Mandy Kaplan:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Make Me a Nerd. I’m Mandy Kaplan, a mainstream mom whose mission it is to explore the world of nerd culture that I’ve been missing out on and moderately afraid of my whole life. If you’re new to the podcast, here’s how this works. I, a total noob, have never watched or tried any of these awesome sci-fi fantasy cool things. I have a passionate super fan come on and try to recruit me to the dark side, or the light side, or the wrong side, or the right side. I don’t know all the terms yet.
Today, everybody’s favorite guest. She is the host of the most excellent 80s movie podcast and Gank That Drank, a Supernatural drinking game podcast. She is a master of improv in Mesa, Arizona. She is my friend and friend to us all, Krissy Lenz.
Krissy Lenz:
Hi Mandy, I’m so thrilled to be back again talking about another thing I love.
Mandy Kaplan:
This one feels way up there. Why didn’t you suggest this first when I said, would you be on my podcast? How come you didn’t say Firefly?
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, because I gotta start with Supernatural. That’s what owns my heart. But yes, Firefly is a big one. And honestly, I’m very curious because I wasn’t sure you’d like it. So that’s why I haven’t suggested it before now, because it’s a little bit more violent than other things we’ve done.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, but you were sure I would like Labyrinth?
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, Labyrinth is great. I’m still gonna get you back on that one. I’m gonna win you over in the end.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, we have done a lot of these now, which makes me so happy because I just adore you. We have done Doctor Who.
Krissy Lenz:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
And you’re very good at curating it, giving me a little smattering of things so I understand different elements. We recently did Goonies because our souls needed it, and we did it.
Krissy Lenz:
Goonies. Never say die.
Mandy Kaplan:
What am I forgetting? And Labyrinth, I said.
Krissy Lenz:
Labyrinth, yes. Supernatural.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, Supernatural. Yep. All right.
Krissy Lenz:
This one was really hard because I wanted to curate episodes for you, but there are so few, it was really hard to not just say you gotta watch the whole series. So that’s why I went with the movie.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Well, let’s talk about Firefly the series before we talk about the movie. Because I did my research. I became a nerd. I did my research and I watched a documentary. So can you explain what happened with the series on Fox?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, so they got the series and the brilliant executives at the network decided to air it out of order. There is a two-hour pilot episode that introduces you to the world and does all this beautiful world building and character exploration and really puts you in this highly stylized world of a space western, and they did not air that first. They aired it further down the line. So they aired an episode called The Train Job, which is a great episode, but it’s like starting in the middle of something and being like, what is going on? Who are these people?
Mandy Kaplan:
I gave a train job under the bleachers in high school once. I don’t know what it means.
Well, in the documentary I watched called Done the Impossible, it’s made by the fans, but it really features everybody on the show. They talk so much about this. People tuned in because Joss Whedon, who everyone knew — I know him from Roseanne, but I’m old school. But then he did Buffy. Had he done others before Firefly?
Krissy Lenz:
I know Joss and love Joss from — he wrote Speed, the Keanu Reeves movie.
Mandy Kaplan:
The movie Speed with Keanu Reeves?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, I don’t know if he was the only writer, but he definitely did a pass on it. And Toy Story.
Mandy Kaplan:
He did? Oh, I didn’t know that.
Krissy Lenz:
So he, to me, was — and then of course Buffy is the big one. If you were a Buffy nerd, then you’re just like, well, we’ll follow Joss anywhere. And so that was what brought me to the series, because I wasn’t really a big Nathan Fillion head until Firefly. He’s in Buffy, but oh so briefly.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, he is.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh so briefly. And he’s a bad guy, so you don’t really fall in love with him the way you do.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. And if anybody listening is a Buffy head — I don’t think that’s the technical term — but if you love Buffy, I did an episode with Kyle Olson and Pete Wright about Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the TV show, which I had never seen because it was fantasy to me or whatever you would call it. And I’ve still never seen the movie. There’s something wrong with me. What was I doing?
Krissy Lenz:
It’s a great episode too. I listened to that episode and I loved it. I was all about it.
Mandy Kaplan:
Aw, thank you. So that’s Joss Whedon. So now he comes to Fox and he pitches a space western. And so everyone’s excited. He’s got this natural following. And they all tune in. And a lot of these Browncoats, which is the name of fans — a lot of them said, we didn’t understand what the hell we were watching.
Krissy Lenz:
Browncoats, baby. Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
There was no warm-up. There was no getting to know the characters. They were dropped into a world and they didn’t know what the hell was going on.
Krissy Lenz:
Yep. And then, no surprise, the series got cancelled. But people found it anyway and loved it anyway and fought really hard to keep it on the air, get it a second season, move it to a different network, put it on cable — they tried everything. And the support was really there. So finally they found a home to make a movie to sort of wrap up the story.
Mandy Kaplan:
I wonder, similar to Veronica Mars, if streamers had been bigger back then. Don’t you feel like Netflix or Hulu would have said, oh, what the hell? Give us ten more episodes.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, absolutely. I do.
Mandy Kaplan:
But this was before streamers.
Krissy Lenz:
Yes. It was back in the day for sure. And the fans are super fans. Do you know what Loot Crate is?
Mandy Kaplan:
No.
Krissy Lenz:
It’s this really cool mail order thing where you sign up for a Loot Crate, and every month they send you a curated box of goodies. So there’s a t-shirt and a toy and some home goods that are all nerdy stuff, and it’s all themed.
Mandy Kaplan:
But it’s not Firefly specific, it’s just —
Krissy Lenz:
They did a Firefly specific one and I subscribed to it. So I have so much Firefly junk around my house. It was so fun, but my subscription expired before I got the little Captain Mal doll, because they did little dolls. They call them Little Damn Heroes. Yeah, and they’re so cute.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh. So they made this movie, but they couldn’t call it Firefly. Do you want to tell the people why not?
Krissy Lenz:
No, you go ahead.
Mandy Kaplan:
Really? Fox wouldn’t give up the rights, so they called it something different. And Serenity — what is Serenity?
Krissy Lenz:
Serenity is the name of their ship, and it’s named after the big battle they fought, the Battle of Serenity, where they lost the war.
Mandy Kaplan:
It’s the ship? Okay. Right. I knew that. But you passed the test. Nice work. So that was one of my questions. But then I learned that they couldn’t get the rights to call it Firefly the movie. And this movie did very well in terms of Rotten Tomatoes — 82 and 91 percent. One of my first questions was gonna be, did the fans like it? And it seems like they did. Everyone was happy with this movie. People weren’t happy with the X-Files movie?
Krissy Lenz:
Oh yeah, people were not happy with the X-Files movie. And I think they are happier with the various reboots that have happened, but it never caught the fury that Serenity did.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. So it starts off feeling just like Ender’s Game, which I just read for the podcast. There’s a kid in captivity, they’re running tests on her, and it’s these vague, evil, governmental people. I don’t know how familiar you are with Ender’s Game. Did you read it?
Krissy Lenz:
Not super. I read it ages ago.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, but the author, Orson Scott Card, is a big homophobe and asshole. And so I was like, oh great, this is like Ender’s Game. And then Orson Scott Card is in the documentary talking about how much he loves Firefly and how it meant the world to him, and so I’m back to referencing that guy. Which upsets me.
But it feels at the beginning like a spy thriller. It doesn’t feel sci-fi or outer spacey.
Krissy Lenz:
It’s like an escape, almost like a heist. A person heist.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. And I’m just gonna go for it. Chiwetel Ejiofor.
Krissy Lenz:
Sure.
Mandy Kaplan:
I think I have that right. Well, I love him so much.
Krissy Lenz:
He is so great.
Mandy Kaplan:
So he adds an element of, oh, this is real. This is not just —
Krissy Lenz:
Gravitas, yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Got perfect words. He’s so evil and good and taking it so seriously.
Krissy Lenz:
And so civilized. And that’s the whole thing with the Alliance — they aim to be so civilized that they’re so freaking evil. And he’s just calm, cool, collected. He says to Mal, you can’t make me angry. Everybody says about him, he really believes in this, and he’s gonna fight until the end, because he believes in this better world that even he’s not welcome in. But he’s so wonderful in this. This was my introduction to him and I was just like, who is this magnetic creature? He’s so good. He’s so wonderful.
Mandy Kaplan:
I love him. And he was not in the series.
Krissy Lenz:
He was not in the series, no.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. So you call that a space western, which is probably perfect. But I couldn’t quite identify the tone of this. Because it’s funny and it seems to be winking at itself, but it’s incredibly violent and shocking and scary. So then I was like, oh, maybe it’s not supposed to be funny. How would you describe the tone?
Krissy Lenz:
Well, I hate to classify it this way, but I think it’s really a Joss Whedon specialty to create something that has elements of horror, elements of sci-fi, and — I think this was him being like, and also I’m gonna do western. You know, later he’d go on to be like, hey, did you know I can do musicals? I think he just blends things together and makes these delicious smoothies that are so unique.
Mandy Kaplan:
Great. We’re talking about Joss Whedon, and I want to ask you the big question. I can’t let these things just not go named. So let’s name it right after this.
So he’s cancelled.
Krissy Lenz:
He is cancelled. He is not involved in the Firefly reboot that’s happening.
Mandy Kaplan:
There’s a Firefly reboot happening?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, oh yes, Mandy. They’re doing an animated series. The whole original cast is back. It’s gonna take place between the events of the series and the events of the movie.
Mandy Kaplan:
So Tudyk is back to life.
Krissy Lenz:
So Tudyk gets to come back, Shepherd Book gets to come back, everyone’s coming back. Because Tudyk is my favorite.
Mandy Kaplan:
I love him so much.
Krissy Lenz:
I stan him so hard. I just think he’s a delightful human.
Mandy Kaplan:
He plays Wash, who’s the pilot. And at one point I started writing, does he never get to stand up in the show? And then literally the next scene he comes running in, and I was like, I just made that happen. You’re welcome, Alan Tudyk.
Krissy Lenz:
You wizarded it.
Mandy Kaplan:
I did. But let’s talk about why Joss Whedon is cancelled for a minute, and then we’re gonna do the very classic separating the art from the artist, and we’re gonna talk about how much you love Firefly and Serenity. I don’t know how to navigate these waters. It’s awful.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, he was really awful to the women of Buffy and Angel, the spin-off series. Treated them very poorly and made it a hostile work environment — especially Charisma Carpenter, who was the one who sort of spoke out and was like, hey, this happened to me and it was not cool.
Mandy Kaplan:
So what did he do?
Krissy Lenz:
And I’m finally gonna stand up and speak out and share my truth. The cast of Buffy and Angel were just like, yeah, we have to back this up and stand with Charisma Carpenter and say, we had bad experiences too.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. This was all after the fact.
Krissy Lenz:
All after the fact. A long time after the fact, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
I’m asking. Okay. And another sidebar, if I can see you over here for a minute. What happened? There was a Buffy revamp that’s not happening now.
Krissy Lenz:
It’s not happening now. And he was also not going to be involved with that. They had Sarah Michelle Gellar back and some of the original cast. But no, it’s not happening now. Sarah Michelle Gellar announced that it was gonna happen, and then also now that it is not. So I’m super bummed about that, because it was supposed to be a new world where, at the end of Buffy, all the slayers become activated, and it’s like, what is this new world like now, where she’s sort of the Giles in the situation? So I was super excited about it, but yeah, it’s not happening.
And he wasn’t gonna be involved in that either. But he is, I think, kindly giving his blessing for these stories to go on and continue for the fans.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, he’ll make money from them. It’s not necessarily just kindness.
Krissy Lenz:
Altruism, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
He knows he makes money. It’s interesting — and we won’t go too far down this road — but Louis CK is coming back. He’s got a big special on Netflix. So apparently there’s a statute of limitations on being a sexist pig, and then everyone just forgives and forgets and welcomes you back, apparently.
Krissy Lenz:
Listen, I would hate for someone to really feel remorse and reflect on what they did and become a better person and not have a path back. I think that’s important. But I’m not sure that’s what’s happening in the case of Louis CK. I think everyone was just like, whoa, we shouldn’t have cancelled him. He’s funny. And it’s like, okay. I don’t love it. And I think it’s kind of gross.
Mandy Kaplan:
Agreed. Now back to our regularly scheduled program. Because we’re talking about Serenity, and I just wanted to acknowledge all of that.
When I was thinking, is this a comedy, is this a spy thriller in space, I couldn’t figure it out. But I was thinking comedy. And then Nathan Fillion put that guy out of his misery without blinking — the Glenn Howerton.
Krissy Lenz:
Yep.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I was like, oh, no, not a comedy. It’s graphic. Or not graphic — they just don’t shy away from the stakes being life or death at all times in this world.
Krissy Lenz:
Right. And the character of Mal, who is one of my favorites, even though he’s a bit of a misogynist and kind of a —
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, es sí.
Krissy Lenz:
Not Nathan Fillion.
Mandy Kaplan:
No, no, no. The character Mal. Yeah.
Krissy Lenz:
The character Mal. The way he treats Inara and stuff is not great. Looking at it with my 45-year-old eyes — Young Me was just like, I love him. And now I’m like, mmm, you can’t change him, he’s got problems.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, I know he’s a major heartthrob and they keep giving him series. He’s always on a series. I think he’s charming, and I fell in love with him in the movie Waitress, Nathan Fillion. But his face is too big. I can’t go there romantically. It’s too flat and big. I’m sorry.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, that’s so funny.
Mandy Kaplan:
He’s a good actor. He’s charming, but —
Krissy Lenz:
He’s so charming, he’s so funny, and he is so good at conventions. He came to Phoenix Fan Fusion years ago. His panel — he was so funny and so charming and so kind and generous. And you just wanna be like, yeah, this is who we love. This is who we go all out for. My mom is a diehard Nathan Fillion girlie from Castle and now The Rookie. So we got a picture with him, and she was so delighted she couldn’t even say words. He welcomed us in, and he’s like, hi, what’s your name? And she was like — I was like, this is Darlene. He put his hand on her shoulder and she was just like —
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, well, in the documentary Done the Impossible, they rave about him. They are called Fillionaires, which I love. I love a play on words. And every person who’s ever met him at a convention is blown away by how kind and generous and friendly he is.
And I remember him on Big Bang Theory. Do you remember that? So he’s sitting in a cafe and they all walk in and they’re like, it’s Nathan Fillion, it’s Nathan Fillion, and he’s eating a salad. And they go over to him, and he’s like, no, I’m not. I know people think I am. I’m not Nathan Fillion. You can back away. And he plays himself as a dick. And knowing he’s got this reputation for being so nice makes me appreciate that even more.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah. Because he’s funny. And I think one of the things that brings me back to a fandom is that there has to be an element of comedy. If you’re gonna give me the violence and you’re gonna give me the horror and you’re gonna give me the big scares and the tough moments, give me the comedy too. Supernatural has that, Buffy has that, Firefly has that, and I think Serenity has that. You don’t get as much funny Alan Tudyk in the movie as you do in the show.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, okay.
Krissy Lenz:
But he’s a damn delight in the show. He’s so funny.
Mandy Kaplan:
He didn’t do much in the movie, which bums me out. Because I’m a huge fan.
This just also reminded me — while we were on Nathan Fillion — something I should do for the podcast is that musical, Dr. Horrible.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, I’m down. I’ll do it right now. I don’t even need to watch it.
Mandy Kaplan:
I’ve never — I think I tried to watch it and I thought, oh, this is weird. I don’t think this is for me. But now that I’m a nerd in training, I think I should do it.
Krissy Lenz:
It is weird. I’m a huge, huge fan. And I know Kyle is too.
Mandy Kaplan:
Cool. Hook us up.
Krissy Lenz:
I’ll talk about it for days.
Mandy Kaplan:
All right. Well, this movie to me plot-wise feels very much like some of the other things I’ve been watching, like Rogue One. Is that the heist one? Just things where it’s like, we have to do this thing to save the planet and save the kid, the girl. Plot-wise, nothing new and exciting for me, unless I’m missing something.
Krissy Lenz:
No, not really. I think it’s fairly straightforward. They have to protect River. Will they protect River? Should they protect River? What does she know? What’s hiding inside her mind? And they find this big secret that they decide to reveal to the ‘Verse. So I think it’s more about wrapping up the big questions of this series, although the series doesn’t bring up these huge questions — except for what is gonna happen to River and Simon, and what’s gonna happen to the crew because of River and Simon.
Mandy Kaplan:
And Summer Glau — am I saying that right? I think so. Again, I only know her from her appearance on Big Bang Theory.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, how funny.
Mandy Kaplan:
And she’s on a train, and they’re all like, oh my god, it’s Summer Glau. And they are beside themselves. And I get it. She is a badass.
Krissy Lenz:
She is so awesome.
Mandy Kaplan:
And she was doing her thing. She looks like the girl from The Ring with her hair all scraggly and scrawny.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, I even wrote down, how did they get her hair so stringy? Whose job — that was a person’s whole job, was just be like, nope, add more salt water or whatever they do.
Mandy Kaplan:
Spray her down again.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
She, I think, was about 30 when she made this. I was doing some math with her birthday. And she’s playing a child — I mean, a 17-year-old or something.
Krissy Lenz:
Seventeen, yep.
Mandy Kaplan:
And then they did a little action sequence. And I was like, ballerina, I can tell. I can tell. And sure enough, she’s an accomplished ballerina. And it pays off. They use her so well. She can suspend from the ceiling. I’m doing the impression so you can all hear it. Oh, now Krissy’s doing it.
Krissy Lenz:
We’re all suspending ourselves from the ceiling.
Mandy Kaplan:
This is so gripping. But when she does a roundhouse, it is art. Her fighting — and she does a lot of her own fighting, I looked up. She’s just stunning to watch, and a really good actress.
Krissy Lenz:
And she wears these little slip dresses and these huge combat boots. And I was just like, that’s the look for me. That’s the look I wanna go for. Make my hair that stringy. I wanna be Summer Glau.
Mandy Kaplan:
There’s this moment I love that exemplifies the humor in the show so well. So River says the word Miranda, and it seems to be a trigger, like a Manchurian Candidate trigger for her. Classy-ass reference.
Krissy Lenz:
Yes, it was.
Mandy Kaplan:
Her brother’s like, what does Miranda mean? Who’s Miranda? Am I talking to Miranda right now? And she gives him this look — like a teenage typical, fuck you. And it’s just such a lighthearted moment in what’s a very serious emotional scene. And that’s what I loved about Firefly or Serenity — they would go there, and let the air out, and then ratchet up the stakes again.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, I love — one of my favorite bits is when they’re all arguing in the kitchen about whether they should kick River and Simon off the boat. Mal says to Jayne, you wanna lead this boat? And he goes, yeah. And he goes, well, you can’t. And it’s this big serious scene, and there’s just this funny moment.
Mandy Kaplan:
They do it a lot. I think it’s Glenn Howerton says, well, shoot me if they take me. And so he raises his gun and aims — well, don’t shoot me first.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, Baldwin, Baldwin. Adam Baldwin, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, Jayne.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, Jayne.
Mandy Kaplan:
Sorry, I know I use actor names instead of character names.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, Jayne. And he’s like, yeah, don’t shoot me first.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. And there were more fun cameos and plot twists with those cameos that I want to talk about right after this.
Sarah Paulson can do no wrong, I’ll say it.
Krissy Lenz:
She just shows up out of nowhere, and you’re like, oh, this is a person of authority that I should listen to.
Mandy Kaplan:
And she’s a hologram, and she’s magnificent. She makes a little speech, and then she dies. She’s a wonderful actress. She’s not on the series.
Krissy Lenz:
No.
Mandy Kaplan:
So that was just something for this.
Krissy Lenz:
Just for this.
Mandy Kaplan:
And then somebody else I love who gets a fun plot twist is Krumholtz. David Krumholtz.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, yeah. Mr. Universe.
Mandy Kaplan:
Mr. Universe. So he’s only on the screen, right? They interact with him on screen, and he’s like, oh yeah, guys, I’ll help you out. Let me look that up. And he’s like an IT guy for them? Am I way off?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, he’s the IT guy of the ‘Verse. He’s the voice — the signal, right? You can’t stop the signal. He’s like the modern-day internet guy who’s gonna get the information out to the people.
Mandy Kaplan:
And then he dies. Chiwetel Ejiofor takes him out after he betrays the gang.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, he betrays our crew.
Mandy Kaplan:
And it’s a moment I didn’t expect. He communicates with them, and he’s like, all right, I’ll get you what you need. Stay tuned. And the screen goes dark, and he turns to Chiwetel Ejiofor and is like, so is that what you wanted me to say?
Krissy Lenz:
Give me my 30 coins or whatever, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
And then he dies.
Krissy Lenz:
He dies, yeah. But I love that he has his little companion doll, and she has that message for Mal at the end. And I was so frustrated when it plays for the bad guy as well. I was just like, no.
Mandy Kaplan:
Fun twists. Well, what was she? I’m not sure I understood that. She was a fembot sitting next to him. And then he had secretly left — he knew he was gonna die, so he left this message through her?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah. ‘Cause she’s like an internet thing too, so he could program her to leave a message for Mal.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. But she can’t distinguish who she’s talking to, so anybody who —
Krissy Lenz:
It’s probably motion activated, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yep. Like those damn toys that our kids had when they were little, and you’d walk in a room and something would be like, hi, let’s sing the ABCs, and it would scare the bejesus —
Krissy Lenz:
You’re like, no, stop singing to me, Eeyore.
Mandy Kaplan:
Demon.
Krissy Lenz:
Yep.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, Gina Torres is almost too gorgeous to be on screen.
Krissy Lenz:
She’s so wonderful. Her character is Zoe, Z-O-E. And that’s one of the reasons why we decided to spell Zoe’s name Zoe, Z-O-E, and not Z-O-E-Y. Because I was like, hey, that’s how they do it in Firefly. If it’s good enough for Firefly, it’s good enough for us. We’re not adding an IE, we’re not adding a Y, we’re just going Z-O-E.
Mandy Kaplan:
Is your husband also a Firefly fan?
Krissy Lenz:
He is. He doesn’t fan anything as hard as I do. But yes, he’s a Firefly guy.
Mandy Kaplan:
I did not connect those dots, because I didn’t catch a lot of character names. So everything I was thinking is, Tudyk and Torres — and they are a couple.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
How do they come to be a couple? Tell me.
Krissy Lenz:
You learn of it during the series. And gosh, that’s the episode I stopped on. I was even watching it last night after I watched the movie. I watched a little bit of the series, but before I fell asleep, I forgot watching that episode. But in the series they start out as a couple, and they’re a couple throughout. She really loves him, and they’re truly a committed couple.
There’s a really great episode where Mal and Wash both get captured, and she comes in, and the villain’s like, oh, very interesting. Yes, I’ll give you one of them, but only one of them. Who will you choose? And she goes, him. And she chooses her husband. She’s like, this one.
Mandy Kaplan:
So I have a pet peeve, and this is just my own personal opinion, with babes and honeys and sweethearts. And they do it a lot, those two.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh really? They do. Yeah. I’m guilty of that. Everyone to me is babe.
Mandy Kaplan:
Are you?
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh. I’m not. You’ve never called me babe.
Krissy Lenz:
Well, any moment —
Mandy Kaplan:
But yeah, I’m not a fan in real life, but I’m especially not a fan in fiction, because it’s like, do you get it? Do you get it? We’re a couple. In case you missed it, we’re a couple, because I call him honey and he calls me babe. And it just bothers me. It’s a little overkill in that area. But there’s nothing you can do about that.
Krissy Lenz:
No. And I like it on Zoe, because she’s so tough.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. And I read about her that she’s an accomplished singer, like an opera singer.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, is she?
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. Oh god, she’s crushworthy.
Krissy Lenz:
Wow, she can do anything.
Mandy Kaplan:
She’s really beautiful and just fun to watch.
Krissy Lenz:
She’s so great.
Mandy Kaplan:
Although underutilized in this movie, I thought.
Krissy Lenz:
Perhaps, but she’s great in the series. She has so much to do. She’s Mal’s go-to person. There’s wonderful scenes in the series where they talk about the war — the War of Independence — and Mal and Zoe fought together. They were soldiers together. That’s how they know each other. Those scenes are really good. The acting is impeccable.
Mandy Kaplan:
It really was. Although there was one — the young lady who has a crush on Simon —
Krissy Lenz:
Jewel Staite. Kaylee.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. I was not a fan.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh really? I love her. She’s on an episode of Supernatural too — one of my favorite episodes of Supernatural.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. I actually at some point was trying to look up, is she not human, and that’s why she talks this way? I found her stiff. I’m sorry.
Krissy Lenz:
You really fall in love with — and again, this is gonna be my answer for everything — but you really fall in love with her in the series. There’s a really fun episode, which would have been one of the ones that I recommend to you because it’s one of my favorites, where they go to a ball. They have to infiltrate a ball, and Mal takes Kaylee. And so she wears this fluffy pink dress that’s like a Bo Peep nightmare. But she loves it, and she feels so pretty.
She gets rejected by all the girls at the ball, and so she goes to talk to all the men, and they’re talking about spaceships. And she’s like, well, you don’t want to fly in a G23100, because those things are just the old G2250. And they all laugh and laugh. And you’re just like, I love her.
Mandy Kaplan:
Where would she get a ball gown in space?
Krissy Lenz:
They’re in a little town, a little civilized town in the outer — and she sees it in a shop window.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, and there’s a terrible moment that makes you hate Mal, where she’s like, oh wow, look at that. Man, if I had the money, I would buy that. And he’s like, what, you’d look like a sheep walking on its hind legs in something like that around the ship. And you’re just like, Mal, stop being so mean to Kaylee.
Mandy Kaplan:
Is it just him? That’s his humor? Or is he a dick, the character?
Krissy Lenz:
Ugh, Young Me would want to say it’s just his brusque exterior, I can change him. But 45-year-old me is like, yeah, he’s kind of a dick.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. I think that’s — I feel that too. That bad boy thing that we all were drawn to when we were younger, and now we know better.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah. The Han Solos of the world.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yep. I’m watching a show I love — sidebar — called Animal Control. It’s a sitcom on Fox. Joel McHale.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh yeah, with Joel McHale.
Mandy Kaplan:
And he does it better than anybody. You want to murder him at all times. And you also — I want to marry him. I just want to be in his orbit.
Krissy Lenz:
He’s got the market cornered on that personality type.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. And it’s the same as he did on Community, and I love it all.
Krissy Lenz:
Yep. He’s in Scream 7 playing a very different role. And I was like, what are you doing, Joel McHale? Where’s the roguish knave I’ve come to love?
Mandy Kaplan:
No, he was just an upstanding cop and dad and husband.
Krissy Lenz:
Yep. It was weird.
Mandy Kaplan:
I know, but it made me — I liked the casting, because it made me think, well, he’s gonna be one of the bad guys, right? It’s Joel McHale. Why would he take this role? But he was very handsome.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, he is very handsome.
Mandy Kaplan:
I have a crush.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, I like him. I loved him from The Soup. Did you ever watch The Soup?
Mandy Kaplan:
Of course, of course.
Krissy Lenz:
Okay, good. I was a huge Talk Soup fan back in the John Henson days.
Mandy Kaplan:
Greg Kinnear.
Krissy Lenz:
Greg Kinnear, of course.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, all of it. I always liked it.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, me too.
Mandy Kaplan:
He rebooted it. We’re getting really off on a tangent, but he rebooted it for Netflix during the pandemic. Joel McHale. So it’s called like The Joel McHale Show, but it’s Talk Soup again. It’s The Soup.
Krissy Lenz:
I love it. I love The Soup.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, they were funny.
Okay, so I have this thing about me that I think I’ve mentioned on the podcast — maybe with you, I know I’ve mentioned it with others. I like when main characters die.
Krissy Lenz:
No, we have not, but I feel the same. I hate it and I love it at the same time. I’m like, you gotta do it, or there’s no stakes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. Yes. And this did it. So Wash — Alan Tudyk — gets killed. And then I thought Simon got killed. And I was hella pleased that they went there, but then Simon actually makes it.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, he lives.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah. So I got half my wish. My weird, twisted, dark wish.
And then the big battle between the head of the Alliance, Chiwetel Ejiofor, and Nathan Fillion, really felt like Star Wars, A New Hope.
Krissy Lenz:
It really felt like Star Wars, didn’t it? Even the sets look like Star Wars.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. And they’re hanging and swinging. This is my nerdication on display, but I really recognized the homage there.
Krissy Lenz:
Yes, as did I. I even wrote that down. I was like, this is the end of Star Wars. Join me, and we will rule the galaxy together.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. And then — I’m at the end — but Nathan Fillion’s eye is so gnarly after that battle. They did such a good job with either CGI or makeup. They wouldn’t have had CGI for that when they made this movie, right?
Krissy Lenz:
I think it was probably like a contact lens, don’t you think?
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh god, it was so gross. The inside of his eye is all bloody. Oh god, it was a great effect, but it heebie-jeebied me out.
Krissy Lenz:
It was very gross. Yeah. It was gross.
Mandy Kaplan:
That’s our movie, Serenity. I also want to talk about the documentary that I told you about.
Krissy Lenz:
You did, yeah. I’d never seen it.
Mandy Kaplan:
I nerdicated you.
Krissy Lenz:
You sure did.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, before we do that, I want to tell everybody that Make Me a Nerd is a production of TruStory FM. Engineering by the peerless Pete Wright. My theme song is Wonderstruck by Jane and the Boy.
You can get me on Instagram at Mandy_Kaplan_Klavens, both with K’s, or on TikTok at MandyMiscast. If you are feeling supportive and you like what you’re hearing, please, please leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts and write a review in there, and I will give you a shout out on a future episode. If you’re feeling extra supportive, go to makemeanerd.com/join, and hitting that button will get you your episodes ad-free and early.
Krissy Lenz, where can everybody find you?
Krissy Lenz:
Oh boy. You can also find me on TruStory FM. Both The Most Excellent 80s Movies Podcast and Gank That Drank, a Supernatural drinking game podcast, are available there. They’re available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you happen to be in downtown Mesa, Arizona, please come see me at the Neighborhood Comedy Theater. I would love to make you laugh right in my face. And if you tell me you’re a Make Me a Nerd listener, I’ll buy you a drink at the Sacred Pint.
Mandy Kaplan:
What more could anybody ask for? A night of comedy, hanging out with you, free booze.
Krissy Lenz:
I know. Yep, it’s the total package.
Mandy Kaplan:
You are the total package.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, you are the total package, babe.
Mandy Kaplan:
Now I’m putting on my sexy voice. This is gonna get weird.
I really liked the movie. I liked everything I was reading about the movie, including — fun fact. Pete, play that sting.
Fun Fact:
This is a fun fact.
Mandy Kaplan:
A NASA Browncoat astronaut, Steven Swanson, took the Firefly and Serenity DVDs on Space Shuttle Atlantis STS-117’s mission in 2007.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh wow, I did not know this.
Mandy Kaplan:
Did you know this? It was up there. And it was added to the International Space Station as entertainment for the station’s crews.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh, that’s wonderful. They deserve it.
Mandy Kaplan:
I would imagine only a few things passed that bar.
Krissy Lenz:
Make it up there, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, I thought that was very, very cool. And so — the fans got Serenity to happen on some levels, and the fans made a documentary called Done the Impossible about that experience.
So they were at cons interviewing all of the actors and Joss Whedon and producers and the guy who composed the music. They got access to everybody to talk about how they made this movie. The movie hadn’t been filming yet. They were — this was like, you guys are getting to make a movie. Let’s talk about it.
And so I really admire that not only did they fight and fight until they got their movie, but then they made a movie about that fight.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, that’s really wonderful. It took so much ingenuity. And the part that I watched was so heartwarming, because these are just real people who are like, hey, don’t take that thing I love. Don’t let the politics of TV take away the thing I love. And they fought for it, man. They fought hard. They fought the Browncoats fight.
Mandy Kaplan:
So this is a real community. A real strong, loyal fan base. This goes — it’s cons, and a couple of the people that were interviewed met online in the message boards, fell in love, got married, just from being fans of Firefly. This is hardcore.
Krissy Lenz:
Oh yeah. And there’s so little of it. You watch it through a couple times and you’ve got it mostly memorized.
Mandy Kaplan:
Right. There’s not all of the canon that Star Wars or Star Trek has.
Krissy Lenz:
Right, exactly.
Mandy Kaplan:
Have you watched the show in its intended order? I’m assuming you have.
Krissy Lenz:
Yes, the DVDs — that’s how I watched it again and again until it was on streaming. But the DVDs are in the intended order.
Mandy Kaplan:
And how many times do you think you’ve watched the series? Because it’s only ten episodes, right?
Krissy Lenz:
Oh gosh, probably four or five all the way through. I’m rewatching it again now, and I fell asleep during my favorite episode last night. But it’s on Hulu now, so I’ll just put it on when I’m feeling nostalgic and watch a little bit of Firefly.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. They interview these people, and there’s a Browncoat couple. They’re very When Harry Met Sally, interrupting each other as interviewers. And at one point he says, and then they just — they cancelled it. And he stops talking, and the wife says, he gets very emotional when he talks about this. And at that point it was Christopher Guest movie time to me. It’s like, come on. I mean, I love some TV shows too, but it felt over the top. But it was totally sincere.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, it was genuine.
Mandy Kaplan:
Let’s talk about The Ballad of Joss by the Bedlam Bards. Did you get that far?
Krissy Lenz:
Oh my goodness. I did, I got that part, yeah. The Ballad of Joss.
Mandy Kaplan:
Pete, will you please play the clip I sent you of this song? Did this song gain traction? Is this something they wrote for the movie? Do you know anything about it?
Krissy Lenz:
So it is a — I guess you could call it a parody of a song they wrote for the series. There’s a song in the series where there’s an episode where they go to a planet where Jayne is the hero. And they sing this song — The Hero of Canton, A Man They Call Jayne. They have this whole song about Jayne. So they took that song and made it about Joss.
Mandy Kaplan:
I thought it was just fan fiction that fans wrote a song, and they somehow got it into this documentary. The Bedlam Bards — they look like ZZ Top, right?
Krissy Lenz:
They do, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Did they appear on the show singing the song, or they just wrote music for the show?
Krissy Lenz:
No, no, no.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay.
Krissy Lenz:
And I’m not sure they wrote the song for the show. It was probably the people for the show. I think they just parodied the song that was in the show.
Mandy Kaplan:
Okay. It’s a lot. God love him.
Krissy Lenz:
It’s a lot, yeah. It’s a whole lot. It’s a whole vibe.
Mandy Kaplan:
In this documentary, everyone comes back and gets interviewed and talks. Adam Baldwin hosts it.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Very much like Unsolved Mysteries, he walks in front of a terrible green screen, and he’s like, Firefly, a series from Fox. And you’re like, really? How low budget was this? Extremely is the answer.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
Only Summer Glau was missing, I thought. Oh, and I guess Simon.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah. I know he does conventions and stuff, so I’ve seen him appear at conventions when there have been other Firefly cast members available. A good friend of mine is a huge fan of Simon, and she got a picture with him at a Fan Fusion a few years ago. So I don’t think there was any reason for that, apart from availability.
And I know that — this is a fun fact — the reason that they killed Wash’s character is because Alan Tudyk couldn’t commit to sequels if the movie had gotten sequels. He couldn’t contractually say, yes, I’ll stay available to do sequels. So they were like, oh, okay, cool, cool, cool. We’ll just kill you, and then it won’t be a problem.
Mandy Kaplan:
But if there were sequels, he could do flashbacks.
Krissy Lenz:
Of course. I wouldn’t want it without Alan Tudyk.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yes. I don’t want anything without him.
Krissy Lenz:
So — yeah, put him in everything. Can he even just do the voice of a chicken in whatever movie you’re doing? Just get him in there somewhere.
Mandy Kaplan:
Yeah, he might be one of the richest men in the world. He does all the Disney. He’s just so talented.
Krissy Lenz:
He can do anything. And he’s so funny and kind. And he does a podcast with Nathan Fillion called Once We Were Spacemen. That’s about Firefly.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, I would assume it fits, the two of them together.
Krissy Lenz:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, God love them all.
Okay, my last question for you is, would you go to a Shindig?
Krissy Lenz:
Okay.
Mandy Kaplan:
Did you hear about this in the documentary? Did you get that far?
Krissy Lenz:
No, tell me about a Shindig. I would go, yes, is the answer.
Mandy Kaplan:
Oh, I love your eyes just bugged out a little bit. I love it. So Shindigs are when the Browncoats get together. And — I don’t know if I said this earlier — but it’s almost like a religion, how they feel about Firefly. When they get together, they’re called Shindigs. And they have them, I guess, all over the country, maybe all over the world. And it can be anything. We could all get together and play trivia, or watch through the series, or sometimes we just dance and play music and talk about our favorite parts. And they’re called Shindigs. And it happens in the documentary a lot — a lot of people end up going, oh, well, I met him at a Shindig. Oh yeah, I host Shindigs. And it becomes a thing.
Krissy Lenz:
I love it. Yes, I would go to a Shindig. Invite me to your Shindig if you’re out there and you’re throwing one. I would love to come. It sounds like super fun. And I know that a lot of conventions will have Browncoat parties. So I would consider that a Shindig, yeah.
Mandy Kaplan:
They’re probably called Shindigs.
Cannot thank you enough, Krissy Lenz, for yet again getting me to nerd out about something that was totally foreign to me.
Krissy Lenz:
Do you think you’ll check out the series?
Mandy Kaplan:
I might, yeah. I really liked it. And I think it’s the humor that would make me say, yeah, I’ll watch that.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah, the show is very funny.
Mandy Kaplan:
And full disclosure, if you said there are 12 seasons, then I would probably think, well, no, I don’t have the bandwidth.
Krissy Lenz:
Yeah. No, there’s one season.
Mandy Kaplan:
But — yeah, one season. And I really just genuinely liked all the performances, and the tone. And isn’t Christina Hendricks in it?
Krissy Lenz:
Yes.
Mandy Kaplan:
And I love her.
Krissy Lenz:
And she’s great. She’s great in it. She played such a fun character.
Mandy Kaplan:
So I think I’m gonna —
Krissy Lenz:
Yay.
Mandy Kaplan:
Woohoo! Mission accomplished.
Krissy Lenz:
We made you a nerd. Hey, hey.
Mandy Kaplan:
Who’s we? Are you hearing a lot of voices?
Krissy Lenz:
We — all of us collectively. The zeitgeist.
Mandy Kaplan:
Well, thank you. Thank you so, so much for coming back, and for being such an important part of my journey. I really always appreciate it, and I adore you. And everybody should listen to The Most Excellent 80s Movies Podcast and Gank That Drank, also on the TruStory FM platform.
Krissy Lenz:
Thank you so much for having me. It’s always my pleasure. And hey — Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog coming soon, right?
Mandy Kaplan:
All right. You got a deal.
