there was a bit of a distinction. At least I thought so. I don’t know — I also had a couple of Tito’s on my second time through. So I wasn’t 1000% locked in, but I was still pretty locked in.
I’ve got to know how tall Embo is, because I didn’t realize he was like eight feet tall.
Matthew
He towers.
Erin
He just aura-farmed this entire film. It was so cool. And people are complaining he didn’t get enough screen time. But I think they did the character perfectly. One thing we’ve talked about with this movie is the struggle with a Hutt using Basic, and Embo doesn’t use Basic — to my understanding, his species doesn’t have the capacity to use Basic. So I think keeping him in a smaller, mysterious, menacing role was actually really cool. And I thought it was pretty funny how Mando just blew up his roof to get at Embo.
Alex
Yeah, that was crazy. And I also would have liked to spend a little more time on Nevarro.
Matthew
Yeah. Greef Karga was such a huge part of those three seasons of The Mandalorian, and such a huge part of Nevarro — he was the High Magistrate and all that. Carl Weathers, the actor who played him, passed away. And it didn’t have to be a big deal — we wouldn’t need to have a whole conversation about him. But I thought it would have been a really nice thing if, when we’re on Nevarro, you know they put up statues to people who helped there, like they did with the IG droid. It would have been really nice if Mando was just walking around and walked past a statue of Greef Karga, memorializing him. It would make complete sense in the movie, and it would also be a nice way to acknowledge that an actor who was a really big part of the story has passed away.
Erin
I agree. Yeah, that would have been nice.
Alex
I have a crazy note that I just found through a little Googling. The dragon snake we see in this movie — and I was complaining about the CGI — we’ve seen it two other times in Star Wars. I forgot this happened in The Clone Wars, but when Obi-Wan and — oh, who is it? Ventress? Lux Bonteri? No no no, the Jedi —
Erin
Oh, Quinlan Vos.
Alex
Thank you. When Quinlan and Obi-Wan go to Nal Hutta — if you remember that one episode — they end up with Obi-Wan fighting a dragon snake in the swamp. That’s right.
And also, Matthew, get ready for this. On Dagobah, the little bump you see in the water before Artoo gets swallowed — that is now being called a dragon snake by Lucasfilm.
Matthew
— I mean, go to the YouTube, I’ll make that exactly a clip we’ll put on the TikTok, TheEthicalPanda.
Alex
I think it’s crazy that they’re going to name that as a dragon snake now. So I guess they live in all swamp planets.
Matthew
That’s like 30 years later, going back and saying the old man with them on Dagobah is —
Alex
Oh yeah, actually, Rex. Like it’s Rex. 100 percent. Whatever. 100 percent. It has to be Rex.
Matthew
Really?
Alex
All right.
Matthew
Well, it’s been great. I want to wrap up quickly. We’re going to do a feedback episode next week with feedback both from the Maul show and from this show. So if you have feedback on this movie or on either of those, please let us know and we’ll discuss it next week.
But for now, either of you — any last comments or questions you want to put out there?
Alex
I wanted Grogu to say something. I thought there was an opportunity for him to say his first words in this movie, multiple times. And I’m sad they didn’t do it. That’s my last take.
Erin
That’s fair. I thought they might do it. I didn’t think the movie was necessarily lacking when they didn’t, but I also thought they might have him speak.
Alex
Just anything crazy — or just something small. “Dad.” I would have cried.
Erin
My life would have ended then and there.
My final comment — am I the only one who thinks it’s weird that the twins not only sleep on their throne, but sleep together?
Alex
Yeah, I also thought that was very strange.
Erin
I think they’re a little too attached at the hip. It’s giving Southern Alabama, question mark.
Matthew
I did have a moment of wondering — I guess I’d be more okay with this if Hutts have sort of an asexual reproduction process. Like, slugs don’t have sex as far as I understand — they use a kind of non-sexual splitting reproduction. Though every slug scientist is now yelling at me, so maybe I’m wrong. But maybe that’s just not a thing for Hutts. Of course, Jabba certainly had all those weird feelings for Leia in a bikini, so we’re just not going to think about that now that I’ve reminded you all.
Alex
There was that one moment where Mando was walking through and there were three Hutts real buddy-buddy close to each other.
Matthew
I mean, Ziro the Hutt certainly had strong feelings for Sy Snootles.
Alex
Before she — yeah, he had a libido. I don’t really know how that works with the twins though.
Matthew
And on that family-friendly note, we’re going to call this a podcast. Thank you all so much. I’m Matthew Fox. This has been the Star Wars Generations podcast. Please hit like, please hit subscribe, please hit review, please hit share. Please do all the things you can to help get more people listening to us.
They can also check out my Superhero Ethics podcast, where we’re going to be talking about The Boys pretty soon — if we haven’t already — and we have lots of other awesome stuff coming up. Please check all that out. And please check out all the other great stuff that Alex and Erin are doing.
Alex, this is the last time I’ll be able to say you’re just a normal photojournalist, because as of tomorrow night — the night after I’m recording — Alex is going to be receiving a Pulitzer Prize for photojournalism.
Alex
Well, I received it a few weeks ago, but yeah — it’s part of a team.
Matthew
Okay, so yes — Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist. Also, nursing school graduate Erin, coming soon to a hospital or mental institution or something like that near you. Mental institution as a caregiver, not as a patient, just to be clear.
You never know. I mean, I knew that if I implied you could be there as a patient you’d yell at me, but if I said only as a caregiver you’d say “maybe not.” So who knows — any of us could wind up there as a patient. Mental health is a thing. It’s important.
We are so far off the track. Thank you all so much for being a part of this. Thank you to our listeners. Thank you to our fans. Thank you to Star Wars. Thank you to Dave Filoni and all the important people. Good night, moon. Stay classy, New York City. And we play basketball — we’re here to win them all — we are the New York Knicks.
Erin
Rotta the Hutt has won. He’s now free to die.
