Pete Wright:
Hey everybody, it’s me, Pete.

Quick note before this one starts. We’re still on our summer break, still recharging, and while we’re out we’re running a few Revisits — episodes from the archive we think are worth another listen. If you missed my explanation on the last one, the name is a little tip of the hat to our friend Dr. Kurosh Dini and his idea of the visit: the practice of showing up to something on purpose, with a little curiosity instead of a lot of judgment. So that’s what we’re doing here. Coming back to visit a good one.

And this one felt right for the middle of summer, because it’s basically a permission slip.

It’s an episode Nikki and I did about celebrating what you actually get done — which, if you’ve got ADHD, is probably a lot more than you give yourself credit for. So much of how we talk to ourselves runs on deficit. It was too late, it wasn’t enough, it only happened by luck, and by the way, it’s probably your fault somehow. Nikki flips all of that on its head in this one, and we get into a simple little practice, the done list, that I still think about. Fair warning, she catches me dismissing my own wins about ninety seconds in, which sounds about right.

So wherever you are this summer, I hope this one lands. Give yourself a little credit. We’ll be back with new episodes soon. Thanks, as always, for being here, we appreciate your time, and your attention.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Taking Control, the ADHD Podcast on TruStory FM. I’m Pete Wright, and I’m here with Nikki Kinzer.

Nikki Kinzer:
Hello, everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.

Pete Wright:
Hello, Nikki Kinzer. I’m excited for the show today. It’s very inspirational. I didn’t know what you were talking about when you were inspired, as if struck by lightning for this conversation, but now I’m excited about it, and I’m ready to talk about celebrating what we do with our ADHD and what we accomplish. It’s going to be great.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.

Pete Wright:
And this is officially our second episode in the season. It’s a good way to kick in. If you are new to us, we invite you to head over to takecontroladhd.com to get to know us a little bit better. You can listen to the show right there on the website, or subscribe to the mailing list, and we will send you an email each time a new episode is released. You can find us on Facebook or Instagram or Pinterest or Bluesky at Take Control ADHD.

But to really connect with us, join the ADHD Discord community. It’s super easy to jump into the general community chat channel, totally free. Just visit takecontroladhd.com/discord to join in there. You’ll see all of our current open public channels. It’s a fantastic community.

If you’re looking for a little bit more, if the show has ever touched you or helped you understand your relationship with ADHD in a new way, we invite you to support the show directly through Patreon. Patreon is listener-supported podcasting. With a few dollars a month, you can help guarantee that we continue to grow the show, add new features, and invest more heavily in the community. And we would love you to do that at patreon.com/theadhdpodcast.

It’s a tough market out there for podcasters, and I am hearing so many podcasts that are normally ad-supported are deeply struggling. And I cannot say enough, from the bottom of my heart, how much we appreciate member support, because member support is stable support. It is support that keeps the show going, and we are not at the whims of the advertising market, which is finicky and persnickety and shrinking right now. It’s uncertain for a lot of shows. So I’m deeply grateful this fine January, as we drop this show, for all of your support. If you haven’t started supporting the show yet, now’s a great time. It means a lot. It really, really does. So thank you, everyone, for doing it. Head over to patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. Pretty, pretty please.

And now, let’s celebrate what we do. Nikki, where did this come from?

Nikki Kinzer:
I have no idea, because I really don’t know where this came from. When the inspiration hits, it hits, and you go with it. We were thinking about what we were going to talk about last week and how we were going to start the year, and this just felt like it was a great addition to what we talked about with breaking free from that try-harder trap, right? Like, let’s try less hard. Let’s not try harder. So I thought this week it would be great to really focus and appreciate what we do do. What we do do.

Pete Wright:
You said it.

Nikki Kinzer:
I said it.

Pete Wright:
People heard it. People said it.

Nikki Kinzer:
I’m expecting you to say something.

Pete Wright:
You heard it, everybody. It was there. The problem is I was coughing and I wasn’t quite ready, but we do do. You do do, Nikki?

Nikki Kinzer:
We need to appreciate what we do do.

Pete Wright:
We all do do.

Nikki Kinzer:
Oh God, we are silly. All right. But that is really what this show is about. It’s celebrating the effort and the courage and the perseverance to live with ADHD.

Pete Wright:
I love it. And what better time to think about that stuff than when we’re in the middle of stuff? Right now in our community, we’re in the middle of the declutter challenge. People are really taking control of their space, which is so exciting, thinking about putting that mindful approach to how they live in their skin and with their things and in their shelters. What a great time to focus on how we do live with ADHD in a positive way.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. So before we get to the positive, we probably need to talk a little bit about what’s going on, and why it is so important that we go into more of that positive outlook and appreciate and celebrate that effort. So this is what I know from working with a lot of ADHDers, from living with people with ADHD. ADHDers do not give themselves enough credit.

Pete Wright:
Yeah, because whatever we do, it’s always done from the perspective of deficit. It’s done too late, it’s done too little, it’s never quite enough.

Nikki Kinzer:
Not enough, right. They dismiss the good way too fast.

Pete Wright:
Mm-hmm.

Nikki Kinzer:
So something good might happen, but then there’s this “but.”

Pete Wright:
There’s always a “but.”

Nikki Kinzer:
There’s always a “but,” and there’s always an “it could have been better, it could have been different,” whatever. Or they don’t believe that it’s true.

Pete Wright:
No, no, no.

Nikki Kinzer:
Like it was just sort of a once-in-a-lifetime thing that this happened, and it’s never going to happen again.

Pete Wright:
Yeah, by dint of luck were we able to get XYZ done.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, absolutely. And definitely they’re their own worst critics. They’re harder on themselves than anyone will be on them.

Pete Wright:
Mm-hmm.

Nikki Kinzer:
They take the blame when no blame is even to be had.

Pete Wright:
Oh, right. This is actually my favorite one. This is the manufacturing-our-own-blame syndrome.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
It’s all the sorries.

Pete Wright:
The MOBS. Yeah. All the sorries.

Nikki Kinzer:
All the sorries.

Pete Wright:
It is. Like, it’s the thing. If you look around the room and you don’t see who to blame, it’s always you.

Nikki Kinzer:
It’s always you.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
And you’re going to say sorry even if you don’t even know what you’re sorry about.

Pete Wright:
And if you’re not Canadian.

Nikki Kinzer:
You’re going to assume — yeah, exactly.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
So expectations are always too high.

Pete Wright:
Expectations are neurotypical.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
Lots of “should” statements. They’re loud, all over the place.

Pete Wright:
Mm-hmm.

Nikki Kinzer:
Limiting beliefs are very, very strong. Those are the stories that we tell ourselves about who we think we are, what we can do, what we can’t do. Those keep playing over and over again in our mind.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
Perfectionism is something that people want, but it’s not real. So you’re trying for something that you’re really never going to get, because it’s not a real thing. And what is perfect? In whose terms? Who defines that, right?

Pete Wright:
Totally subjective.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. I do know that ADHD is not a character flaw. I know that it’s not your fault, and I know it’s real.

Pete Wright:
Which is sadly a controversial statement.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes. So what I did when I was thinking about this outline, and what we want the message to be — I flipped everything. So I am going to go through what we’re calling a change of mindset, and we’re going to flip the script. Instead of feeling like ADHDers do not give themselves enough credit, we are going to start to celebrate what you do, because it took time, it took effort, it’s not easy, and you got it done.

Pete Wright:
Make me feel good.

Nikki Kinzer:
What have you done today? It’s early in the morning, so what have you done today that you can say, I got this done, or I feel good about this?

Pete Wright:
I have done two things today that I’m — well, three things. I walked my dog. That’s always good.

Nikki Kinzer:
Love it.

Pete Wright:
It wasn’t raining. That set me up for a good day.

Nikki Kinzer:
A really good day, yeah.

Pete Wright:
There have been two tasks that I’ve been struggling with, that have been clogging tasks. Number one is writing a blog post about a new feature in Todoist, an experimental feature we’ve been talking about for a while. And I wrote that post. The second is to write my reflections piece, believe it or not, months late, for my own website, about Unapologetically ADHD, the book that we wrote together. So far we’ve put all of that stuff on takecontroladhd.com. I’ve never written anything on itsmepete.com, and I wanted to finally write that piece. I haven’t published it yet, but it’s done. And I’m very excited, because it’s been that thing that I’ve really been stuck on.

Nikki Kinzer:
Mm-hmm.

Pete Wright:
It’s possible that, besides this podcast, that’s all I’ve got for today. But that feels good.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, that’s okay. But look at what you just did. You dismissed it.

Pete Wright:
Yeah. Oh, I did. I totally did. God, I hate getting caught.

Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, you just got caught, my friend. We’re celebrating what you’ve done.

Pete Wright:
All right.

Nikki Kinzer:
And you know what I’ve done? I got up, and I wasn’t late, and I’m here. That’s all I’ve done. I just got up, I got ready for the day, and I went straight into my office, and here I am. I haven’t done any — see, I’m going to do it. I haven’t done anything productive. No, but that’s not true. I’m up, I’m ready for my day. That’s a success.

Pete Wright:
Yeah, that is a success.

Nikki Kinzer:
So it’s training your brain to stop and pause for a moment and not dismiss everything.

Pete Wright:
Man, how quickly, how habitually that happens. I’ve been thinking about ADHD and my reaction to it for 25 years, and it still sneaks up around the corner.

Nikki Kinzer:
It still sneaks up. So that’s really where — we dismiss the good way too fast. So now we need to pause for enough time to really recognize that, no, Pete got some really great stuff done today, and I’m ready for my day today. I’m ready to jump in, you know? We have to really recognize and know that what we are doing matters. It’s not about everything. It’s what we’re doing that matters.

So, okay. ADHDers are their own worst critics. To flip that, we need to know it’s okay to ask for help, and we need to advocate for what we need. It doesn’t mean that anything is wrong with you. It just means that the people around you need to be more flexible. They need to change. How about that?

Pete Wright:
Oh, I like that. Insofar as I like the spirit of it, I also recognize how hard it is to wait for other people to change.

Nikki Kinzer:
Right. And you know what? That’s not exactly what I’m asking, because you’re right — we’re not going to have control over other people changing. But the thought is —

Pete Wright:
But at least we recognize we don’t have to take responsibility for somebody else not changing.

Nikki Kinzer:
You don’t have to take the blame, which is the next thing, right? Just because you feel like someone is irritated with you because you talk too much — okay, well, they probably need to have some help with their patience, you know, whatever. You don’t necessarily have to take the blame right away. So that’s what we’re looking for. It goes back to when I told my daughter a long time ago that she was talking too loud, and she said, “You’re talking too quiet.”

Pete Wright:
Yeah, that’s pretty good.

Nikki Kinzer:
And I’m like, yeah, okay, fair enough. You know? So it’s just a different way of thinking. Taking the blame when no blame is to be had — so treating yourself the way you treat someone you love, using the same language. You wouldn’t automatically blame someone for something.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
So why are you automatically blaming yourself for the same thing? You wouldn’t tell your best friend, “Oh, well, this is your fault.” You wouldn’t say that, but yet you can say that to yourself. So we are practicing compassion, self-compassion. And pausing enough to be able to say, wait a minute, what’s the truth here? What’s really going on? And protecting yourself, protecting your peace.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
So resetting that automatic “this is my fault” button. We want to be more curious and look for more information before making assumptions, because we don’t know what may be true. And more likely than not, they’re not true.

Pete Wright:
Yeah. Somebody asked a question the other day that I thought was really interesting — I think I found it on Bluesky — that was, what percentage of what people tell themselves, or what people say, do you think they believe? Like, deep in their heart believe.

Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, wow. That’s a good question.

Pete Wright:
That’s a thoughtful question. When you personalize it and think, what do I believe about myself? What percentage of what I say do I actually believe about myself? And with ADHD, that answer is pretty low, because I come to you and say, well, I accomplished something and it’s really great. Do I really believe that? That’s part of taking ownership of your identity, of all of your blessings and the things that you’re frustrated with, being able to see it all. And it’s hard to do. To raise that percentage.

Nikki Kinzer:
All of this is hard to do, for sure.

Pete Wright:
Yeah, right.

Nikki Kinzer:
So when we talk about the expectations being too high — lowering your expectations does not mean that you don’t care. It doesn’t mean that you’re lazy. It doesn’t mean that you’re expecting less from yourself, or that your work ethic is low. None of that. It doesn’t mean any of that. Your expectations were too high for anyone. So being more realistic with your time and taking care of your mental health — I’m going to say “should” here, even though I hate that word — we want it to be your number one priority. So if you can feel better by focusing on what is being done, and not beat yourself up for the expectations that weren’t realistic anyway, that’s going to be better for your mental health. That’s going to be better for lowering your stress and anxiety. But it’s getting comfortable with that, which is the hard part.

Pete Wright:
For sure. Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
The limiting beliefs — this I learned from one of our past guests from a long time ago, when we talked about the adult chair. Remember that, a long time ago?

Pete Wright:
Yeah, Michelle Chalfant.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. Acknowledging that the limiting beliefs are there. They’re there to protect us from harm or from hurt. But then we can just politely ask them to leave. We’ve got this.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
Thanks. Thanks for showing up, but it’s all right.

Pete Wright:
Make that a practice, right?

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. Because they’re going to still show up.

Pete Wright:
Yep.

Nikki Kinzer:
Perfectionism — I like progress over perfection, always. That’s what we’re looking for, is progress. Whatever that is. It doesn’t have to be big. It can be small. It can be visiting the task.

Pete Wright:
Yeah, moving something, moving the ball down the field.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, for sure. And then when we’re talking about the last three points — ADHD is not a character fault, it’s not your fault, and it is real. I think ADHD is something that you come to terms with. It’s something you have, but it’s not who you are. You’re not a bad person. You embrace it, you accept it. None of it is easy, but certainly you get to live that life that you want to live, whatever that looks like for you. It’s part of who you are, but it’s not who you are in the sense of who you are as a person. You can be kind, you can be compassionate, and you can still be five minutes late.

Pete Wright:
Yeah, right. The end of the world is not nigh, right? It’s okay.

Nikki Kinzer:
If you lose your keys for the hundred-millionth time, it’s okay.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
You’re still a good dad. You’re still a good partner. You’re still whatever.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
So — that never happens in my home. That’s why I immediately went to “you’re still a good dad.”

Pete Wright:
No, right.

Nikki Kinzer:
Wink wink, Brad Kinzer. Wink wink. Love you, honey.

Pete Wright:
So I was thinking about some of the things that we talk about with ADHD as the challenges. Like you said, some of the bookmark items of ADHD — hyperfocus. Hyperfocus is a true double-edged sword. It can be channeled into bursts of intense concentration to accomplish a goal. But most of the time when we talk about it, we talk about it as this sort of unmetered, unregulated engine. When it happens, it happens, and it’s kind of out of your control. But if you do take a step back and say, look, I can channel my focus into something that leads to bursts of intense concentration, I can make a practice of being really thoughtful about my hyperfocus. And when it does work, it’s a thing worth celebrating. It’s a thing I can do that a lot of people can’t. They can’t sit there that long and just get something done. I know it doesn’t always work. I know sometimes it might work against me. But when it does work, I want to be ready to say thank you. I want to be ready to say thank you to it.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.

Pete Wright:
Same thing with creativity and innovation. When you’re growing up with ADHD, you’re distracted, you’re not on task, you’re doodling, you’re talking in class, whatever. But frankly, as an adult, that sort of thinking is exactly what you want to harness and be grateful for. It’s not distraction. It is out-of-the-box thinking. It’s making connections that others haven’t made yet. It’s being ready to write something great or create something fantastic, because it is new and novel. And I think it’s important to be thankful for that. Just because your house is a mess doesn’t mean you don’t get to be grateful for whatever creative burst got it there.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, right.

Pete Wright:
Same thing with adaptability. We have to be resilient and adaptable, and we talk about it like it is a curse. We have to adjust ourselves to a neuronormative world. And I would support saying, look, I can adapt to a neuronormative world. I have years and years of practice adapting to new situations and being resilient in ways that many of my peers and colleagues have not had to do. The idea is, I have practice doing a thing that’s hard. It’s time for me to turn around and say, look, I have a skill in doing a thing that’s hard.

Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely.

Pete Wright:
When I find something that I love, I am deeply passionate and enthusiastic about it, and I want to scream it from the rooftops. I was once called an amplifier of enthusiasm by a friend of mine in my fandom. It is a thing that we have in spades. When we love a thing, we can be infectious about it. And that’s not terrible. It’s not terrible to be a booster. Whether it’s a band or a movie or a podcast, it’s not a bad thing to share it with the world and be excited. It’s not a thing to be shamed.

We have — I think the research is still out on a direct connection, but I’ll tell you, based on my rigorous empirical research, that I feel like people with ADHD have a heightened sense of empathy and intuition. And what do we need more than empathy and intuition right now? People who see the humanity in others even when they can’t see it in themselves. That’s something we’ve got. We’ve got that in spades.

Nikki Kinzer:
I love that, yeah.

Pete Wright:
And I think it’s worth celebrating that stuff. That’s my list. That’s Pete’s top five of things that just feel right when we turn it around.

Nikki Kinzer:
That’s great. So I have a little bit of an exercise for people, if they’re willing to try it. At the end of the day, write your done list. This is not a new concept, but it may surprise you if you actually do it, because you’ll notice and see everything that you are doing. And it’s a really nice reminder that you are doing some great things in the world, for yourself, for friends, family, whatever it might be. For you — walking the dog. Your dog is going to be appreciative of that.

Pete Wright:
Yeah, done.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.

Pete Wright:
My carpet, because he’s not going to do do on it.

Nikki Kinzer:
Well, yeah, we hope not.

Pete Wright:
Do you see what I did there?

Nikki Kinzer:
I do see what you did there, yeah.

Pete Wright:
I brought it back to doo-doo. I do did that.

Nikki Kinzer:
It’s all good. Absolutely. Oh, and one of the things I was going to add about this done list is that nothing is too small, and resting counts.

Pete Wright:
Sure. Yeah, resting — I will add eating, resting, feeding yourself, taking care of yourself. All of that counts.

Nikki Kinzer:
Eating, yes. Downtime, all of that counts.

Pete Wright:
Do you know what I got in the mail?

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah?

Pete Wright:
I got a revitalizing eye mask. And I’m going to say the doTERRA revitalizing eye mask that you got in the mail counts.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.

Pete Wright:
That’s on the list.

Nikki Kinzer:
You’re going to use it, and then you’re going to come on the show and you’re going to have little — yeah, exactly.

Pete Wright:
My eyes are going to look so young.

Nikki Kinzer:
Or you’re going to come on the show with the eye mask.

Pete Wright:
Or a horrific allergy.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, and it’s all red and puffy. But hopefully that’s not the case.

Pete Wright:
It all counts. It all counts.

Nikki Kinzer:
Good stuff.

Pete Wright:
That’s it. Happy, happy day, everybody. Go out and get some stuff done, no matter how small, and feel good about it. I hope you feel like there’s something inspirational about just going through the process. We sure appreciate you and all that you do do, to download and listen to this show. Thanks for your time and your attention. Don’t forget, if you have something to contribute to the conversation, head over to the Show Talk channel in the Discord server. You can join us right there by becoming a supporting member at the Deluxe level or better. On behalf of Nikki Kinzer, I’m Pete Wright, and we’ll see you right back here next week on Taking Control, the ADHD Podcast.