Matthew
Welcome to this episode of the Star Wars Generations Podcast. I’m Matthew, your host. Erin can’t be here, but back from Japan, back from documenting what’s happening on the streets of Minnesota, back from so many things, is Alex, our other co-host who just hasn’t been here for a little while. Alex, how are we doing today?
Alex
Definitely refreshed from my trip to Japan and ready to talk about all things Star Wars.
Matthew
Well, good, because we have such a happy, shiny — like clones living their best lives — kind of set of episodes today. Erin and I have been talking about how we’ve been covering some dark episodes, but today we’re talking about some of the darkest episodes of The Clone Wars. And I think they’re among some of the best, especially in getting into the issues that we’ve talked a lot about in terms of what is the problem with the Clone Wars, and how there are major ethical issues about the life of the clones, the role of the Jedi, and how this is a part of the dark side growing in strength. So we’re going to get into that. Let me give a quick summary of the Umbara arc.
Please fill in with things I get wrong. We’re probably going to get the names of some of the individual clones wrong at various points. Erin would be the one to make sure we’re totally on track with that.
Alex
I tried to do some quick checking on that. There are too many names going on.
Matthew
Okay, I think we’re going to get the big ones right though. So we start by learning about this planet called Umbara, where the Republic needs to drive out the Separatists. The people there are called the Shadow People. Pointedly, there are some droids, but mostly we are fighting other sentient beings, which we know hasn’t happened much. We’ve talked about what that means. So Anakin is leading the clones — the 501st — on this planet. And then a new character shows up, a Jedi named Pong Krell.
He’s a Besalisk. It’s not a race that I think we’ve seen before — kind of very tall, a lot taller than the clones, kind of amphibian, frog-like, lizard-like looking — but clearly a Jedi and a general. And he says, “Anakin, you are needed back at headquarters. The Jedi on Coruscant need to talk to you. I’m taking over this mission.” And Anakin is obviously hesitant, but agrees to go. Some of the troopers are a little hesitant, but Rex says, “Look, the Jedi command us, and it’s going to be great.”
But it quickly turns out to not be so great. Pong definitely wants to be a lot harsher on the clones than Anakin was. For one thing, he almost never uses their names — he uses their designations. So like everyone calls Fives “Fives,” but he says “CT-5555.” Which just seems insane to me. It’s a power move, though, because he clearly thinks the clones are inferior. He thinks they’re being spoiled too much. He wants to treat them like droids. And so he starts ordering them into battle in ways that are much more straightforward, not as tactical. He sees the clones clearly as an expendable resource — if 20% of them die accomplishing the mission when there’s another way where only 10% would die, well, 20% is fine. And very much unlike Anakin, and to the consternation of the clones, he doesn’t lead from the front. He’s not using his Jedi powers on the battlefield. He is staying back to observe because, as he pretty clearly states, he is not expendable the way they are.
So they have some difficult fights. The fighting is particularly brutal against the Shadow People of Umbara. And I think very significantly — and we’ll talk about why in a bit — we never meet the people they’re there to rescue, or who are the — it really feels like an invasion. We’re being told the Republic are the good guys, but it doesn’t look that way clearly, except that the Umbarans are made to look scary and alien and different. And so, I guess it’s okay.
Alex
So we continue to relate to the modern day, Matthew.
Matthew
Yep. So a couple of the clones are pushing back against Krell, especially Fives and another one named Hard Case. And there’s another guy very helpfully named Dogma, who clearly just wants to follow the exact letter of the law — the Jedi are always right, the general is always right, we have to follow orders. And Rex seems to be unhappy but also trying to stay above it. There start to be little acts of rebellion against Krell. There’s the possibility to steal some fighter ships from the Umbarans and use them against the tanks that are really hard to destroy. And at one point the clones steal some of them to get back at Krell — and Krell is definitely not impressed. Then for a later part of the mission, Krell wants them to make a direct assault. They suggest using the fighters to do a lot of damage instead. Krell specifically forbids it.
There’s a moment where Hard Case and Fives and one other — Jesse? Thank you — Jesse is also a key part of it. They steal those fighters and use them for a big attack. Dogma and another clone want to turn them in. Rex is clearly upset that they’re doing this — or rather, upset in the sense of “what are you guys doing? This is what you should be doing” — but he steps aside to let them go. And when Dogma is going to go talk to the general and turn them in, Rex asks Dogma to tell him first, and then Rex will tell the general. And Dogma says, “I guess I don’t have to do it,” and goes back. The mission is successful, they win the battle — but Krell is still very upset that they disobeyed his orders, and he subjects the clones to summary execution. Which I have real trouble believing would be the law in a Republic with the Jedi so involved, but that’s what they claim. Maybe it’s a special rule for clones.
Alex
But the clones didn’t follow orders.
Matthew
Certainly Krell is not saying, “Let’s wait till we’re back on Coruscant and go through a whole process.” He’s saying he’s going to do this right now. And this is when Rex starts to really push back against him. Now, Fives and Hard Case — and I’m sorry, during that mission, Hard Case was called that because he’s always kind of trying to jump into trouble, always jumping into combat and finding the biggest explosions. They’re trapped, and he sacrifices himself to take out the reactor and destroy the ship they’re trying to destroy. Big mission success. But Jesse and Fives are back and about to be executed. Rex is arguing against it, but eventually Rex kind of lets it go forward — and we’ll talk about why. Dogma is the one giving the orders, but the soldiers behind him all intentionally miss. Dogma gets upset, and then Rex jumps in: “No, this is not going to work. We can’t do it this way.”
Then there’s another attack, and Krell is like, “We’ll finish this later.” Krell then orders the troopers on one more attack run, which they don’t really understand. And on that run, it turns out they’re actually attacking other clones. In a really heartbreaking scene, Rex realizes he’s shooting other clones — he pulls off his helmet, pulls off their helmet, trying to show both sides: “Hey, we’re clones. We’re not supposed to be fighting each other.”
Alex
And Krell specifically told the troopers the enemy was disguising themselves as clones. So he had pitted both sides against each other intentionally.
Matthew
Exactly. And at this point we find out that Krell is not only a bad general, not only a bloodthirsty general who doesn’t treat the clones the way he should — he is full-on gone to the dark side. He is intentionally sabotaging these things because he has foreseen that the Republic is going to fall. He has foreseen a new order rising, and he wants to make himself a part of that. He plans to go become Dooku’s next apprentice.
This is obviously something the clones are all horrified by. They try to fight him, he kills a bunch of them, they manage to stun him — and then they’re going to execute him. Rex is going to shoot him. Rex can’t bring himself to do it. And Dogma does it. Because Dogma is just so horrified that, kind of like someone who was so brittle that when pressure comes, they break. So, a nice light story about the clones. What do you think?
Alex
It’s insane. But real quick — Matthew, I just realized today that when I looked up the Besalisk, we have seen one other member of this species in all of Star Wars, and it is Dexter — the guy who runs the diner in Episode II. They are just polar opposites. I couldn’t even imagine it. And that is where the species comes from.
Matthew
I think that’s part of the point — because we have this lovable, huggable, “aw shucks” kind of guy as the other one from this species, we give Krell a little more credit before it goes too far.
Alex
Yeah. But to the point of the episodes — I remember as a kid watching these and thinking, this is so disturbing. I almost didn’t want to watch it because it was so intense. But as I got older, I was like, wait, this is one of the best arcs in the entire series, because it really gets to the heart of this war. Why are we fighting this war? I mean, first of all, in my opinion, these Shadow Soldiers very much represent the people of countries in the world that have resources that bigger countries want — and we’re kind of seeing something similar to what’s happening now. The Republic is supposed to be the good guys, in quotes. But they are really doing this for their own use. The Umbarans are fighting against the clones. The Umbarans don’t want to be part of the Republic. The Republic is like, “You have no choice — we need you for our supply route or whatever.” So it’s very unsettling from the get-go.
And I think it was very intelligent to start the three-episode arc off with Anakin as the Jedi in charge, because first of all, we all know the 501st, but Anakin is the most compassionate of all the Jedi generals. You really see how the clones can be treated at their best. And then Krell is just the polar opposite. And it just gets worse and worse. And at one point, Krell even remarks at the end, “You guys all just went with it. I kept getting more and more intense, and you just kept going with it.” A lot of people, like Dogma, just followed orders blindly. And it just speaks to the insane order that Palpatine has kind of created behind the scenes to orchestrate this war — where the clones are following orders blindly and the Jedi are enforcing this role where every choice they make affects the clones. It speaks to almost every ethical issue within the war, all in three episodes. I think it’s spectacular.
Matthew
You’re right. And so many of them, as we often talk about, are issues that are very real to life. You talked about why they’re there. I think this one, especially with the attack dropships coming in with the open doors, looks so much like the helicopters we’ve seen in so many Vietnam news reels and movies. And the fact that it’s all fought at night.
One thing I noticed is — it switches sometimes, but normally when it comes to laser blasts, one side fires green and one side fires red. And especially in space, often it’s like the Republic firing red. But the Umbarans fire blue. So it’s green and blue shooting against each other with no red anywhere, which to me was like — there’s no clear “these are the evil ones.” The Umbarans don’t want to do what the Republic wants, but they’re not clearly evil. They’re not dark side in that kind of way. And it’s the Republic general who’s leaning toward the dark side.
Alex
And it’s very clear the Umbarans use creatures on the planet. It’s very clear they’re in touch with the nature and animals of the planet. You can see they just care about where they live. And these are invaders in their world. I don’t know if they care if it’s Separatists or Republic — they just want to be left alone.
Matthew
Yeah. They basically have Sarlacs, for all intents and purposes — probably a little different since it’s more of a jungle creature than a desert creature.
Alex
Is that the big worm thing they use at one point? Wait, was that a machine? Yeah, I think that big thing was a machine.
Matthew
But there’s definitely a lot. There might have been a worm-like beast as well. Definitely the Sarlac-equivalent — whatever the jungle version is called.
Alex
That’s what takes out Krell at the end.
Matthew
Right — wait, so why did I think Dogma shot him? No, you’re right. Dogma does shoot him.
Alex
They use the creature to help capture Krell — it kind of knocks him out in the field. Then they bring him back and put him in a prison cell, and that’s where Dogma shoots him. Right.
Also — Dogma. Very on the nose. But as a kid I didn’t know any better. I was like, “Dogma, funny name.” And then you’re an adult and you’re like, oh my God, way to hit it over the head. Same thing as Darth Vader — “Dark Father.” Come on.
Matthew
I mean, they all kind of are. Like Hard Case and, you know, Cut. And honestly, Heavy. What is Rex? Rex is wonderful — he is loyal, he is supportive. He is always at his master’s side. He’s just such a good boy, you know.
But anyway. So yeah. I think part of what I love about it is that we’ve talked before about how one of Anakin’s problems is that he’s too sentimental, too connected to the clones, and how that gets him into trouble, because as a leader and general, sometimes you have to make hard choices — and that’s one of the terrible things about war. And that’s one reason why I think war is pretty terrible. But it’s part of it.
I think at first, before we learn about the dark side angle — Krell is a great representative of the other side of that. “I just have to win the war, and so I’m going to look at my army as though they’re pieces on a game board. I’m not going to think about those people. I’m going to call them clones to separate them from people.” And to me, it’s a really chilling look at — if a lot of what this whole show is about is how this war affected the Jedi and drove them to a place where they couldn’t see the dark side rising — Krell is the extreme example of that.
Alex
And I mean, at the end of the day, if Krell did foresee the fall, he was right. He obviously takes it to an extreme, but he’s almost making a point: “You all will follow orders blindly, and that can be used against you.” It’s almost very dark foreshadowing to how the war evolves and eventually how the Jedi are all wiped out.
Matthew
Right. And at this point, the inhibitor chips had not yet been introduced into the canon.
Alex
Yeah, so at this point you’re like, oh — they would just follow any order blindly. No wonder.
Matthew
So yeah, I think it is good foreshadowing of that. And this gets into my biggest complaint about these episodes. I think they have the same problem that Attack of the Clones does — one of the problems, anyway — which is that the story comes right up to the edge of a really brilliant character moment and then gets scared and backs off. Because to me, the interesting story is always going to be the person who serves the dark side without realizing it. The person who has allowed their fear to turn to anger, their anger to turn to hate, hate to suffering, and so on.
In the same way I was really disappointed when Dooku turned out to be working with Sidious the whole time — I think that story is so much better if Dooku honestly believes everything he’s saying, but the Jedi can’t see that, can’t see that he’s making legitimate complaints, so they go to war with him, and that drives him into the arms of Sidious — I wanted Krell to be someone who genuinely believes in the Jedi, genuinely wants the war to end, and has come to believe, because of the way that war corrupts people and because the power of being a general leads people toward the dark side — it’s why Jedi shouldn’t be generals — that that’s where he is. He’s falling to the dark side. Maybe even by the last episode, he’s going, “Screw it, I should just go find Dooku or whatever.” But instead we get the reveal that all along he was never trying to actually win the war — he was always trying to sabotage the clones as a way to buy his way into Dooku’s loyalty, and to show just how evil he is. I found that really disappointing. A bit of a chickening out.
Alex
I get you. I’m in a similar boat, though maybe not as harsh about it. I feel like they introduced a Krell who’s already a little too far down the rabbit hole. I would be more interested in Krell a year ago, when he was just starting to get disillusioned. At this point he’s disillusioned and power-hungry and giving himself over to the dark side — it keeps things clean-cut, like there’s no middle area, when there obviously is a middle area. And you’re right — characters like Obi-Wan have reservations, but always end up sticking to the one good side. Luke has reservations. I think Luke’s the closest we get to gray, and even then it’s pretty quick. We never really get a true grayness, except for maybe Ahsoka.
Matthew
I think The Acolyte gives us a lot of that, actually. That’s a good point. I always said part of why I like Asajj Ventress and Ahsoka together is that I feel like they’re both coming into the gray from the light and dark sides respectively.
Alex
Yeah. And I think the gray is just an interesting realm to dive into. But I don’t want to digress too much. I agree that when the clones are coming at each other, it is a powerful moment — this is so dark, this is a kid show and it is so dark. This is the worst nightmare of any person — killing your own friends, your own brothers — and you’re doing it because you followed orders blindly. And it kind of wakes up some of the nature of the clones to question what’s going on. I think it marks Rex’s character development.
But I also think that the order came from a person who had this illusion — or rather, had lost it. Someone who is saying, “You are all beneath me, you are nothing, I am more powerful, I should be more powerful.” And it was just — you go from gray, to dark-side-ish, to full Sith. Yeah.
Matthew
Once that happens, he is clearly no longer someone who means well but is embracing something terrible — he’s been corrupted.
And I’ll say, the first time I watched this to record an episode on it, I had forgotten about the ending and I got really upset. This time when I watched it, I still remembered it and I think I was able to enjoy it a lot more. I still think, even with that ending, this is a fantastic set of episodes that raises some fantastic questions. I just wish they’d been willing to go that extra step.
Alex
Yeah. And I think the episodes have a ton going for them. But I agree that one more step would have been really nice, especially because I’m not sure we ever see or hear from the Umbarans again. It was very powerful, very shocking — probably one of the most shocking moments in all of The Clone Wars.
But before that, the clones standing up for themselves, starting to learn how to think freely, fighting back against orders, fighting within themselves — I think it kind of got the point across that when we get to the point where Krell is crossing the line, we were almost already past the line. We already had the general vibe and sense of this. Hard Case sacrificed himself. There was already death. I think if the culmination had been the clones choosing not to execute their brothers and then going to fight Krell right then and there, I would have said, “Great.” I’m not missing anything in this episode. So the Krell-pitting-clones-against-each-other moment felt like it was added for shock value. And it did shock me. It is powerful. I do like that it’s there. But in the grand scheme of the narrative, I could do without it.
Matthew
So let’s talk about some of the individual clones and the journeys they go through, because I think one of the most interesting is Rex. Rex has a very interesting place in this arc — he wants to continue believing in the chain of command while still questioning Krell. A couple of times he shows Krell public support and then in private questions him and tries to push back somewhat. And clearly he’s very troubled by what Krell is doing. He doesn’t think the soldiers should be executed. But he is standing next to Dogma, and I kept waiting for him to jump in and stop it. But Dogma says “Ready, aim, fire” — and Rex doesn’t do anything.
I think the easy reading is to believe that Rex knew none of those soldiers were going to take the shot. But it’s very hard to claim that every single one of them agreed to that in advance without any on-camera coordination.
Alex
And Rex is watching from a tower at that point, so he has the ability to stop it on the ground in that moment.
Matthew
Yeah. I kind of feel like Rex was going to let it happen — not because he was happy about it, but because he was going to follow orders. Good soldiers follow orders.
Alex
Yeah. And I think this is such a big arc for Rex. Before this, he follows orders, whether because he trusted Anakin so much and Anakin was always looking out for his troops’ best interests, or because Rex is just a soldier who follows orders at the end of the day. But after this, in every episode involving Rex, you see him question more. He seems more personable, more himself. You really get to know him better because Rex is not willing to follow orders blindly anymore — because when you follow orders blindly, this is what happens. I think this was a major turning point for him, because he did make the wrong choice here.
He made this big speech of “No, this is wrong” after the shots were missed. But Rex was going to let his best friend die. It just didn’t sit right with me. And I think Rex learned from that and probably had to take a hard look in the mirror. It made him a better person and soldier.
Matthew
I think moving forward, yeah. And I understand why it happened — a lot of it comes down to how the production worked. But here is where I really wish they had released these episodes in chronological order, because I think it would be much clearer to see Rex right after Umbara and how different he is. They’ve sketched it out, but it’s hard to really know exactly how hard we were going to go in this episode. And two years earlier, how Rex is written in the time after Umbara shows how different he is. But I definitely think you’re right that we get more of that from Rex in later episodes — and maybe even some episodes that came before this one but are later chronologically.
Because I think this has to be a real turning point. For me, more than anything, this is a moment about loyalty toward individuals versus loyalty toward institutions. Because Anakin — no matter what else you say about him — has earned the loyalty of the clones. He’s always willing to take whatever risks he asks of them, always leading from the front, always saying, “I’m going to listen to you, I’ll let you try to talk me out of things,” and always saying, “If I can, I’m only going to put you in as much danger as I absolutely have to.”
And I think to some extent Rex, not having experienced any other Jedi really except Ahsoka — who’s kind of the same — would say, “Okay, that’s what I expect of a Jedi.”
Alex
Yeah. And even Obi-Wan, while he doesn’t care quite as much as Anakin, is very much like, “I am a good person. I would do what I can to protect you.”
Matthew
Yeah. Some of the Jedi are a little meaner and some aren’t as personable. But none of them have been quite this bad. And for Rex especially — with Anakin as his primary reference — there’s that sense of, “Anakin always knew what was right, even if sometimes I didn’t see it, so I’m going to keep trusting this kind of leader.” In many ways that’s the trap. I wish Rex had found his line before the execution. I think it’s a little damning of him — not that it makes me hate his character, but it’s important to remember that he didn’t find his line before the execution. That’s the character Rex is, and it speaks to how indoctrinated he is.
There’s one point where he says something like, “I’m supposed to be loyal to the general — that’s what I believe, I believe in this general.” And I think it’s Fives, or maybe Jesse or Hard Case, but one of them says to him: “Is that what you believe, or is that what you’ve been genetically programmed to think?”
Alex
Which is the real question anymore. And Rex had met — I can’t remember the name — but the clone on that farm who had chosen to defect and leave. I think Rex has quite a few instances where he meets situations that make him question his own dogma.
Matthew
Yeah, like his own personal code. What are we fighting this war for? What is the point of this? Between the death of Fives and the farm and this arc, it’s like Anthony masterfully shows how Rex specifically was convinced to change his mind and really fight back against what the Republic had become.
Alex
Yeah, that is very true. And it also just foreshadows a lot of beautiful stuff for Fives that I don’t want to spoil.
Matthew
But oh my God, Fives, man.
Alex
Him coming to awareness before Rex that maybe they shouldn’t always be following the Jedi, and maybe people don’t have the best interest of the clones at heart — it’s just so heartbreaking.
Also — do you think Krell made up that Palpatine had asked for Anakin? Do you think Palpatine knew Krell was evil and set this up? Because the whole thing is that Krell shows up and it’s like, “You are needed back on Coruscant, urgently, by order of — ” obviously Palpatine at this point, but — do you think it’s Palpatine’s grand plan? Do you think Krell just saw an opportunity and took it?
Matthew
I absolutely think it was Palpatine’s grand plan — to create a situation for Anakin where his clones were harmed by someone who was going further than Anakin would have. I certainly don’t think Krell knew that Palpatine is Sidious. I don’t think Krell revealed himself to Sidious. I think Palpatine as Sidious had probably sensed the dark side in Krell, and that was part of why he wanted to send him. But I don’t think he realized how far gone Krell was, and I don’t think Krell was just sitting there going, “Mwahaha.”
Alex
That would make sense. So Palpatine more expected a result like — Krell would get more of Anakin’s troops killed, it would anger Anakin, it would push Anakin further down. But Palpatine got way more than he bargained for.
Matthew
Right. It would also leave the clones distrustful of the Jedi and thus help set up Order 66 in some ways. And yeah — because I think for Krell to have fabricated the whole thing, he talks to Obi-Wan a couple of times, and Obi-Wan would have been like, “Wait, why isn’t Anakin there? Yeah, there’s no significant reason.” And I think Anakin is so committed to the 501st that if there were a single reason to think maybe this order wasn’t legitimate, he would have figured it out.
Alex
Fast. No one did really question what Krell was doing either, at any point. I think Obi-Wan was involved in his own situation. But I think Krell was still a trusted Jedi during this entire thing. It is very interesting. It speaks to a lot of different political things and ethical conundrums.
But it’s kind of funny that Dogma — who we’d just never really seen and never see again — is the one who ends up putting Krell down in the end, because he just felt so used and betrayed. It’s almost that feeling of — I can’t get too political because of my job, but try to connect the dots — if a leader tells you, “I’m going to do this for you, we’re going to do this together, I have your best interests in mind,” and then turns his back on you, gets you killed, leaves you in prison, abandons you, screws you in some way — you feel like a fool. You feel embarrassed, like an idiot. “I trusted this person. I put my faith in them. And they did not have my best interests at heart. I was lied to. I feel betrayed.” And you could see on Dogma’s face that he was just processing: “I thought I was following the right thing. I thought I was doing the right thing. And this is what it led me to. You lied to me.” But he’s really mad at Krell. He’s really mad at himself. He’s mad at having chosen to believe in this.
And it makes the other clones question the war even more. It makes Fives really question the war. And it leads a lot of our characters down really interesting paths. If you think about where Rex ends up, where Jesse ends up, where Fives ends up — knowing the entire Clone Wars — it’s very interesting how their paths diverge from this point.
Matthew
I think we’re definitely going to hold on to that for a little while longer and talk about where that goes in future episodes.
Alex
Yeah. But last thing I’m going to say is just — one of my favorite things about this combined set of episodes is that everyone’s like, “Yeah, Palpatine sucks, Vader’s evil, Maul — oh yeah, everyone’s got their villain.” But when you ask a Clone Wars or Star Wars fan who the most evil character in all of Star Wars is, the first name that comes up is Pong freaking Krell. They’re like, “Pong Krell — that little — ” He is the most evil. No one forgives Pong Krell. People can make arguments for Anakin, people can make arguments for others. Like, “Oh, Maul is doing this, Dooku had this tragic backstory.” Pong Krell is just a bastard for no reason. Screw that guy.
Matthew
Leave my clones alone.
Yeah. I think it’s because the clones are so beloved. And this is — I think you’re totally right about where Dogma was coming from — they’re kind of children in a lot of ways. And I think this is something about why former soldiers are often so angry at the generals who led them into terrible things. You see that a lot in politics, from all political sides. There has to be so much trust for something like that to work. And a kind of corollary problem — we’ve definitely seen this in our own world — is that when you have authority figures betraying the trust of those who put everything in them, all of their peers assume they’re all trustworthy. So you never have anyone keeping an eye out. Like you said, Obi-Wan isn’t keeping an eye out to see if Krell is actually treating these clones right. He’s like, “Yeah, he’s a Jedi. He must be fine.” Kind of like, “Oh yeah, he’s a teacher, he must be fine. He’s a priest, he must be fine.”
Alex
It’s like when kids blindly trust people in authority — whether it’s police officers, priests, or just men in power. And we’ve seen men in power abuse that trust, abusing children through multiple sex scandals in the church, or police taking advantage of people or being violent toward them. It’s that very classic trope of: “I’m going to blindly trust you because you are my general. I am so young, so new. And you are supposed to be experienced, wise, sage-like. You’re a Jedi — you’re supposed to be the pinnacle, the best of us. And you do this.” And it’s just this devastating feeling of: if we can’t trust a Jedi, who can we trust? Yeah. And then we can’t trust each other either. God, these are dark episodes. Dark, dark episodes. Whoever says this is a kid’s show — go watch this.
Matthew
If I remember correctly, the Republic Commando books were written before this show was finished. And I think there are some books where they talk about clones and why they went along with Order 66 — yes, the chip, but also their bitterness with the Jedi. And I remember there being at least one work — I have no idea what it was offhand, so someone please remind me — where they talk about what happened with General Krell. They weren’t in the 501st, they were in a different unit, but they heard about it. And it’s part of the sense of, “Wait — are the Jedi really capable of what Palpatine said they were? Because we heard about Krell.”
Alex
Yeah, I remember this. It’s just more distrust. It is a genius addition to the lore of Star Wars to have this Krell character.
Matthew
Yeah. I think it’s a great addition. And we don’t know this for certain, but I think whether directly or because he engineered things knowing something like this would happen — that one of the generals would break — it is such the perfect thing for Palpatine to have set up. Taking that childlike, literal childlike trust that the clones have in the Jedi and then breaking it. Which is going to make it so much easier for him to further break it with Order 66.
So I’m looking forward to talking a lot more about that as we go forward with The Clone Wars. But we are now going to shift gears, because in a couple of weeks, Maul: Shadow Lord is going to be coming out, and we want to do some primers. So we’re going to do some stuff on where Maul has appeared in other media. We’re going to do a straight-up primer — if you haven’t seen every episode Maul has been in in animation, if you haven’t kept up with what’s happening with Maul at the time this show takes place, here’s everything you need to get fully up to speed. And then we’ll be doing week-by-week coverage — sometimes two a week — of Maul: Shadow Lord as it comes out. So please be excited for that. Check all of that out.
I’m going to thank myself and Alex. Thank you all so much for listening. We have spoken. Stay classy, Umbara.
